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#Post#: 977--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:03 am
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--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
> [quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=99.msg975#msg975
date=1606567715]
> When I said eco I talked about my zerg. Obviously the zerg
that play like you have an even harder time. Watch the full
game. Your post is totally besides the point.
>
--- End Quote ---
"point" is red is a good terran player who was left alone for
24!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! min, fact
that he decided to meme and go for long game instead of ending
is his choice and I see no reason why he should be denied it, if
u as zerg have a problem with it then accept that game is lost
(bc it would be if he wanted to) and just leave
as for ur game I didnt watch it yet, like I said I am on 2h40
min one for now will get to second one in a moment
[/quote]
Avonss (the zerg in the 2h 40min game) thinks he's a really good
hex player btw :)
My issue with what red (me) is doing, is that lesser players try
to replicate it and fail, and the general waste of time this
playstyle is. Yeah, I totally could have ended the game (see how
I call it "troll bunker" in initial post), but if I want to play
a "long" game (that so many players seemingly want to play) this
is roughly how you do it, this is how you solo ion all the way
to victory. You are getting closer to the point though.
My strategy in those games isn't refined at all. I just had a
very basic idea about how to do it, and it kinda worked out,
today I would do it much more efficiently, why make 456353677
reapers to defend when you can make full-wall and scvs? The
extra beauty of this is, if you don't get the wall up, you just
leave the game and go next. Minimal waste of time for you,
maximal waste of time for the zerg, unless they can break you
~13-20min somehow (possible but quite hard, especially the more
I adjust to what's causing me trouble). And the zerg will suffer
by my early leave for the rest of the game if I didn't get up my
wall.
#Post#: 978--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: RickSanchez
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Imagine "enjoying" a single match arcade for 1h+ ??? ??? ???
20-30 min if terrans win
30-40 min if zerg wins
is 100% fine for me
#Post#: 979--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: <heXnab>Speed link ---
>
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=99.msg976#msg976
date=1606567995]
> [quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=99.msg975#msg975
date=1606567715]
> When I said eco I talked about my zerg. Obviously the zerg
that play like you have an even harder time. Watch the full
game. Your post is totally besides the point.
>
--- End Quote ---
"point" is red is a good terran player who was left alone for
24!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! min, fact
that he decided to meme and go for long game instead of ending
is his choice and I see no reason why he should be denied it, if
u as zerg have a problem with it then accept that game is lost
(bc it would be if he wanted to) and just leave
as for ur game I didnt watch it yet, like I said I am on 2h40
min one for now will get to second one in a moment
[/quote]
Avonss (the zerg in the 2h 40min game) thinks he's a really good
hex player btw :)
My issue with what red (me) is doing, is that lesser players try
to replicate it and fail, and the general waste of time this
playstyle is. Yeah, I totally could have ended the game (see how
I call it "troll bunker" in initial post), but if I want to play
a "long" game (that so many players seemingly want to play) this
is roughly how you do it, this is how you solo ion all the way
to victory. You are getting closer to the point though.
My strategy in those games isn't refined at all. I just had a
very basic idea about how to do it, and it kinda worked out,
today I would do it much more efficiently, why make 456353677
reapers to defend when you can make full-wall and scvs? The
extra beauty of this is, if you don't get the wall up, you just
leave the game and go next. Minimal waste of time for you,
maximal waste of time for the zerg, unless they can break you
~13-20min somehow (possible but quite hard, especially the more
I adjust to what's causing me trouble). And the zerg will suffer
by my early leave for the rest of the game if I didn't get up my
wall.
[/quote]
so "its good strategy unless zerg recognise it and couner it in
which case I just leave the game"xD
now u are getting close to the point
#Post#: 980--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RickSanchez link ---
>
> Imagine "enjoying" a single match arcade for 1h+ ??? ??? ???
>
> 20-30 min if terrans win
> 30-40 min if zerg wins
>
> is 100% fine for me
>
--- End Quote ---
"for u" do not equall all players
as was stated many times by many different people there are in
fact players who enjoy 1h games nothing imaginery about it
if u want to play like that - do it, but dont force others to
like what u do
#Post#: 981--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
A long game in the right game can be intense, and I'm fine it
shows up every now and then, but this type of full bunker being
a literal go-to strategy is stupid as fuck.
I've had to run 70 ingame minutes straight in a pvz game once
(game is played by most as "base & camp", when really it is
"catch & run"). It was an exception, I would not want every game
to be like that (and I could have won much sooner if I played it
smarter, but I didn't), but I didn't mind that one insane long
game. That type of stuff is ok, it's not going to happen every
game, you cannot really force it. I literally couldn't win the
game for a while, of course you can prolong a game that's over
if you really want to, but it's not the same as prolonging a
zerg hex game.
#Post#: 982--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: RickSanchez
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
> [quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=99.msg978#msg978
date=1606568714]
> Imagine "enjoying" a single match arcade for 1h+ ??? ??? ???
>
> 20-30 min if terrans win
> 30-40 min if zerg wins
>
> is 100% fine for me
>
--- End Quote ---
"for u" do not equall all players
as was stated many times by many different people there are in
fact players who enjoy 1h games nothing imaginery about it
if u want to play like that - do it, but dont force others to
like what u do
[/quote]
that nails my complaints with 3.x because if you have enough of
these idle to victory guys THEY FORCE ME to do so too..
Why would I want subdecent or afk players to decide the
playstyle? Noobs have to follow the veterans and look what they
do and not forcing the most boring playstyle possible..
--- Quote from: <heXnab>Speed link ---
> [...]Camping in itself is a toxic strategy, I cannot believe
some people think it's desirable xD
--- End Quote ---
this
#Post#: 983--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
>
> so "its good strategy unless zerg recognise it and couner it
in which case I just leave the game"xD
> now u are getting close to the point
>
--- End Quote ---
How do they counter? F2 me? What if 3 terran do it? Can't F2 all
of them at once. Yeah, it's a really toxic strategy, but
actually one of the better ones you could do (literally better
than T1 effort wise lul).
There is very little zerg can efficiently do vs. a full double
wall with a not entirely AFK terran behind it. You can get
creepers and ferocity, and yeah, terran has to react and slow
economy to react to it, but researching ferocity isn't exactly
economical for you either?
Camping in itself is a toxic strategy, I cannot believe some
people think it's desirable xD
#Post#: 984--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
well I am done with second game as well, just like 1 one its
proves nothing, both are a case of terran who knows the game
messing around with zerg who is really bad at it
I personaly dont see anything wrong with both of them
no good zerg would ever allow u to pull something like this
unless lobby is stacked enough that it dont rly matter and
terrans win no matter the strat they use
it was some time ago so I wont look for it but I still remeber
game u had vs mett
u tried this build u did in game 2 and he just killed all ur
lowground with roach+rav
#Post#: 985--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 28, 2020, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Like I said, I didn't even optimize it. Mett however, like every
mid tier zerg ever, "optimized" roach ravager xD
Losing low ground doesn't mean I lost game tho... How many ions
did I get off, if any? I remember some zerg taking my low ground
by getting attack ups like mad... pushing in a terran with 45
gen ups (the 500 one counted as +10) turned out quite bitter for
them (3+ ions), wasn't a game vs. mett though, I think. It's
really just bonus eco^^ you can still rush for ions easily x) As
oayoo said, a playstyle without risk (especially since I usually
put my yard in the safe location immediately, though not
always).
#Post#: 987--------------------------------------------------
Re: First Impressions of Patch 4.0
DIR By: deorai037
Date: November 28, 2020, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For me, it was usually unlikely for the game to get past the one
hour mark in the past, and if it did it was inevitably because
Zerg just didn't know how to use the tools at their disposal to
end the game. I'm very, very familiar with how to survive wave
after wave of Omegas, and to even get to that point usually
required me to play legit before that point (i.e., I would slow
down the Zerg a lot with damage over time, end up with a fat
army of 70 t3s that could defend me alongside my walls but
weren't enough to push into Zerg with 3 potato Terran teammates
(and at least two dead ones), eventually be forced back onto
high ground b/c it's hard to survive solo against two Zerg at
once, watch as non-pro Zerg fails to kill me because they don't
micro hydras correctly alongside omega/don't get infused roaches
to kill off SCVs attempting to rebuild wall). Truly long games
were few and far in between for me (my longest ever was 4 hours,
my second longest ever was 2:15 [I literally taught the Zerg how
to kill me for this one], my third longest ever was around 2
hours).
In other words, ultra-long game turtling usually meant a much
stronger Terran player couldn't solo-carry a team of newbies
against an average Zerg who, at least, knew to put lots of early
pressure on the Terran (but didn't know how to break a good
Terran in the mid/late game). An unusual circumstance to be
sure.
The real issue with turtling was that Zerg couldn't really stop
a coordinated turtle into fast ion. In fact, I'm not sure if
that problem was actually fixed by this patch because early wall
upgrades are stronger now, even if they're more expensive (I've
seen like, 10 attack ravators fail to kill a level 4 con yard
wall this patch) (and by more expensive I mean in terms of
relative gas cost; price is the same but gas is a lot harder to
get now).
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