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#Post#: 179--------------------------------------------------
Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: RickSanchez
Date: November 10, 2020, 5:05 am
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I think we can agree that if you see early tanklings you can
consider the match already won. I think even tho there should be
situational units no unit should be straight suicide.
Therefore i would like to see an overall buff of these units
which on a sideeffect can make a3+ worth against aggressive
terrans.
Tankling:
Reduce cost for spawner by 10
Reduce base HP by 10
Changed scaling. Instead of +1 on A1 and A3(or 4?) it get +1
Armor and +2 HP with every Armorupgrade.
Primal Roaches:
Increase HP by 15 to 125
Ultralisk:
Increase HP by 20 to 170
That alone still leaves Roaches superior due to Tar Rush'
meatbonus. That's why tar roaches should have some less HP. That
change in particular also has other positive sideeffects since
they are widely considered to be overpowered and are basically
the reason of the gap between A2 and A5 (17600 Minerals btw
which almost gives you no benefit until you get brutas. Primals
and ultra are suicide at the moment.)
Beastlings and Banelings should get a complete rework. You see
them once every 100 games and if you do it is rather a good sign
for terrans.
#Post#: 182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: Turb007
Date: November 10, 2020, 12:07 pm
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As you said, this still leaves primals and ultras not worth
investing in. It is certainly a step in the right direction
though and I like the tankling idea. Personally, I'd like to see
these changes and maybe even cut the cost of primal roach
respawn down to like, 2000; and/or just lower the cost of the
spawners themselves. This would still leave ultras kind of
useless but we'd atleast have something between roaches and a5
then.
#Post#: 187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: Speed
Date: November 10, 2020, 1:31 pm
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See, before italis & firebat ultralisk was the meta...
It doesn't really need a buff, it would be the go-to unit as
soon as italis and firebats are removed. And italis really
should be removed.
I won a game today as zerg because italis exists...
Yes, the fact terran has italis made them lose the game, because
instead of rushing ion they made too many italises and proceeded
to lose the game with my hive being dead with 2 or 3 more
ions^^ They used defensive ions for omega, but we already
reduced terran count to 2, so there wasn't much to spare...
There is certainly some buffs that could be done for zerg, but
buffing a unit that is technically great is not a good thing.
Similar thing about the primal... it's not a horrible unit, at
least for its purpose; stopping T1... with it's 3 armor it's
actually really solid. However the high tech cost + supply cost
makes it a committment that often puts zerg far behind the
terrans that do some firebat / italis strategy.
I really don't think buffing stuff is a good fix...
About the tankling... it's certainly a bad idea before armor 1
(that 1 armor is a big power spike though). I feel like there is
a small window where building a few tanklings after getting
armor 1 on a terran that you know will go hard on the T1 can be
good. What's quite amazing about the tankling is the fact that
even an unupgraded spawner will have almost no idle time even if
it's next to a big spine when rallied at a standard position
armory... so I do feel like it has a good spot right now even,
however making them right away isn't how you should use them and
massing them is a bad idea and on top of that the bankling
upgrade is pretty worthless. I'd never get that upgrade, it's
400 minerals and gives you 2 mineral per dead tankling, so 200
have to die so you have your investment back... that's just way
too slow^^
There's a few changes for zerg that I think might be worth to
test, but isn't really necessary.
Movespeed; Why is a roach faster than a brutalisk? From a
logical point of view it makes sense, the roach is small /
medium sized creature so it's a bit more nimble than the huge
brutalisk... however this is a strategy game, movespeed is an
extremely important attribute for zerg units, it affects idle
time of a spawner, how quickly you can move units to respond
somewhere and how well you can run down a terran army. So from
this point of view, why has a low tier unit, like roach, a
superior speed attribute compared to a high tier unit like
brutalisk?
I also absolutely hate the brutalisk model. I'm not sure if it's
intentionally picked, but it's bothering that brutalisk has one
of the slowest attack animations (I think the "official term" is
something like "weapon point", marines have a very low weapon
point, thors have a huge weapon point, hopefully this example
helps you understand what exactly I'm talking about, it's a bit
tricky^^) this leads to units "dodging" attacks by running out
of range before attack is finished, if weapon point was faster
units that are too close get picked off quicker, which I'd find
helpful^^ I think it's possible to lower the weapon point
regardless of what model a unit uses, so it might be possible to
change this without remodeling brutalisk into something else^^
Better supply scaling for zerg; supply cost goes up by 125 every
time, reducing it to 100 or 110 would already be a big buff for
mid / late game^^
I wish you could patch players x) the game would be amazing with
all players being good & zerg being close (but not quite) even
to terran^^
It's no secret zerg is quite underpowered, but most terrans
don't know how to macro so it's fine usually. And for 2v6 the
team of 2 HAS to be slightly weaker at least^^
And the firebat is just painfully overpowered^^ Sure you can try
to nerf it, but I'd prefer to get it out of the game entirely.
It's a glass cannon with 10 armor, as soon as that 10 armor
isn't sucking up a large majority of the incoming damage they
die^^. The damage output however is beyond ridicoulus, even
brutalisks struggle^^
In practise mode I ran 50 firebats into an unupgraded omega (no
hp up, no dmg up). Only 12-15 died. Again, not going to happen
in a real game, still quite ridicoulus.
#Post#: 192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: medegood
Date: November 10, 2020, 3:08 pm
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As far as your unit upgrades go, i do like them, and i do think
the beastling needs a rework. However, the baneling is just fine
the way it is, and the only upgrade that could really be given
to it would be a buff while on creep so that is better counters
bat pushes, which it already does decently.
#Post#: 198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: Turb007
Date: November 10, 2020, 7:10 pm
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I kind of like FB's and italis. I just want them to be more of a
support unit instead of something one uses as a sole strategy.
Personally, I like to use a single italis for defense at my base
while my marines are out getting work done just in case the zerg
tries to run around my army and attack my base. It atleast gives
me time to retreat and defend before I lose too much. As far as
FB's go, I like the idea of having them as tanks in front of
marines for pushing into big spines and such late game. Maybe if
ultras had a flame resistant upgrade/buff... Beastlings dont
currently serve any purpose so maybe thats something for them
instead.. Hmm..
I may be in the minority here, but I don't think italis needs
nerfed at all. 25 charges is a HUGE investment, so if someone
gets a horde of them - sure, it'll be hard for the zerg to kill
them.. But in reality, that terran should of been able to just
about win the game with ions instead so thats kind of his bad
anyway (you did kind of mention this). Building more than one or
two is kind of a "noob trap" so to speak, like turrets. But I
think having one or potentially two (situational) is fine.
--- Quote ---
> Better supply scaling for zerg; supply cost goes up by 125
every time, reducing it to 100 or 110 would already be a big
buff for mid / late game^^
--- End Quote ---
This could be really good.. I'd like to be able to test that..
Ultimately though, there are so many different ways to balance
this game - I think the best way would be to collect everyones
ideas and put it to a poll. Make a patch, try it out and see if
it works.
#Post#: 200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: ZergTriumph
Date: November 10, 2020, 11:13 pm
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--- Quote from: <heXnab>Speed link ---
>
>
>
> Better supply scaling for zerg; supply cost goes up by 125
every time, reducing it to 100 or 110 would already be a big
buff for mid / late game^^
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I like this idea a lot ;D
#Post#: 203--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 11, 2020, 12:53 am
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If you do that, Zergs will mass spawners you early game even
more, not allowing Terran to expand at all.
This is not what you want.
Terrans should be able to expand early game whatever the zerg is
doing in my opinion. If Terrans know that they can be rebooted
at start, they will not even bother go out unless all of them
expand and that will just make the game over at start^^
We need to do stuff that make Terrans expand and push.
Better give Zergs the possibility to survive early game. Zergs
stength are in mid/late game (better buff that)
#Post#: 212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: ZergTriumph
Date: November 11, 2020, 11:25 am
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A normal strategy game revolves around the meta of expand,
attack and defend. If your opponent expands, you should be able
to counter them by attacking. If your opponent attacks, you
should be able to defend. If your opponent defends, you should
be able to expand.
Some of you seem to not want there to be any counters, but for
both races to just expand expand expand and there be no counter,
other than for terran to try to kill zerg between 15-25 minutes
and then gg if they fail. That isn't a strategy game. It's
just an APM clicker.
#Post#: 213--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: November 11, 2020, 11:34 am
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no, it's called :"Zerg hex" LOL
#Post#: 214--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buff for unused zergunits
DIR By: RickSanchez
Date: November 11, 2020, 11:53 am
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--- Quote from: ZergTriumph link ---
> [...]terran (...) try to kill zerg between 15-25 minutes and
then gg if they fail. [...]
--- End Quote ---
yes.
btw totally off topic. Name of the thread is buff for tankling
primal ultra ty ty feel free to open new thread about hex
concept
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