DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Sinclair Spectrum Vega Plus Console
HTML https://zxvegaplus.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Indiegogo Campaign Thoughts
*****************************************************
#Post#: 28--------------------------------------------------
Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Peterpotamux Date: November 12, 2016, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
When I first knew about this campaign, I was really excited
about the idea of playing again my favorites games, 30+ years
later. Of course I become a backer in minutes.
Weeks passed and my hope become surprise then angry when I
understood RCL was playing with my expectations.
Let's be realistic : RCL is not delivering. That shouldn't be a
problem as we know crowdfunding campaigns could take time and
face serious difficulties before becoming reality. Problem
starts when we realize RCL is baselining all their communication
in lies. Let's remember they were ready-for-production in april
2016. Bullshit. They asked backers for re-confirming shipping
details early october because shipping was inminent. Bullshit.
They announced launch party on october 20th. All bullshit.
Current message is your device will be under Xmas tree - to be
real RCL should start shipping in a maximum of 4 weeks - They
will not as they're not even able to provide a new
ready-for-production date (again, let's not forget it was
already anounced back in april!).
RCL is consistently raising excuses that are supossed to explain
why they're not delivering. Some can be puerile (remember
history of pictures and videos from Launch party - it was just
hilarious). They've also push back some pressure into backers
saying things like "stop your annoying questions if you want us
to progress". Current excuse is with "beta-testing". RCL is
using this as an explanation (WTF?) of delay. Does this mean RCL
didn't forecast testing sessions and this affects overall
timescales?!? When is this supposed to finish : 1 week? 2 weeks?
1 month? ... Does RCL have a plan or just navigating as the
amateurs they seem to be?
I don't blame whoever to be an amateur, but I do if they push
back any question with stupid answers (read Indiegogo forum -
some are hilarious) and consistently miscommunicating and
abusing their backers. I used to be a backer. Unhappy with
answers I had, I decided to google name of their company 'Retro
Computers Limited' to understand a bit better their background.
I found concerning reports about 2 key skilled directors leaving
the company in april 2016 (2 weeks after that RCL announced
'ready-for-production' ... LOL) and also record of some
financial doubtful behaviour of current managing directors. I
posted that in Indiegogo forum and less than 1h later my
comments were deleted and I was fired as a backer. After that,
I've been insulted via twitter.
Please notice I'm not the only backer to have been fired. Check
in the forum - If a backer push a bit too much for RCL, she/he
will disappear and comments will be deleted.
I saw people complaining about 'wrong communication'. I'm afraid
there's far more than that : RCL is not able to deliver the
device they committed (for whatever reason it's) and they've
decided to lie, to hide problems, give unrealistic excuses,
divert attention ('Look! We're going to WIRED!!), disregard
clear and valid questions ('when will you ship?'). When joining
a crowdfunding campaign I'm not only buying an asset, I'm also
supporting a team that is doing innovation. I'm not willing to
support this behaviour.
Last but not least : when fired as a backer, I asked a refund
obviously. I obtained partial refund only. I paid GBP 110 (I'm
abroad, not UK) and just got EUR 105 (GBP 90). I complained to
Indiegogo that just ignore the problem as they did before about
RCL behaviour. They're guilty of not caring their customers
(backers) when abused by RCL. Shame on Indiegogo.
Search #zxvegaofficial in twitter.
Good luck to those who decide to remain backers.
#Post#: 29--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Peeto Date: November 12, 2016, 10:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am worry, even it is well said by facts and without being
rude, it will be deleted as other posts.
#Post#: 32--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: milinks Date: November 12, 2016, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Peeto, I've contacted yourslef and others who have made
comments that have cuased concern. I would like for you and
others to read the Sticky on this thread, so that it can be know
that this forum should be solely about the Spectrum and the Vega
Plus, for people to share ideas. The politics etc is not my
concern, its solely about passionate Speccy fans having as place
to chat and share. Please read the Sticky, and if anyone has any
questions please PM me and I will reply ASAP. many thanks :)
#Post#: 149--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Jools Date: November 16, 2016, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Is this true, being 'fired' as a backer? Even in these
cirumstances that's a pretty poor thing to do. Pointless to as
it won't stop you owning a zxvega+ so long as it eventually
reaches the shops!
Has anyone else been fired?
I recommend seeking legal advice if Indiegogo has not refunded
the full amount.
#Post#: 171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: milinks Date: November 16, 2016, 7:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not that I'm any expert on crowdfunding campaigns, basically
I've been involved in 3, so I am definately no expert. To my
basic line of thought, as a backer you are still a "buyer"? so
one would expect that the same rules apply, in that you can
cancel ask for a refund etc. the most CONFUSING place I've ever
purchased from is the AliExpress website, which is similar to
ebay. I bought (well paid for it anyway) a GPD WIN console,
which incidentally was an Indiegogo campaign earlier this year.
They have this crazy thing where you can state how many days you
state before your order is cancelled. My seller dissappeared off
the face of the earth, their online store had no item, not
replying to me etc. So I got in touch (lmfao!) with the
Aliexpress "team" to try and get my money back. Long story
short, on the live help chat, they told me i had to have the
permission of the seller to cancel the order, as my delivery
date was still a month away. I explained my concern was having
no replies to numerous messages, and this store no longer
selling or in existence. I asked how can i get their permission
to cancel if they wont respond (bearing in mind Aliexpress had
allegedly contacted the store 4 times on my behalf). My wife was
in hysterics laughing at me, while Im smashing my keyboard up
after hgalf an hour of this live chat "help" i still havent got
my console OR my money. Most probably reading this and thinking
"what has this got to do with my problem?"... not a lot, but i
understand frustration... and I'm typing on a new keyboard now
:)
#Post#: 179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Jools Date: November 17, 2016, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is the low down from Indiegogo, all crowdfunding platforms
are different but they all have a similar perspective to the
perks aspect.
HTML https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526746-Will-I-get-my-Perk-
Perk is not a product that you are purchasing, there is no need
for a project even when funded to succeed and once funds are
released to a campaigner the relationship through the platform
(Indiegogo) and the backers (you and me) ends. We are backers of
something that may not happen, in that sense you are an
investor, more of an investment angel thant a venture
capitalist. I have experience with start-ups and venture captial
and angels. The concept is you get a return on your investment,
angels or backers in this sense are more focussed on the project
coming to fruition than the return on investment.
Perks work in this way, this is why perks are often just the end
product or subset of (zxvega+ or a book) for the retail cost as
a backer investment. Which is why it leads to confusion for
'consumers' in product buying mode. You are not buying anything,
you're getting a reward for helping it work, that reward is
often the same retail value as the product of the project.
How to trust a campaign...
HTML https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/526816-How-to-Evaluate-a-Campaign
The terms a campaigner signs up to...
HTML https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
Now, with all that you may ask yourself what stage is the
zxvega+ campaign. It's been moved to the 'InDemand' phase, which
means it met it's target (back in march) which means all funds
raised at that time have now been transferred to RCL, which
means the relationship is now with RCL and backers. And all
subsequent monies are being transferred in 4 week cycles.
From the terms on Indemand...
InDemand
A Campaign Owner whose Campaign meets its funding goal may elect
to continue raising funds after the Campaign ends by
participating in the InDemand program ("InDemand"). More details
about InDemand and how Campaign Owners can opt in can be found
in the InDemand FAQ. All Indiegogo fees and payment options will
remain the same; provided that, payment disbursements will be
made on a four (4) week cycle. All terms and conditions that
apply to Campaigns shall continue to apply once a Campaign
enters InDemand. Campaign Owners that have Perks in InDemand
will not link to or promote an alternative service or website
for contributions or pre-orders within their InDemand pages.
Indiegogo may remove a Campaign from InDemand if Perks have not
been fulfilled within three (3) months after the estimated
delivery date, or if the fulfillment of Perks is delayed
indefinitely.
More in InDemand from Indiegogo....
HTML https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204475898
The interesting part is that InDemand phase may be removed from
Indiegogo if perks have not been fulfilled 3 months after
estimated delivery date. So this means on the 31 Decemember
Indiegogo may move the campaing off InDemand status, but I would
expect this won't have much affect on RCL as they are not making
much on this, nothing in comparison on how much could be made by
getting the zxvega+ into shops before xmas.
I believe RCL are massively focussed on getting the vega+ on
xmas shelves, or I really hope they are. But the general feeling
from poor comms with genuine backers who have been quiet through
some pretty shoddy public laundry sessions is starting to affect
the popularity of the spectrum community, which will be their
no.1 market. So they now have to engage us better while still
aiming to get it in shops. But, this is a big but, if it gets to
the shops before backers....
One other thing, don't be surprised if the zxvega+ is cheaper in
the shops that what we backed to get it, I believe the market
won't pay >£100 for this, and a £99 type price will move the
product exponentially quicker, if it's in for xmas moving it
quickly will be important. But we're grown up backers, we can
expect this.... can't we?
#Post#: 183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Peeto Date: November 17, 2016, 9:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Jools - you will be surprised how strong Sinclair brand still
is. 1st Vega looked much worse like Vega+ and still it sells at
£100/I better will not comment how much it is really worth/ end
user price. Long time no price drop, I was surprised. I expect
the same/if somehow they manage to finish this product and get
it to the retail stores/, price will be high for long time with
no price promotions.
#Post#: 184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Jools Date: November 18, 2016, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Peeto, my reference to price was based on what people will spend
on such a device as a xmas present, to themselves if need be :)
However Amazon still have a zxvega left at £75
HTML https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinclair-ZX-Spectrum-Vega-Console/dp/B013BC7IR6/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479474916&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=zxvega
But there are available elsewhere too, however stocks are
limited but there's a reason for that, which I won't go into
here.
When pricing a product, once you've costed the item to make and
market, you then add your profit margin, you then have to
consider the market and adjust accordingly. The xmas market is
about selling large numbers in a short space of time as the
market changes very quickly and dies for two months after xmas.
If you saw the ZXVega+ on the shelves a week before xmas at
94.99 you'd buy one or two :) but if it was 139.99 you might
wait for the sales. It's the econmics of retail not the love we
have for all things 8bit. We'd pay 80+ for a mint 16k spectrum
and think we robbed the ebay seller, where as my wife would kill
me for 'wasting' money like that! ;)
#Post#: 185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Peeto Date: November 18, 2016, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
:-) agreed . Believe me, I know what you are talking about. I
launched several products on several markets, especialy to key
retailers at some countries ;-)
#Post#: 186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Indiegogo campaign ZXVega+ is a shame
By: Peeto Date: November 18, 2016, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I forgot mention that retailers promo actions for Christmas are
closed/fully prebooked around time of September usualy :-). You
need time to prepare leaflets, promotions etc. So Vega+ at
retailer this Christmas? No way, even if product is ready to
ship tomorrow :-). But they can prebook some easter promo for
2017 if Vega+ is ready/is not yet/;-)
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page