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       #Post#: 619--------------------------------------------------
       Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: elon.schools@yahoo.com Date: November 21, 2020, 5:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       So I wanted to just voice so thoughts on this new patch in
       regards to how terran units will work before and after. Im not
       going to get stuck on how the old game will be with chems since
       they are getting removed, instead I am going to make some
       suggestions on some things I think would be good to add/change.
       Units Energy Usage-
       With chems being gone and fbs using 2 energy per a shot, I think
       this is going tbh a major drain on energy similar to how shocks
       are(2 energy a shot). With a max gen you can only support about
       20-30 shocks without your gen running dry all the time, meaning
       you will only really be building like 1-2 to put at your 1 space
       entrance to kill small units that are just piling up similar to
       how shocks are used to clear clumps of enemies. With reapers
       being useless to anything bigger than base units, they are not a
       viable strategy to take late game. With this in mind I think it
       would be a good idea to incorporate the other units into the
       energy reduction techs rather than just marines. Eg. Shocks and
       T1 rins will both receive the energy usage reduction that
       conversion 1 give, fbs and vets will receive the ones for T2,
       etc so the units which are currently outside the tech tree(fbs,
       shocks and tank) could be incorporated a bit more into the tech
       tree than just 1  or 2 ups for them. which kinda just leaves
       them as useless units en mass instead making them only really
       useful in small numbers of like 4-5. This would help them to
       actually be of more use and make a few more strategies viable
       than just rin pushing.
       Balancing for different skill lvls-
       I am still going to put forward the idea of 2 different game
       modes, 1 for a pro stacked lobby and 1 for a less skilled lobby.
       The pro one would essentially change some things to make the
       game more challenging and more balanced around 6 good terrans vs
       2 good zerg. Where as, the other would be more balanced around 3
       noobs 3 good terrans and 2 decent zerg. granted the one balanced
       around the weaker terrans would probably played more than the
       other, however this would allow the more competitive zerg hex
       players like people from hexNab and the sort to be able to play
       with more of a challenge. This would make stacked lobbies more
       fair while allowing public lobbies to be balanced more for new
       players to get into the game rather than just throwing them into
       the fire and expecting them to fly.
       This is not meant to start a flame war this is just my thoughts
       on some things I think would be a good addition to the game
       #Post#: 622--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: GrumpyKitten Date: November 21, 2020, 5:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=That Strait Smith link=topic=76.msg619#msg619
       date=1605957865]
       So I wanted to just voice so thoughts on this new patch in
       regards to how terran units will work before and after. Im not
       going to get stuck on how the old game will be with chems since
       they are getting removed, instead I am going to make some
       suggestions on some things I think would be good to add/change.
       Units Energy Usage-
       With chems being gone and fbs using 2 energy per a shot, I think
       this is going tbh a major drain on energy similar to how shocks
       are(2 energy a shot). With a max gen you can only support about
       20-30 shocks without your gen running dry all the time, meaning
       you will only really be building like 1-2 to put at your 1 space
       entrance to kill small units that are just piling up similar to
       how shocks are used to clear clumps of enemies. With reapers
       being useless to anything bigger than base units, they are not a
       viable strategy to take late game. With this in mind I think it
       would be a good idea to incorporate the other units into the
       energy reduction techs rather than just marines. Eg. Shocks and
       T1 rins will both receive the energy usage reduction that
       conversion 1 give, fbs and vets will receive the ones for T2,
       etc so the units which are currently outside the tech tree(fbs,
       shocks and tank) could be incorporated a bit more into the tech
       tree than just 1  or 2 ups for them. which kinda just leaves
       them as useless units en mass instead making them only really
       useful in small numbers of like 4-5. This would help them to
       actually be of more use and make a few more strategies viable
       than just rin pushing.
       Balancing for different skill lvls-
       I am still going to put forward the idea of 2 different game
       modes, 1 for a pro stacked lobby and 1 for a less skilled lobby.
       The pro one would essentially change some things to make the
       game more challenging and more balanced around 6 good terrans vs
       2 good zerg. Where as, the other would be more balanced around 3
       noobs 3 good terrans and 2 decent zerg. granted the one balanced
       around the weaker terrans would probably played more than the
       other, however this would allow the more competitive zerg hex
       players like people from hexNab and the sort to be able to play
       with more of a challenge. This would make stacked lobbies more
       fair while allowing public lobbies to be balanced more for new
       players to get into the game rather than just throwing them into
       the fire and expecting them to fly.
       This is not meant to start a flame war this is just my thoughts
       on some things I think would be a good addition to the game
       [/quote]
       I like the idea of modifying terran upgrades, i dont think that
       without chem you have any chance getting past tier 2 marines.
       Getting energy to them too, all that... Also you need upgraded
       walls too against ravators.
       So yeah, i think removing chems will have bigger impact on the
       game in the terms of there won't be a viable terran mid game
       (ravs coming out). But we'll see, meta needs some time to
       settle.
       About the skill level thing:
       I could imagine this as a "when the game starts have a vote on
       what to play (easy or pro)" but how do you know the players?
       Zerg will definitely vote for the PRO mode where he has more
       advantage, at least 3 terrans will vote EASY mode, cuz there is
       always 2-3 players newbie even in better lobbies.
       So i see the idea, and i think it could be good, just dont see
       how would it be executed to not just get ppl angry.
       Also depends on the changes it implements to the game, so yeah:
       it is a difficult subject
       #Post#: 629--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: Oayoo Date: November 21, 2020, 6:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       we can only be agree with the hard mode (in-house mode like we
       call it)
       We were asking for it already in previous thread^^
       #Post#: 712--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: Speed Date: November 22, 2020, 9:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Wtf? Maxed gen cannot support 20-30 shock?
       Check your maths lmao. There is 50 upgrades that add
       +3energy/sec, shocks use 2 energy to shoot and they need more
       than 1 second to attack. How the fck are you drying up a maxed
       generator? And why the fuck would you ever get some many shocks?
       It destroys your eco LOL.
       Yep we need inhouse mode^^ I've actually thought of some stuff
       for it, but I will wait and see where the game ends up^^ with
       the normal game changing it's dynamics inhouse is kinda silly to
       make now.
       #Post#: 750--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: elon.schools@yahoo.com Date: November 22, 2020, 3:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       So on the note of a max gen can only support like 20-30 shocks.
       If your shocks are firing constantly for some reason even though
       you should be making plenty of energy, your gen seems to still
       not be making enough and it ends up running dry all the time.
       its weird and I dont know why it is like that maybe its a bug or
       something.
       #Post#: 751--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Changes to conservation and alternate mode for pros
       By: Speed Date: November 22, 2020, 3:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well if you have 20-30 shocks you've already misplayed hard imho
       (no offense, I made a lot of shocks, like 8-10, to defend mass
       slowlings with 50HP once and got lectured about not doing that,
       so I had to learn this type of stuff as well).  An unupgraded
       generator has a regeneration rate of ~7. A shock needs 2 energy
       per attack, attack speed of 1 attack per 1 second. So base
       generator can supply 3 shocks permanently firing, and still has
       1 energy / sec to spare, with 1 upgrade it can support 2 more
       more shocks. For every 2 upgrades you can add 3 more shocks.
       I tested 22 shocks perma firing at brutalisks with 13 ups on
       generator, as expected, I'm not running out of energy, but I'm
       not banking any either, I assume in the heat of moment you
       messed up your energy management, I would look at marines more
       than the shocks, they burn energy extremely inefficiently when
       they aren't upgraded (2.5 energy / second for 7.5 dmg / second,
       meanwhile shock 2 energy / second for 5 dmg / second, but with
       splash dmg).
       Seems to be working the way it should to me.
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