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#Post#: 275--------------------------------------------------
Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 13, 2020, 2:21 am
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I talked a lot about balance stuff and how does the game work in
previous post. I think it is time for me to propose stuff.
Before reading this message i really advise people to check my
post :"main problems in Zerg hex", in the balance area.
1: The first thing to do is, as i proposed, in another post, to
remove chemicals and give Firebat energy instead of gas + t2
required.
Nerf their damage so they become a simple tank unit unable to
kill stuff easily.
2: Remove Italis and replace them with harass unit. This Italis
unit is a huge problem that cause players to bunker.
Fun fact, the bunker players often loose because they make them
instead of going ion canon.
3: Remove supply upgrades for Zerg (this will need some work)
4: Make infestor units have a cost and armor requirement (not
energy).
Infestors don't really need to exist other than the transfuse
and maybe spores. Make transfuse have a mineral cost instead of
energy.
5: Add in-house mode (give Zerg eco buff and stronger large
spines). This mode will be for really good players that want to
play against a stronger Zerg.
6: Add Firelings back (put behind T1 maybe or no requirement as
before).
7: Nerf Roachling speed and HP a lot, increase primal/ultra HP
and increase Brutalisks damages.
8: Increase T2/T3 damage by 1 (need test in game to be sure)
9: Add expensive gas upgrade that requires buggo (make nests
undeniable or death of starter nests instead of buggo).
10: fix very early leaver bonus to make supply cost scale down
(obviously if you rework supply upgrades, this will need rework
too).
11: Make Omegalisk immune to slow (ion canon). Terrans shouldn't
be able to bully this angel of death.
12: Don't block the dead Terran gases.
13: Cooldown for animal production if they died. (to deny angry
animal feeders), the idea is from Adam.
#Post#: 292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 13, 2020, 5:14 am
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all in all great post, I agree with most things still there are
2 but
1)3: Remove supply upgrades for Zerg (this will need some work)
I dont think this is idea for now, no matter how u go about it,
it will have massive impact on the game and should not be
implemented with other changes, lets take care of other things
then u can propose what u want to do with supply
2)I will probably just repeat myself from ur other post but if u
remove chems and nerf roaches it will make outcome of most games
completly rng, and as good player u/I whatever could just leave
in the first 4 min.
Zerg needs some earlier unit than primal to stop t1 pushing
allin where u just auto cast t1 on below 200<eco without care in
the world and same terran needs some way to recover when t1
pushing is no longer viable
If u change that it will just become- are terrans t1 pushing? I
guess they won, are they not? I guess zerg won, considering in
4-5 min u can more or less quess depending on their build if
terran will be any threat in next 10 min or not
like I said on 4 min u could make quite accurate guess on how
game will go and there will be very little u can do about it
#Post#: 295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 13, 2020, 6:12 am
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I agree about the supply rework, it is quite huge and maybe
Wmaster should maybe keep that for later, but it could really
make Zerg way more interesting to play.
For the other part, the game is already based on the rng (public
lobby) so it is irrelevant. The goal is to reward Terran for
taking risks (pushing fast).
Btw T1 isn't about auto-casting marines... If you do that you
already failed as a t1 pusher.
If Terrans don't push, they deserve to loose so i think it is
fair. Good players are already able to tell with accuracy if the
game is won or not.
#Post#: 297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 13, 2020, 6:18 am
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Auto-training could be removed... It's just a laziness feature
(and some apm help I guess) ^^
I'm personally not a fan of auto-train and auto-upgrade.
(Auto-charge of lab is something else, that one is fine imo, it
would be super annoying if that was gone ^^)
Zerg is supposed to lose if terrans play well... I do think
there is quite some skill ceiling in the T1 push... auto-casting
T1 can be quite strong (and I've definetely lost games to it
xd), however if you don't die to it that terran is actually
beyond behind, since he never got a good mineral income or a
good generator level (he'll not even have an italis for a long
time, so you can even work on his bunker with hydralisks).
You allin as zerg with full capacity spawners, no spire at
start... and then you say terran shouldn't be allowed to allin
by auto-casting T1, seems a bit zerg biased to me, doesn't it?
My <W4NN4>BeINnoVation account is at 43/2 terran and 19/0
zerg... is the game equally balanced? Hell no, terran is
overpowered as fuck, yet I have an account that is 19/0 zerg, so
does it really need a buff?
And I don't upgrade capacity early on ever, I always do my
strike opener (1 zerg does 9 strikes, the other does 4 and 1
spire)
And don't tell me 9 strike is aggressive, I've done the math,
both zerg going 9 strike is 2 income less on each zerg than if
they did 1 spire + 4 strike (so if you do slowling, the 9 strike
will actually be more eco), the only thing slowing eco is the
fact that building strike spawners is slightly more pricey than
making a spire... but the spawner gives you units, the spire
only gives you income so it's a good trade.
And yes, 1 shocks defends it, but it's 30 gas in a combat unit
early on.
Ah, why am I even arguing? 19/0 x)
#Post#: 301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: RickSanchez
Date: November 13, 2020, 6:35 am
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Yes, just want to point out a little more that T1 isn't T1.
There are some variations:
T1 Rush (heXnab style) which includes eco'ing after 9th minute
and allows transition into a possible lategame
in opposite T1 Allin (RickSanchez style :D ) which is actually
more or less the same in the beginning of the match but after
9th minute (roughly 250/200-300/300 depending on zerg) stop eco
entirely, build lab, autocast t1, get a genupgrade rarely like
once a minute or less and use the gas for more marineupgrades
instead of eco (15 min deflective, L2 conservation...)
#Post#: 303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 13, 2020, 6:41 am
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"For the other part, the game is already based on the rng
(public lobby) so it is irrelevant. The goal is to reward Terran
for taking risks (pushing fast).
Btw T1 isn't about auto-casting marines... If you do that you
already failed as a t1 pusher.
If Terrans don't push, they deserve to loose so i think it is
fair. Good players are already able to tell with accuracy if the
game is won or not."
My point is: as of now lets say 70% games in random lobby can be
told with good accuracy either they are won or not
other 30% if u are good u can pull some sick comeback like 100
elite push with 2 ions patch as terran or backdooring terran
whos elites are 5s from killing your hive with torra
and I would say those 30% is why I am bothering to play this
mode, for those few games where I can turn around otherwise lost
game
with those changes those percentages will turn into 90%-10%
"If Terrans don't push, they deserve to loose so i think it is
fair."
I mostly agree with that but on the other side I do not belive
it should be 100% accurate always right, just game today I had
zergs who had speed 3 both slowling and creeper up and 5 dmg all
below 20 min mark, it was quite hard to push into that and yet I
do not thing any zerg who pulls something like that should be
granted a victory
#Post#: 305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Main upgrades possible for Zerg hex!
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 13, 2020, 7:04 am
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Yeah sadly whatever your level is, whatever your strategy, if
you are alone against a Zerg that full focus you and your mates
are noobs, it isn't possible to win as Terran^^
If your mates are not good enough there is no counterplay to
that :(
You can't balance that sadly :(
That is why there is the very early leave allowed for players to
not loose their time playing a low lvl game^^
We sure are agree about the game becoming way harder for Terrans
if my ideas are put into the game. But, right now, Terrans are
so overpowered that it's obviously a mistake.
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