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#Post#: 591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 20, 2020, 2:59 pm
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u tell us, it was your idea after all to remove only thing that
allowed terrans to go into mid/late game on equal terms with
zerg
just remeber nerfing roaches into ground that they cant stop t1
is not an answer as it will simply create another question
"how do u win as zerg when u die before u can get any useful
unit"
#Post#: 595--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 20, 2020, 3:05 pm
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There are ways to not die as Zerg without Roaches but again, you
don't want to do them :)
I guess you only know 1 build.
#Post#: 631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: GrumpyKitten
Date: November 21, 2020, 6:28 am
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--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> Can't agree more.
>
> *VIDEO*
>
--- End Quote ---
This is a mixed topic IMO.
On the side of the zerg:
The vid has a LOT of roach, that must have been at least 3 full
supply of them if not more (upgraded).
Not having any walls is stupid, and it's not about bunkering or
not. There is a difference in holding a continuous wave of 12
roach spawners and a BALL of those spawned units.
Would really like to see the replay in full, i think it's like
what happens a lot of time: you destroy his outer spawners +
eco, and he is now scared and just spams roach until some1 dies.
Roach + ravs SHOULD be able to break a lot of terrans, i cannot
agree with your point in that. He was solo, if he can gather a
ball and go on 1 -> 3-4-5 terrans are free to push.
If a SOLO zerg is not supposed to kill a terran with one or 2
F2, then i don't see how can the zerg even win...
On the side of the terran:
Yes: roach is OP. no question in that
Yes: T2 in underpowered, no question in that either.
The thing is that you would have survived with just 1 line of
wall with 1-2 gates so you can push too. 5 terrans still in the
game, and they did nothing either.
So i cannot agree with you in this scenario. I'd really love to
see the full replay, and i see your points and agree with them.
But to be able to hold off a ball of zerg like that without
walls and say this is normal. Nah man.
But i can imagine it is frustrating to go from winning the game
to suddenly getting destroyed in the instant.
This is rarely talked about, but i think it is smarter after
some time to not push tier 1 spawners and outer eco of the zerg.
It just creates a slingshot to spam roaches and crush everyone.
Then again: nerf roach, buff T2. without a question
#Post#: 633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 21, 2020, 6:58 am
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T2 should have cleared this Roaches ball, meaning you don't need
wall
Why should they clear this ?
Because Roaches are spawned units. They can die without cost
unlike the Terran army and they will come back. The value of the
unit is not even comparable.
The goal of mass roaches like this should be to drain the energy
of the terran army making it unable to push which will result
for the zerg to be able to tech more.
Killing t2 marines with mass tier 2 units is a nonsense and wall
will not change anything about that
You shouldn't need a wall if you have your army on the spot.
Because your army IS THE WALL.
#Post#: 634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 21, 2020, 7:01 am
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yes your army is a wall
designed to hold 1/6 of the zerg force constantly while also
push against it and withstand full zerg force IF U MAKE ANY
PREPARATIONS AGAINST IT
if one terran could casualy hold full zerg attention without any
investment in defense even as small as 30 gas for 1 row of wall
whats the point of even playing zerg in the first place?
but I mean sure when ur units are full range ones and enemy who
has forces balanced around fighting 6x yours is hitting u with
ball of melee ones why bother putting something in between to
SLOW enemy ones down and give ours TIME to do dps when zerg
decide to put all pressure on u(situiation in which he should be
dying on 4 other fronts)
I suppose roaches and zerg in general will be too op untill one
terran can push big spines while being f2ed... that sounds like
perfect balance
#Post#: 635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 21, 2020, 7:36 am
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put same Roaches supply with Ultra, make the test.
Veteran will be fine.
Why a T4 unit is weaker than a T2 unit ?
You are talking as if Roaches are the late game zerg unit lol
#Post#: 636--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: GrumpyKitten
Date: November 21, 2020, 7:52 am
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--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> put same Roaches supply with Ultra, make the test.
>
> Veteran will be fine.
>
> Why a T4 unit is weaker than a T2 unit ?
> You are talking as if Roaches are the late game zerg unit lol
>
--- End Quote ---
Nobody talks about such thing. You are beating a strawman
argument. Pls just stop, its obvious that you are invested
emotionally in that game.
Everybody agrees that rocah is OP, and (at least me) that T2 is
weak.
What you are suggesting is such a nerf to the zerg that makes it
basically the terran's bitch. If you can single-handedly hold
BOTH zerg without walls and anything, i dont see ANY way you can
hold 2 terrans pushing the same time. That means 2v2 terrans can
win. This is waaaaaaaay over the top. You cant be serious.
Marines are not your wall. Walls are walls, and are in the game
for a reason. Having a base that is surrended by walls does not
mean you are turtling. This is really overreacting.
Again: ROACH NEEDS NERF, T2 NEEDS BUFF. Everybody agrees. But
this vid is just garbage sorry.
Share replay pls.
#Post#: 637--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 21, 2020, 8:12 am
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We played 3 years of Zerg hex without building even 1 wall....
You guys are new players and think walls are usefull when it is
a noob trap.
A perfect player will play without walls...
Roaches made wall mandatory because it is overpowered.
You shouldn't be able to talk in this forum, you obviously don't
understand how Zerg hex works.
#Post#: 638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 21, 2020, 8:23 am
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For now only people who seems to not understand simple fact that
u are not supposed to hold full f2 of both zergs without losing
single unit if u dont prepare are u and speed
#Post#: 639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Veterans & Elites
DIR By: Mehaperson
Date: November 21, 2020, 8:24 am
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@grumpy
Gonna let ya know right now oayoo doesn't know how to debate or
discuss things without moving the goalpost, strawman,
contradictions, etc. He just seems unable to discuss anything
with coherent thought. All he knows is that he doesn't like the
way the game is right now and will say anything to convince
others that it needs changing.
He's passionate at the very least.
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