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#Post#: 1010--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 28, 2020, 11:18 pm
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--- Quote from: RickSanchez link ---
>
> [quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=99.msg1004#msg1004
date=1606607936][...]
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YXUtp2FXNbK_AL1MndnUtkYlsOrWG1Tx/view?usp=sharing<br
/>[...]
--- End Quote ---
how to play zerg.
Micro on point, early strikeeco, good spawnerpositioning,
absolutly gamewinning transfuses, great decissionmaking.
literally this replay is kind of a goldensample for any
zergguide. the part when smith took your bigspine and you were
forced into a sub armor 5 game is absolutly brilliant to
demonstrate how to handle aggressive terrans and is totally in
line with my guide. for safetyreason get 2-3 more infestors next
time, your mate was out of transfuses like twice and you got
punished. but nobody is perfect. must see replay if you wanna
step up the zerg "tierladder" in Zerg hex. 10/10.
[/quote]
and u honsetly think this replay has ANYTHING to do with our
games on the stream with me,u,blackeagle and protozz on terran
side? XDDDDDDDDDDD
8:23:
top mid not killed his rocks
top right killed rocks but still no rafinery build
both of them have 0 upgraded gases
bot left is afk
from this point I can already say this game is 2v2 not zerg
fighting "stacked lobby of pushing terrans"( after watching some
more I would say it was 2v1,75... lister rly lowed himself down
with those cows)
any push both top mid and right will ever do is a joke with this
eco
top left is better but still on 13 min his eco is below 200
smith is literaly only terrann in this game with more than 200
eco on 13 min vs zerg who went full eco build, and he got bad
rng of being on mid so not easy 2 side gases defended by 10 rins
so again this match has NOTHING to do with things mett said or
games he presented
as for those game saving fuses I suppose u talk about 18 min vs
lister...
who on 18 min is pushing with 30t1 and messed his micro with
bubble
totally comparable with my 30 vets on -/+same time or earlier
that mett had to fight
yup 24 min in
top right never even looked at big spine nvm pushing it,
top mid pushed once then he had to spend 10 min repairing eco
that he somehow messes up early game
bot was 1v1
and 1 more thing- before someone mention v early leave
if nothing else it only proves my point all the more
zerg went full eco build and on top of that was slowed rly hard
by broken penalty
yet despite that 4 out of 5 terrans in this match did not have
even 200 eco on 13 min
there is no comparison between this match and ones that were
played on mett stream
#Post#: 1011--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: deorai037
Date: November 28, 2020, 11:59 pm
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Completely unrelated to the most recent posts in the thread but
returning to my first impressions...
I think that the double armor buff to fortification is too much,
and might actually encourage average and below average skill
terran players to go for a 2/3 gas, fortified wall turtle (and
might actually enable a 1 gas fortified wall turtle, although
I'm not enough of a dick to actually try that out in a normal
game).
Removing the bonus damage reduction from connecting defenders to
a con yard makes late game Terran walls paper against torras and
a lot weaker against infused, but basically everything else is
now largely useless against a few wall upgrades backed up with a
handful of t1/shocks/vets because flat armor buffs are really
strong early game. With the increased armor, even ravators take
way longer to pop a level 3/4 wall. That is, unless you spend so
many attack upgrades that you've gimped your Z eco. Whereas
before being 2~3 attack upgrades above the level of wall was
enough for ravators to pop them, now you need way more attack
upgrades to realistically wear down a terran wall. And this is
talking about walls that aren't protected by the con yard aura.
By late game, the wall/turtle issue isn't really all that
different either. It still seems to be feasible for
turtle-terrans to hit roughly level 7~10 walls, which hold up as
well as level 14~20 walls used to against anything short of a
torra.
I would suggest maybe giving the con yard aura a minor armor
buff (maybe this could be researchable so it's not automatic) if
you want to compensate for the functionally-increased expense of
fortification upgrades, but the double armor probably needs to
be nerfed unless you want the game to settle back into brutas
rushes vs turtle-terran.
In any case, if left as is, I think that average players are
going to gravitate towards level 3~6 walls around 2/3 gas for
mid/late game combined with ion.
(As a side note, I've won my recent matches as Zerg, it's just
something that I've noticed and had to adjust for.)
#Post#: 1012--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Mett Gaming
Date: November 29, 2020, 4:21 am
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--- Quote from: RickSanchez link ---
>
>
> "zerg has no chance anymore if terrans arent all fulltards"
> Yes 6 good terran win vs 2 good zerg in 100% of the cases. 4
good terrans win in 90% of the cases. 3 good terrans or less can
make it work.
> The key to survive as Zerg is to focus on Strikes for your eco
and infestors for defense. If you arent capable of hitting the
transfuses good terrans will kill you. No issue with that. 6
people having fun > 2 people having fun. it is just like massing
roach ravs is no nobrainer win by just hoarding units anymore.
Terran has valid counter now. We can argue if shatter is
overtuned (which it is in my opinion
HTML https://zerghex.createaforum.com/balance-discussion/veteranshatter/)<br
/>but overall it would be a designflaw if a midgame Zerg units
that requires Armor 2 can more reliable win than Armor 5 Units
since it requires way more time to survive until.
>
--- End Quote ---
I did not speak of 4 Terrans. I said 4 competent players. That
includes the 2 that might go zerg. The thing with Fb's was that
you actually could mess up trying to go for them and plenty ppl
did. Vet's not only are even more broken than fb's were in the
hands of competent players. Even the less skilled players as
long as they know how to research them and know how to right
click a big spine will just kill you.
Yes, I do still agree that the turtle into fb meta was bad and
needed change. But as it is now an entirety of 3 people prefer
this version over the other and proceeds to derail conversations
and insult the ones that disagree with them (Yes, finally the
last one got that you don't like Adam. You may now return to
posting constructively). At this point you might aswell just
remove armor 2. I always thought roaches are a trap and if you
have to go for them it's the terrans game to lose. Well, terrans
lost the ability to lose to roaches...
possible fixes:
- nerf veteran shatter
- make roaches great again
- auto transfuse big spines?
- make armor 3 cost 2,5k
- give primal roaches the A2 upgrades
to 3) 30vets with bubble just melt big spines in like 0,5s. The
transfuse animation is longer than that.
edit: no, not all of these should be implemented. It's just what
my brain could come up with to make mid game zerg stand a
chance.
#Post#: 1014--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 29, 2020, 4:57 am
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But they made veterans... I thought it was auto-lose at that
point?
I didn't bother looking at the game (I was pretty fed up with my
performance, losing 1st big spine, wtf so bad).
Smith could have won the game. I had to F2 top for a while
(because even with the according to adam "low eco" terrans still
got stuff done). Smith did nothing with his freedom, could have
definetely raped me (technically lost game kekw), he then pushed
when I had time to transfuse and it felt like 1/3 of his army...
Top mid not having anything at home and dieing to some ultras
was fortunate xD
Zerg always needed to outskill terrans by a large portion to
win. The tar rush was kinda abusive vs. marines last patch. I've
made my points, if there is anything you'd like to hear repeated
/ more in detail let me know, but I'll try not to post a wall of
text every time.
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