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#Post#: 2189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: WanWhiteWolf Date: July 27, 2021, 12:29 am
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Terran also need some adjustments.
For example middle is weak for no reason. Either some map
correction to balance it or add an additional extractor nearby.
This way mid is more exposed but there is a benefit for an
additional extractor if you can hold it.
It would also be nice to have a "kill count". If you kill X
amount of units, terran can get something (gas, additional units
...etc). This way if you are heavily focused you have something
extra to boost your income later on. So are not condemned on
high ground and slowly charging a ion for 30 min.
#Post#: 2190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: RickSanchez Date: July 27, 2021, 6:08 am
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#Post#: 2191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: WanWhiteWolf Date: July 27, 2021, 6:31 am
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[quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=239.msg2190#msg2190
date=1627384094]
[quote]BUT: You have to make the lvl 1 armor afterwards to get
more eco[/quote]
Why? xD that makes absolutely no sense. you dont need to do
armor 1 to get more supply..
[/quote]
Maybe I missread the change: "Capacity upgrade for spawners
requires to have Zerg Armor 1."
Isn't capacity upgrade = overlord?
#Post#: 2192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: RickSanchez Date: July 27, 2021, 6:36 am
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#Post#: 2193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: WanWhiteWolf Date: July 27, 2021, 7:23 am
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[quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=239.msg2192#msg2192
date=1627385791]
[quote author=WanWhiteWolf link=topic=239.msg2191#msg2191
date=1627385472]
[quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=239.msg2190#msg2190
date=1627384094]
[quote]BUT: You have to make the lvl 1 armor afterwards to get
more eco[/quote]
Why? xD that makes absolutely no sense. you dont need to do
armor 1 to get more supply..
[/quote]
Maybe I missread the change: "Capacity upgrade for spawners
requires to have Zerg Armor 1."
Isn't capacity upgrade = overlord?
[/quote]
No Capacity upgrade for spawners is the red spawners with higher
max output.
i mean you got it on the other part of the message..
[/quote]
Then I misread. Sure, having +1 extractor for no red spawners at
start is worth it. It's a good tradeoff for the zerg.
#Post#: 2195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: BigNoob Date: July 27, 2021, 9:20 pm
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Should we discuss whether early leaver penalty needs change? The
argument about letting Terrans play ought to apply to Z as well.
#Post#: 2196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: ZergTriumph Date: July 28, 2021, 6:49 am
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[quote author=BigNoob link=topic=239.msg2195#msg2195
date=1627438817]
Should we discuss whether early leaver penalty needs change? The
argument about letting Terrans play ought to apply to Z as well.
[/quote]
I think the very early leaver penalty should be reduced. Right
now it encourages trolling, people who leave very early just to
spite the zerg. Only eliminating one extractor instead of both
would be a good start.
And it should count as a loss no matter when you quit. A lot of
players are record whores who join lobbies, see whether or not
they think they can win, then quit before 2:15 over and over.
#Post#: 2197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: guest99 Date: July 28, 2021, 7:55 am
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Another vote for removing capacity lock.
I also think WanWhiteWolf's idea on some kill count bonus is a
good idea, though I don't know what would be a good way to
implement it. Regardless, something like a bonus for every 500
kills or higher would be better than 50 kills, so that terran's
won't be pressured to "count their kills" for the bonus.
Boosting mineral containers is also an upvote. You get 12
spawners worth of come per supply with containers, vs 11.25 and
lag with lings. Thus, mineral containers are only fractionally
better from an eco standpoint, especially since it's behind
armor 4. Decreasing the supply cost to 12 gives 15 per supply
(but ugly math), or increasing the bonus from +4 to +5 effective
spawners achieves the same eco but makes the math slightly
harder for newbie zergs and math nerds.
Regarding concerted ion rushers, reducing omega spawn time from
2 min to 30 seconds won't do much, though it doesn't hurt to
change it. As you pointed out, these rushers will end the game
in about 20 min, and the combined zerg eco is less than 10k.
Buffing the omega's HP by 1k might help a little bit, as it
would require more than just a single ion and a handful of
marines to kill an upgraded omega. I think that the real issue
is that zerg late early game (12-16 min when defending mass
t1's) is too weak. Besides helping defend against t1's from 2+
terrans, buffing this part should help take down low-ground
turtles at the very least, delaying the ions. Similarly, I find
that terrans forced into low-ground turtle generally get their
italis at aroun 21 min, but it's difficult to deny them as zerg
if just one terran is very active due to a lack of resources.
This a pretty vague suggestion at the moment, unfortunately, but
I'll think harder on it for the next few days.
I also forgot to mention that ultras don't have a
spawner-specific upgrade, so there's another avenue for buffing
them.
A conservative way to deal with early terran leavers is to sync
it with the 11 minute eco penalty for zerg. If the terran leaves
before 11 min, they get a loss. Otherwise, it follows the normal
rule. As someone pointed out, playing as 1-player terran vs zerg
(due to unresponsive teammates) just isn't fun most of the time,
and the game can easily last another half an hour, so a hard
rule against leaving at all is in poor taste. Personally, I
think something like a 6 min cutoff is more appropriate then 11,
but as I said, 11 is quite conservative.
#Post#: 2198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: RickSanchez Date: July 28, 2021, 10:04 am
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#Post#: 2199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Community Version Balance Feedback
By: BigNoob Date: July 28, 2021, 12:10 pm
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[quote author=ZergTriumph link=topic=239.msg2196#msg2196
date=1627472942]
[quote author=BigNoob link=topic=239.msg2195#msg2195
date=1627438817]
Should we discuss whether early leaver penalty needs change? The
argument about letting Terrans play ought to apply to Z as well.
[/quote]
I think the very early leaver penalty should be reduced. Right
now it encourages trolling, people who leave very early just to
spite the zerg. Only eliminating one extractor instead of both
would be a good start.
And it should count as a loss no matter when you quit. A lot of
players are record whores who join lobbies, see whether or not
they think they can win, then quit before 2:15 over and over.
[/quote]
I agree with the losses counting no matter what. W/L seems to be
the best proxy to gauge who's reliable on the team, and I was
confused the other day to see Adam have a 10-0 score on Terran
when he babyrages all the time and leaves when he can't have a
walk in the park against Z. He left cause he couldn't be
bothered to deal with 1 no micro F2 on mid from a shit Z with <
20% win rate lmfao.
As for the penalty, I personally would prefer a heavier income
loss with no building removal. Having to wait for 600 + 220
minerals with reduced income and flat tax only to get the 1st
spire back just feels like a convoluted way to say "fuck you,
zerg".
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