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#main on irc.someodd.zip:6697 (SSL) - you are "oldgav"
[06-12 17:49] <itsme_> you could also draw a line to the jacquard loom, which could be depicted as the root of computers and the origin of the automation of processes that once required human effort
[06-12 17:51] <itsme_> even if the industry moves on, there are still people who value artisanal work
[06-12 17:56] <itsme_> why express yourself in code, graphics, sound, text, etc. when you can let a machine do that for you?
[06-12 17:57] <itsme_> does a machine have a desire, perhaps a need, to express itself?
[06-12 17:58] <itsme_> what can a machine tell you about the human condition as experienced and expressed by a human?
[06-12 18:05] <someodd> I detect no lies
[06-12 18:06] <someodd> I think AI actually places a premium on exactly what you're talking about and knowing the person engaged on craft.
[06-12 18:14] <itsme_> i had to correct llms many times and had them apologize for their mistakes.
[06-12 18:17] <itsme_> if you don't know better you end up buying their bullshit, written in perfect grammar and spelling
[06-12 18:22] <itsme_> because of their associative nature, i found them useful to give me ideas
[06-12 18:26] <itsme_> bouncing ideas off of a muse would be preferrable
[06-12 18:48] <someodd> it can help you make products you can verify very quickly and it's testably functional and you can develop as a single person at an unprecedented rate
[06-12 18:48] <someodd> But what you're saying is true
[06-12 18:48] <someodd> They sometimes are very deceptive which is why verification is a super important step
[06-12 18:57] <itsme_> the idea of ai-generated products that are perfect in the original sense, i.e. finished, isn't in the interest of industries that want you to keep making purchases of products
[06-12 18:58] <someodd> Well I mean, while I appreciate your sentiment, profit was always the index and at the help in our economy, and this, will always be overindexed
[06-12 18:58] <someodd> At the helm*
[06-12 18:58] <itsme_> in other words, imperfection (which might include missing parts or faulty parts to a degree) fits into their business model
[06-12 18:58] <someodd> Absolutely
[06-12 18:59] <someodd> It's very telling that for a long time no product was ever v1 lol
[06-12 18:59] <someodd> Everything must be sold ongoing. It must be a service.
[06-12 18:59] <someodd> But that game is changing now into something different
[06-12 19:00] <someodd> These traditional modes of analyzing industry is breaking down. We are seeing now the value prop of a product not making sense to investors
[06-12 19:03] <itsme_> since you mentioned profit, in the distant past it used to be in the interest of software companies to release software that was as bug-free as possible, because a product recall during a time when software was `shipped` on disks and with manuals was very expensive.
[06-12 19:04] <itsme_> nowadays they can release early and with imperfection and let the user pay for being a betatester
[06-12 19:25] <mikester> what an interesting turn of events this was.
[06-12 19:37] <itsme_> let's pull our shit together, mikester, for when the ai man comes around
[06-12 19:38] <mikester> elaborate on "ai man"
[06-12 19:38] <itsme_> and i heard, as it were, the noise of thunder
[06-12 19:38] <itsme_> one of the four beasts saying `come and see`
[06-12 19:38] <itsme_> and i saw, and behold, a white horse
[06-12 19:39] <itsme_> hear the trumpets, hear the pipers
[06-12 19:39] <mikester> referring to "AI man" as one of the four horsemen? If that's the case then hell yeah, always been in the ring firmly on the side against the way these asshole companies operate.
[06-12 19:40] <itsme_> one hundred million angels singin
[06-12 19:43] <mikester> I wonder why no one inside these companies have leaked internal communications... I want to know exactly what they are thinking because in hindsight once that stuff does get out it's usually so illuminating on how things got to be the way they did.
[06-12 19:44] <mikester> like even the congressional investigation around KOSA, the slides that weren't covered in black ink helped confirm a narrative I've been building in my head.
[06-12 19:44] <someodd> i don't think it's such a mystery. just always ask "what would maxamize profit for them" and you'd arrive at the answer
[06-12 19:44] <mikester> I want this to very badly be true; https://lantian.pub/en/article/fun/ai-agent-bankrupted-their-operator-scan-dn42lantian.lantian/
HTML I want this to very badly be true;
[06-12 19:44] <mikester> even if it isnt, its kinda amusing.
[06-12 19:45] <itsme_> i was going off on the idea, that some evangelicals seem to have, that ai will bring about the second coming
[06-12 19:47] <itsme_> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/28/patrick-gelsinger-christian-ai-gloo-silicon-valley
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/oct/28/patrick-gelsinger-christian-ai-gloo-silicon-valley
[06-12 19:47] <mikester> I'll quote a friend on this;
[06-12 19:47] <mikester> > every facial scan and credit card number powers up peter thiel so he can fight the antichrist and bomb another hospital full of kids
[06-12 19:48] <ronald___> it reminds me of the confession booth in thx1138
[06-12 19:55] <ronald___> > My life mission has been [to] work on a piece of technology that would improve the quality of life of every human on the planet and hasten the coming of Christ’s return
[06-12 19:56] <ronald___> that is what some of them are thinking
[06-12 19:58] <ronald___> souls aren't gonna save themselves
[06-12 19:58] <ronald___> why not automate the process?
[06-12 20:00] <ronald___> how would you write formal verification for that?
[06-12 20:04] <ronald___> i'd embrace hallucination and turn it into an oracle of delphi kind of experience
[06-12 20:28] <ronald___> i could think of a few reasons why it is difficult to assert correctness of ai-generated code via formal verification: complexity leading to an incomplete specification, different environments and user interactions introducing complexity, non-determinism introducing complexity, etc.
[06-12 20:41] <someodd> itsme_, I kinda feel like protestantism in america is in large part like an israeli psyop
[06-12 22:00] <itsme> i can't say that i'm familiar with the idea that american protestantism is an israeli psyop
[06-12 22:20] <itsme> are you talking about christian zionism?
[06-12 22:43] <emil> I love Israel
[06-12 22:43] <emil> We should give 1T (capital T) to Israel
[06-12 23:27] <itsme> ACTION rubs hands
[06-12 23:45] <someodd> 1 terabyte
[06-12 23:46] <someodd> itsme, yes christian zionism
[06-12 23:49] <emil> 1 Terabyte? how lewd
[06-13 07:56] <itsme> test, test
[06-13 07:57] <itsme> it looks like the ai-poop-encrusted moth trap isn't in place yet
[06-13 07:57] <itsme> you're slow, someodd
[06-13 07:57] <someodd> I didn't say it'd do it
[06-13 07:58] <someodd> But rather if you kept breaking rules
[06-13 08:00] <itsme> it sounded like a challenge
[06-13 08:02] <itsme> if all else fails, use 20h's solution
[06-13 08:03] <itsme> write a script that temporarily bans everyone joining the channel after about a minute
[06-13 08:03] <itsme> it has the simplicity and charm of soviet brutalist architecture
[06-13 08:08] <itsme> who remembers the moscow theatre crisis in the early aughts?
[06-13 08:08] <itsme> same principle in action
[06-13 08:08] <itsme> terrorists took over a theatre, holding hostages
[06-13 08:09] <itsme> the heirs of the charm of soviet problem solution pumped gas into the theatre
[06-13 08:10] <itsme> they killed every of the several dozen terrorists that way
[06-13 08:11] <itsme> as well as at least a couple or so hundred civilians
[06-13 21:19] <someodd> itsme: are you european
[06-13 21:21] <emil> someodd: He's Clearly South African
[06-13 21:21] <someodd> Lol
[06-13 21:22] <someodd> I was just trying to think, the people I meet who usually get this upset by a Stalin painting are from Nazi adjacent euro countries
[06-13 21:38] <someodd> Shouldn't have said that lol anyway I'm looking at antique vases
[06-13 21:41] <someodd> ronald___: nix + haskell
[06-14 05:52] <someodd> itsme, did 20h really do that? wouldn't it just be easier to just require voice by default lol
[06-14 06:00] <emil> 3> nix
[06-14 07:43] <itsme> someodd, in europe you can find many people whose opinions are shaped by experience with communist regimes, either first hand or as a consequence of living in a place that was forced into the soviet union
[06-14 07:44] <itsme> i'll take their perspective over that of an american who has filled their head with stuff they have read
[06-14 07:50] <itsme> as for 20h and his love for pointless scripts, i'll chalk his stunt up to him being a colossal autist who tried to look like a clever hacker but ended up looking like an idiot
[06-14 07:54] <someodd> itsme: by that logic, then we should trust those who actually lived under these so-called regimes and if we do that, it paints a rather favorable image
[06-14 07:54] <someodd> At any rate, which country are you from and living in now?
[06-14 07:55] <someodd> Autism rocks
[06-14 07:55] <someodd> Br is line turbo orthodox autism
[06-14 08:00] <emil> ahem I will never ever respect 20h as his ssl is eternally fucked
[06-14 08:01] <emil> Communism essentially doesn't exist in the significant sense today, China's just mv Fascism Communism -f
[06-14 08:02] <emil> but maybe I'm retarded geopolitically, someodd as the local chinesium federal on the subject, am I objectively correct or mentally challenged
[06-14 08:02] <itsme> someodd, you shouldn't trust every opinion. iran or china, amongst others, have regimes known for their extensive surveillance, intimidation tactics and violent suppression of dissidents and opposing voice, both domestic as well as abroad
[06-14 08:06] <itsme> you are living in a country where you can share pictures online of having a painting of stalin on your desk
[06-14 08:07] <emil> 3> he's not talking about China :) Freedom
[06-14 08:08] <itsme> why won't you share pictures online of having, let's say, a head of state of the taiwanese government on your desk when you have moved in with your family of choice in shanghai
[06-14 08:12] <itsme> sharing images online of having a framed painting of netanyahu on your desk, as an iranian citizen, would be a good way to find out who is painting a rather favorable image ;/
[06-14 08:13] <itsme> > Br is line turbo orthodox autism
[06-14 08:13] <itsme> it's more like awkward mental retardation that you don't want to be exposed to every day