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#Post#: 819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Speed Date: November 23, 2020, 12:42 pm
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[quote author=baZzZ link=topic=77.msg817#msg817 date=1606154278]
[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=77.msg791#msg791
date=1606142059]
[quote author=Adam link=topic=77.msg789#msg789 date=1606141725]
[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=77.msg787#msg787
date=1606140547]
1 is a good mid tier player (this is where I'd rate Bazz, Adam,
ink etc)
[/quote]
now thats just insulting...
[/quote]
You think you are a top tier player with your 60 average apm?
You super cut your eco to get dmg done fast. 13minute big spine
kill is respectable, but you only upgraded 3/6 gasses, your
mineral income was 200-ish at 13 min (mine was 300, 6/6 gasses
upgraded).
You are mid tier from my perspective. A good mid tier player,
but not more than that. Play faster and more balanced between
eco and aggression and you will be top tier in my book.
[/quote]
Sorry speed but WHO ARE YOU to rate other ppl? I mean, who the
**** do you think you are?! You don't play solo and you are
proud on your stats?! I played often with you, and i didnt see
one good player in the game. ( no im surely not good, but
someone playing like you wont surely judge/rate me. Oayoo can,
Spectre can, this guys literally outplay me, but not you. )
Now back to topic - what about, removing ION, bringing back
Chem(or something compareable, like trading system or anything
helping getting eco ) WITHOUT Firebats. Terrans ONLY could win
by pushing ( that's what you want ), but you still have a way to
comeback with eco when you got focused ( thats what i would like
to see ). And Zerg doesnt need to fear ppl pushed back because
they cant kill him without facing him. This way you could like
make strategic moves, attack from more sides and outplay zerg.
And it hasnt to be the chemical, just something to eco up a bit,
and get elites before minute 40. Like good Zergs have Brutes at
minute 19-20. Also you could enable zerg atk to 60 so there wont
be endless bunkering.
[/quote]
Have you ever seen a hydralisk? Serious question at this point.
#Post#: 820--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Oayoo Date: November 23, 2020, 12:58 pm
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[quote author=baZzZ link=topic=77.msg817#msg817 date=1606154278]
Now back to topic - what about, removing ION,
[/quote]
Ion is the most clever bunker tool ever made in Zerg hex.
No way to remove it, it is perfect as a last trump card.
Without Ion, there are no bunker at all. Stacking T3 will never
win late game against Zerg x) At 40 min Zergs will have
Torralisks, Omega, swarm of bruts and mass Hydra.
What you are asking for is to die but a little later, after
wasting some time afk inside your base.
You can have elites around 25 min while pressuring Zerg with T1
then T2. No need to wait 40 min.
Btw i'm really happy and proud that you think i'm good but sadly
i'm a pretty casual player and Speed learnt so much these past
months that he already is way better than me :(
Damn you Speed !
For the chem part, if you need more gas i really think a new
upgrade on gas geyser requiring a bugo could be great + dead
Terran gases free :)
#Post#: 821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Speed Date: November 23, 2020, 1:06 pm
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[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=77.msg820#msg820 date=1606157880]
Btw i'm really happy and proud that you think i'm good but sadly
i'm a pretty casual player and Speed learnt so much these past
months that he already is way better than me :(
Damn you Speed !
[/quote]
See? This mid tier player knows his place (jk, he's very humble,
he's obviously top tier. Although I am actually close to
screaming at him in voice channel when I see him target fire big
spine when there is strikelings running at him^^)
#Post#: 822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Oayoo Date: November 23, 2020, 1:09 pm
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I'm way too lazy x)
#Post#: 827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: baZzZ Date: November 23, 2020, 1:33 pm
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[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=77.msg820#msg820 date=1606157880]
[quote author=baZzZ link=topic=77.msg817#msg817 date=1606154278]
Now back to topic - what about, removing ION,
[/quote]
Ion is the most clever bunker tool ever made in Zerg hex.
No way to remove it, it is perfect as a last trump card.
Without Ion, there are no bunker at all. Stacking T3 will never
win late game against Zerg x) At 40 min Zergs will have
Torralisks, Omega, swarm of bruts and mass Hydra.
What you are asking for is to die but a little later, after
wasting some time afk inside your base.
You can have elites around 25 min while pressuring Zerg with T1
then T2. No need to wait 40 min.
Btw i'm really happy and proud that you think i'm good but sadly
i'm a pretty casual player and Speed learnt so much these past
months that he already is way better than me :(
Damn you Speed !
For the chem part, if you need more gas i really think a new
upgrade on gas geyser requiring a bugo could be great + dead
Terran gases free :)
[/quote]
No need to protect anyone, i played vs you and vs him, and i
know what kind i faced :) But anyway thats not the topic.
You're totally right, but ion makes ppl going into bunker
because they "can still easy win". But i give you the point as
being a last trump card. What i thought about - what about
giving ppl resource rewards for a special kill amount? i just
choose a random number - 1000!
So you get rewarded for staying outside and holding the focus,
and it also helps you closing the gap to stay in time line. All
just ideas..
#Post#: 836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: morgosh Date: November 23, 2020, 1:59 pm
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[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=77.msg787#msg787
date=1606140547]
It's funny how everyone I talk to is anti-chemical plant, but
it's exactly the chemical that you miss in 4.0
See, I'm a toxic elitist hexnab player, but damn, I know this
game in and out (69/3 & 24/0 in old patch, that's just insane,
even if you play premade and avoid the really poor lobbies).
[/quote]
Edit: ib4 you respond, do not call me a noob before I see you
beating me 1 time as zerg. You saw me play 1 game as terran.
Lets continue.
Lets make something clear ratio does not matter (Maybe elo
should be added like in kerrigan survival). And no your 100%
winratio playing premade is not impressive at all. Even a "noob"
like me has above 75% winratio in public games as terran... I do
wonder however, how you manage to have a 100% winratio, when I
just yesterday witnesed, that as soon as one of your hexnab
peons was forced zerg, you all leave...
Anyway, I do think you are an above average player from what
i've seen, and I do like the aggresive-terran play you are
pushing forward. Im just curious Speed, I can't image having a
100% win ratio can be any fun? Why are you so determined on
pushing terran buffs forward and how can you be so sure they
need a buff, when you never see a loss yourself? I'ts not like
hexnab are the only godtier players that no one can beat as z,
its more like 3 (actually I think its 2, but lets go with 3)
mid-tier terran players are enough to beat ANY zerg player. The
proposed changes u suggest just seem like you want to be able to
win without ever being pushed back, no matter the zerg skill
level ( you tilt because zerg can push you back early, which
they should definitely be able to do if they go aggresive vs 1
player), i'd image the game should be made so that the better
player wins, don't you?
I stated before and I will again, why not give a handicap to
good premade players. Im not sure what's been done on this
(Squarerules and so on...), but playing other mods designed for
this is not that fun, why not balance the same map dynamically,
depending on the elo of the players. Its not like handicaps
don't exist in any other games.
Can Wmaster respond on this? Otherwise I think the game can
never be balanced to everyones satisfaciton, it never will be,
but this could bring it closer.
I propose the following changes, please do respond on what you
think...
Overall proposed changes for pushing meta:
1. Zerg gets % refund on all buildings destroyed. This keeps the
game moving and its not over as soon as the edge hatches are
taken. Zerg can start building upfront but then slowly gets
pushed back and can then rebuild without immediately losing.
2. +1 marine damage locked until T2 unlock. I think this does
not affect the noobs what so ever.
T2 marines still need to be pushed forward a bit, there is no
reward for going for them. people can still win with only t1
marines. I think everyone agrees T1 marines should not be
killing big spines.
I imagine it like this: t1 marines are able to destroy hatches,
and then t2 big spines if played correctly.
Ps: beastling is still useless, I would remove it completely.
Buff bane health.
Handicap changes:
if: terran is a weak player
There are many ways to go for this, even some speed's
recommended changes would be fine. I would personally add
additional marine on start. And maybe don't auto change the
rallies on them, so they can try to expand.
if: zerg is a weak player:
Start with more minerals. Or any other thing...
#Post#: 839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Oayoo Date: November 23, 2020, 2:20 pm
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[quote author=baZzZ link=topic=77.msg827#msg827 date=1606160028]
What i thought about - what about giving ppl resource rewards
for a special kill amount? i just choose a random number - 1000!
So you get rewarded for staying outside and holding the focus,
and it also helps you closing the gap to stay in time line. All
just ideas..
[/quote]
Yeah !! I like these kind of ideas :)
it's kinda like my idea with the capacity spawners giving
minerals when they die.
I dunno about the others but for my part, i think that what you
said are the kind of ideas we need for this game :)
#Post#: 840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Oayoo Date: November 23, 2020, 2:35 pm
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[quote author=morgosh link=topic=77.msg836#msg836
date=1606161572]
if: terran is a weak player
There are many ways to go for this, even some speed's
recommended changes would be fine. I would personally add
additional marine on start. And maybe don't auto change the
rallies on them, so they can try to expand.
if: zerg is a weak player:
Start with more minerals. Or any other thing...
[/quote]
Bro, obviously everyone will just go new accounts to abuse your
system.
There is no way to make this work. Furthermore it is really
unfair.
[quote author=morgosh link=topic=77.msg836#msg836
date=1606161572]
Overall proposed changes for pushing meta:
1. Zerg gets % refund on all buildings destroyed. This keeps the
game moving and its not over as soon as the edge hatches are
taken. Zerg can start building upfront but then slowly gets
pushed back and can then rebuild without immediately losing.
[/quote]
You understand that if the Zerg build his spawners at front, it
is a risky strat. So you want to make a risky move become safe
with maximal reward ???
WTF if you don't want to loose yours spawners, build them around
your big spine. Make your choice.
-Risky strat ===> High reward but can make you loose a lot
-Safe strat ====> Low reward but you don't risk to loose what
you have.
You can't have both x)
#Post#: 841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Speed Date: November 23, 2020, 2:43 pm
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1st off.
How do you get the assumption game is over when you lose outer
nests? I guess it is true when you are an all-in player. However
when I play zerg I exclusively build in the back. I start with
strikelings, they are fast, they are fun, you can micro them as
a huge ball that will eat marines easily. Of course a shock
trooper counters them due to splash damage on auto attack and
ground pulse ability... however, a shock trooper is 15/30, 30
gas could also be a fruit farm, a fruit farm is 10mineral /
minute. Making terran get a shock trooper early in itself is
nice economic damage.
Most zerg structures return a % of what they are worth, any
spire / spawner will return 33% of its value (pro tip; this will
happen automatically when the structure is killed, but I
appreciated you saving me some energy by deleting the spire
manually). If all the creep tumors, spines and nests returned
value when killed, I would literally kill them myself as zerg to
boost my eco. Of course you can prevent zerg from targeting
their own buildings, perhaps it's time we stop zergs from
killing their nests, even though I kinda like the dynamic of
zerg being able to deny, it might frustrate players in the
current patch where gas and gas income is extremely valuable (as
it should be).
I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you proposed, except
removal of beastlings. Beastlings can be removed just fine, no
issues with that.
I have a pretty perfect zerg win rate, too (both this patch, and
last patch, too). Do you know what was so hard for zerg last
patch? You had to hold even the most committed T1 aggression
(low income auto-train T1 spam) without slowing down your eco
much and without taking much dmg, because if you did, firebat
could kill you later. And I'm so glad that's gone (and it helps
any zerg, not just me to have a much better experience playing
now). If I wanted to win (all) games, I would have asked Wmaster
to not do a patch 4.0 ever. (lol) I think this answers 1 of your
questions.
If a player like you had 75% win rate in the old patch that just
really shows how easy mode it was for terran (no offense).
In the game I called you noob that was mostly because I really
didn't appreciate how you F2d middle over and over again. Might
have been unnecessarry, but after all you said you'd fck my mom
all day so if we are to discuss anything like "player etiquette"
or manners or whatever... I'm confident I will come out on top,
just like if I were to play zerg vs. your terran
#Post#: 850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.0
By: Buggo Date: November 24, 2020, 1:05 am
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Ty for creating this great game working, and balancing the
game!!! Please read this carefully!!!
1. Some people mentioned a lot about balancing the game;
however, the game is always imbalanced while there is a big
difference in skillset.
2. A fact that cannot be ignored is most lobbies contain 1-2 new
players, maybe more. Chem plant and fire bats are there to
balance off the new players.
3. Removing chem plant forced Terran players to push, but
pushing becomes the only way to win. Lack of gas source makes
upgrading wall impossible.
Which also kills ion victory. (I played 27 games after the
patch, only lost once; surprisingly enough that only 2 ions were
shot. About 5 games got to
brutalisk stage.)
Not going to comment on the patch, since there are people like
and don't like.
Here are the stats I got from my games.
18 Terran games 1 loss, 9 Zerg games 0 loss
Primal roach appeared once out of 27 games, ultra and beastling
appeared zero times.
Total less than 10 fire bats were built in 27 games.
0 games were ended with ion as Terran. 2 ions were shot ( 1 was
shot by Kylieee, and I pushed on ion blast)/(1 was shot by Dr
plato after got pushed back to highground)
0 games were ended with roach as Zerg.
The highest wall upgrade was 17(zerg was bad and everyone was
trolling, I managed to steal gas from a new Terran player, gave
me a total of 9 refinaries.)
The average wall upgrade was 2-3.
17 Terran victories: 15 Vets finishes, 2 Elites finishes.
9 Zerg victories: 5 bruta/torra finishes, 4 terran quit before
armor 2
Average of 1-2 new players in each lobby.
More than 95% of players complained about the new patch
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