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#Post#: 463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 18, 2020, 10:50 am
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--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
> I mean... I just find it kind of silly that people who some
time ago admitted they never play zerg unless they are 100% sure
they get to play with their buddy talk about meta on zerg... go
play some random lobby and then try to pull off ur bruta rush
with someone who dont even know english as ur teammate
>
--- End Quote ---
I mean... I just find it kind of silly that people play zerg
with a random... go play with a friend so you have some actual
strategy and teamplay, rather than a no brain all-in.
I enjoy this more than I should xd.
#Post#: 464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 18, 2020, 10:58 am
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That is why i was fighting to rework Firebats Adam lol.
I'm sure you will agree on the fact that if we let the Roaches
stay as they are right now, Zergs will basicaly win every public
game, share strat or not, premade or not.
Don't misunderstand me, i played a LOT of Zerg games alone,
trying to teach some Russian how to play Zerg hex.
#Post#: 465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 18, 2020, 10:58 am
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for someone who seems to just have 1 build both for terran and
zerg to the point u need to play with someone u know or
everything falls apart u talk awfull lot of strategy
"I enjoy this more than I should xd."
same here
#Post#: 466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 18, 2020, 11:02 am
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--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> That is why i was fighting to rework the Firebats Adam lol.
>
> I'm sure you will agree on the fact that if we let the Roaches
stay as they are right now, Zergs will basicaly win every public
game, share strat or not, premade or not.
>
> Don't misunderstand me, i played a LOT of Zerg games alone,
trying to teach some Russian how to play Zerg hex.
>
--- End Quote ---
now that I can respect (somehow)... at least some constructive
points...
and yes it is quite massive boost for zerg but if we nerf roach
any more dont u think it will go in oposite direction? unless u
have perfect cordination with ur teammate (aka play only in pre
made) zerg becomes inrelevant and all that matter is terran
skill - they push they win they sit they lose, may as well
replace zerg with ai
#Post#: 467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 18, 2020, 11:03 am
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Do you really think i only have one build in Zerg hex ? It's
been YEARS i play this game. I saw lot of meta and different
builds.
Rush brutalisks is the only correct build right now (and i
repeat, brutalisk is a garbage unit). Roaches rush is a mistake
x)
#Post#: 468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 18, 2020, 11:17 am
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--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
> now that I can respect (somehow)... at least some constructive
points...
> and yes it is quite massive boost for zerg but if we nerf
roach any more dont u think it will go in oposite direction?
unless u have perfect cordination with ur teammate (aka play
only in pre made) zerg becomes inrelevant and all that matter is
terran skill - they push they win they sit they lose, may as
well replace zerg with ai
>
--- End Quote ---
It will not go in oposite direction:
Exemple time again^^
Godlike Roaches patch:
-Zerg all in spawners => They have low eco => Obliged to do
roaches => They took risks and got easy results => They can skip
primals, ultra, bruts, rush Toralisks, check forum post and even
walk the dog outside.
Nerfed Roaches patch:
-Zergs all in spawners => They have low eco => Obliged to do
Roaches => They took risks and didn't get results because
obviously Roaches shouldn't be able to stop completely Terrans
x) => They die
Roaches tech cost a lot. For the same cost, Zergs could research
A3. They don't, why ? Because obviously Roaches are way stronger
than primals and you can have them faster x)
Once again READ MY PREVIOUS POST (MAIN PROBLEMS IN ZERG HEX)
#Post#: 469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 18, 2020, 11:22 am
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hahahahaha, yes, I only have 1 build XD
I even practised the early bunker, because imo a good player can
do any strategy.
I've tried pressuring as zerg, but it's horrible... I never want
to commit to upgrading all spawners, but that's what you have to
do. Either you go all out on eco or all out on aggression. I've
done infestor rushes as zerg (works surprisingly well and can be
tons of fun lol).
I've done firebat builds as terran, they are disgusting... too
easy to pull off, no micro involved. They are OP, but boring as
fuck to play. At least to me^^. I've tried out a yard first
build and try T1 with cow eco, but it doesn't matter, if you are
pressured you cannot afford that kind of stuff, if you are free
you are probably better off with sheeps and fast aggression.
But sure, I'm a one-dimensional player that can only do 1
strategy XD
Edit: I've done mass italis builds to the point zerg were unable
to kill my wall with maxed omegalisk, without defensive ion...
#Post#: 470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: WMaster
Date: November 18, 2020, 12:14 pm
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--- Quote from: ZergTriumph link ---
>
> I suggest that wmaster go ahead and implement this patch, and
then we can see what needs further balancing.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree that with actual play balance will become more clear.
However I'm willing to investigate a bit further to hopefully
get a better balance out of it.
Roaches have indeed not changed too much. And I heard it's
preferred that Roaches do not counter mass T1 Marines. But is it
not the case that Zerg has to invest a lot to get Roaches to a
critical mass? Or perhaps 2 supply worth of Roaches delays
Terrans ability to push for a long enough time such that Zerg
already has a counter to Terran T2 by the time they get that.
Does Tier 2 Equipment needs to be cheaper? 250 gas can be
something to muster.
It could also be possible that because Terran T2 will be more
effective against Roaches, that Roaches would be more risky to
invest in. Note that Veteran Marines deal +36% more damage to
Roaches (total) with the changes applied, this with Shatter and
Penetrating Laser.
I could also see that 50 gas for a Firebat is bit too much,
perhaps making that 40 is better. You still need a few vs
Roaches so they can't simply walk by.
Also like Oayoo said somewhere before, Zerg has to face 3
Terrans at the same time, they could all go for a different
timing attack and Zerg must find a way to deal with all of them.
#Post#: 471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 18, 2020, 12:30 pm
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If vets were 2x the cost for 2x the dmg (turbo broken compared
to now)... I see a way to afford the DPS that is required to
push mass roaches...
With 250gas in tech 2, 50/100 for the field promotion, the 2x
dmg for 3x price... don't see how you can afford sufficient
vets. I said in an earlier post, veteran is a unit you make in
desperation / you know you are winning. It's just not efficient
(you are better off investing the gas and resources into
"better" things)
#Post#: 472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Balance Take 1 – Firebat, Roach, Bunker, Beastling
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 18, 2020, 12:47 pm
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Yeah, usually you don't go vets against roaches because you will
not be able to do damages at all. We are only doing it when we
see that the Zerg is weak.
Against a good oponent you just discard vets and go for
bunker/ion on this patch.
I really want Wmaster to understand that right now, you cannot
build t2 against Roaches x)
Furthermore, obviously under high pressure (and don't forget
that Roaches are made by all-in Zergs), Terrans will not be able
to have vets before 16+ so even thinking about t2 is irrelevant
against Roaches x)
We still have to test your vet upgrade but i fear that most
players will just be destroyed by Roaches in the new patch.
Don't forget that more than 50% of public lobbies die to Roaches
on this patch^^
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