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#Post#: 2064--------------------------------------------------
Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: Forwar01
Date: April 14, 2021, 5:49 pm
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This has to be fixed asap, I love the map I love the ideea
been playing for years coming back and forth to it but now the
whole fun seems to be 0.
As terran i win 95% of the time and as zerg 5% . All it comes
down to if other terrans are noobs or not. If they are at least
average you simpli cannot win vs terrans as zerg, They simply
micro each especialy if they do it at the same time you just
cant match it 1vs3 its humanly impossible. As zerg you need to
have way bigger advantages to match that.
Keep in mind that the map is been out for a while, sc2 is out
for a while. Now most people can do some micro, and it is a
huge advantage. every time you focus one guy the others
imediatly attack.
You have to take into account that some half the people nowdays
have teams, discords etc and they their overall awarness is
much better than what it was when this map was created.
Either something like firelings need to be brought back or some
other buff to be able to trap terrans that are greedy and not
very focused.
Other thing that I tested, I fully focused 1 terran, and he had
no problems in defending. while expanding, I couldnt even force
him back to its high ground. The only time this works is when
they leave their units unatended which is the 5% i talked
about.
Its really not fun anymore neither for terran or zerg, map needs
a heavy rebalance, and even if you dont fully agree with me
everyone has to agree that the winrate on the map is not 50/50
terran/zerg its way more terran same for the picks, even tho
theres only 2 zerg slots theres times where there is only 1 guy
selecting zerg but theres never less than 4 ppl selecting
terran, which just shows how overpowered is terran and how
everyone knows it
#Post#: 2067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: Speed
Date: April 15, 2021, 2:56 am
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You can easily focus a terran to high ground. Try hitting that
capacity button lol.
While I do agree with some of the points made in this post,
terran win rate is FAR from 95%, the large majority of lobbies
are zerg free wins, despite zerg being too weak in theory. And
full focusing 1 guy DEFINETELY hurts them.
And yeah no shit, there's 2 zerg slots and 6 terran slots and
more people pick terran, really? That's perfectly normal in my
opinion, the best way players can distribute themselves is 6
terran 2 zerg because that's how the game will distribute them
anyways, there is literally not point splitting 4 and 4.
And Zerg should not be able to stop terrans from expanding, for
fucks sake, get this shitty idea out of your head, this fucking
bullshit of people spamming capacity and focusing 1 guy to 1 gas
/ high ground, THAT'S THE FUCKING MAIN REASON WE PLAY IN PARTIES
YOU IDIOTS. Simply because YOU make the game unplayable when we
play alone.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk I guess.
#Post#: 2068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: whatshisname
Date: April 15, 2021, 4:05 am
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Thing I agree with:
1) Zerg is unbalanced
2) If you destroy your eco to try and push 1 terran in, you
should be able to push them in
3) You played a game in which you destroyed your eco and didn't
push that terran in
The thing is, this game you've played is not evidence that zerg
is unbalanced on point 2). I was in that game and recognized the
unusual reference to firelings. In this game you failed to push
in said terran, not because the terran is pro level micro but
because you failed to kill any of his 3 gas (while he's in mid
position) focusing entirely on killing his units. It's a shame
you didn't watch the replay before posting on this forum to
correct your understanding of the game. To be clear your game is
only evidence that, a terran with full 3 gas economy (bar a few
fruit farms) can hold and then push out most zerg focus so long
as the zerg doesn't kill his gas.
It raises a point of relative strength in economy (zerg vs
terran) which a large number of mediocre regular (50-100 games)
players seem not to appreciate.
Early game: Zerg starts with more economy and has vastly more
strength than terran. But the high ground makes it impossible to
outright kill a terran.
Mid game: Terran eco scales fast and linearly while there are
still back gases to get/ upgrade. This peaks around 10 mins
(relative to zerg) giving terrans relative strength in 10-20 min
range
Late game: After about 15-20 minutes zerg eco becomes vastly
favoured due to the fact their eco scales exponentially, giving
them relative strength in the late game (25 mins +)
*Nb their are notable powerspikes due to key units which I've
glossed over, but the core eco and relative power points stand
for every game.
TL;DR
Zerg is imbalanced, but not because of the game you played.
Using one stage of the game to judge zerg misses the point that
zerg is designed to win in the late game.
#Post#: 2069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: ZergTriumph
Date: April 15, 2021, 1:34 pm
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Zerg has a chance if there are 4 or fewer terrans who know how
to play. Any more than that and zerg will get steamrolled no
matter how skilled they are.
Most lobbies are unplayable because usually 4 of the terrans
have no idea how to play or think that the best thing to do is
get all 3 gas upgrades on the conyard and then make as many
italis as possible. Likewise, if you pick zerg, you will usually
get a partner who thinks the best thing to do is upgrade every
spawner and then make as many extractors as possible.
There have been a lot of good proposals on this forum that would
help with these issues (capacity lock behind armor 1, giving
zerg an extra extractor at the cost of 15 supply), but the game
developer seems to think it's more important to tinker with
fringe units like beastlings and tanks, and now appears to have
abandoned the game entirely.
#Post#: 2070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: scdpride
Date: April 15, 2021, 4:11 pm
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I have play enough zerg and can conclude with confidence that
terran is more favor than zerg. A stack lobby full of terrans
who can take the initial 3 gas will win 95% of the time.
I hate to say it, but you can determine if you win or lose
usually within the first 30 secs if you're zerg depending on the
terran lobby. What I fail to understand is all the whining I
hear is nerfing zerg aggression. If anything, zerg needs a
buff. While i agree capacity in the early stages hurts your eco
pretty bad, but going toe to toe on eco vs terran will result in
death especially when they secured a outside geyser.
the build i use is agression on 1 side and mass slowing on the
other while hydra defends the rest. purgatory and laggatory is
the only way to win.
#Post#: 2071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: bossypalladin
Date: April 15, 2021, 4:27 pm
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--- Quote from: scdpride link ---
>
> I have play enough zerg and can conclude with confidence that
terran is more favor than zerg. A stack lobby full of terrans
who can take the initial 3 gas will win 95% of the time.
>
> I hate to say it, but you can determine if you win or lose
usually within the first 30 secs if you're zerg depending on the
terran lobby. What I fail to understand is all the whining I
hear is nerfing zerg aggression. If anything, zerg needs a
buff. While i agree capacity in the early stages hurts your eco
pretty bad, but going toe to toe on eco vs terran will result in
death especially when they secured a outside geyser.
>
> the build i use is agression on 1 side and mass slowing on the
other while hydra defends the rest. purgatory and laggatory is
the only way to win.
>
--- End Quote ---
LOL you don't even understand how zerg economy works. You
literally think that making as many extractors as possible is
the best way to grow your economy, and that your teammate isn't
as good because you "have more income" than them. Despite me
explaining it to you 5 **** times during the game.
#Post#: 2072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: Speed
Date: April 15, 2021, 5:02 pm
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42 wins
0 losses
as Zerg
In latest patch of version 3 (the patch with turbo broken
firebats and chemical plant)
Capacity early game? Same amount as losses.
Didn't play a bank for 4.x exclusively, but most games I don't
up any capacity... and my win rate is pretty similar x)
Regarding scdpride I will just say this:
Zerg build 6 slowlings on me, scdpride gets a free pass. Take a
wild guess who took down his rock first... Yup, that's right, I
did. This says a lot about the level of his terran gameplay if
you think about it. (And no, he didn't go for outside gas first
and I didn't bunker up and use my starting marines to hit rock,
he simply floated a ton of gas so he has less mineral income
than the focused terran at 4:30. But hey, at least he's building
a yard at 5:30, so I guess he has a big tech advantage on me).
Yeah well, I just wasted 10min of my life to figure out that
scdpride is a garbage level terran. Holy fuck you're bad dude,
like actually so bad.
#Post#: 2073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: Speed
Date: April 15, 2021, 5:05 pm
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--- Quote from: bossypalladin link ---
>
> [quote author=scdpride link=topic=222.msg2070#msg2070
date=1618521073]
> I have play enough zerg and can conclude with confidence that
terran is more favor than zerg. A stack lobby full of terrans
who can take the initial 3 gas will win 95% of the time.
>
> I hate to say it, but you can determine if you win or lose
usually within the first 30 secs if you're zerg depending on the
terran lobby. What I fail to understand is all the whining I
hear is nerfing zerg aggression. If anything, zerg needs a
buff. While i agree capacity in the early stages hurts your eco
pretty bad, but going toe to toe on eco vs terran will result in
death especially when they secured a outside geyser.
>
> the build i use is agression on 1 side and mass slowing on the
other while hydra defends the rest. purgatory and laggatory is
the only way to win.
>
--- End Quote ---
LOL you don't even understand how zerg economy works. You
literally think that making as many extractors as possible is
the best way to grow your economy, and that your teammate isn't
as good because you "have more income" than them. Despite me
explaining it to you 5 **** times during the game. Moron.
[/quote]
I looked at a replay I had of this guy. He doesn't know how to
play terran either, actual low tier player x) He may hide his
stats, but when you make a defender before 7:30 with zerg only
ever building 1 spawner in addition to the 4 base ones... then
there's no need for stats to tell the story of how low skill you
are. Very tragic.
#Post#: 2075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: bossypalladin
Date: April 15, 2021, 5:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: scdpride link ---
>
> I have play enough zerg and can conclude with confidence that
terran is more favor than zerg. A stack lobby full of terrans
who can take the initial 3 gas will win 95% of the time.
>
> I hate to say it, but you can determine if you win or lose
usually within the first 30 secs if you're zerg depending on the
terran lobby. What I fail to understand is all the whining I
hear is nerfing zerg aggression. If anything, zerg needs a
buff. While i agree capacity in the early stages hurts your eco
pretty bad, but going toe to toe on eco vs terran will result in
death especially when they secured a outside geyser.
>
> the build i use is agression on 1 side and mass slowing on the
other while hydra defends the rest. purgatory and laggatory is
the only way to win.
>
--- End Quote ---
scdpride - Please read this thread about zerg economy. It will
help you out a lot:
HTML https://zerghex.createaforum.com/builds-guides/zerg-economy-101/msg2074/#msg2074
#Post#: 2076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zerg way to weak, hard unbalanced
DIR By: Adam
Date: April 15, 2021, 5:35 pm
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number of things that makes absolutely 0 sense in this topic is
truly impressive... so lets get over them one by one
1) zerg fully focusing 1 terran IS indeed able to push him to
highground, if u didnt manage that then either u are bad, or ur
agroo went too late so terran got enough income off his first 4
fruit farms, usualy even as little as 2 min of freedom are
enough to hold vs zerg with bad micro
2) 5% zerg winratio is (once again) player not race issue, does
zerg loses 100% of the time in 6 man stacked lobby? yes... BUT
(and its rly HUGE BUT) there is never and I mean NEVER 6 rly
good top tier terrans in a lobby, I will say more- unless some
party is playing 4 or even 3 is a bloody miracle, while despite
all this wall of text about :"how long this arcade was here:"
lvl of most terrans is swimming somewhere in some deep DEEP pit,
as such even wr ranging up to 80% and more is very much possible
on zerg... long way from ur 5%
3) this post about when which eco kicks in just gives me a
headache...terran peaking on 10 min??? zerg being stronger on
25??????? good terran if mood struck him can have 1k+ and max
gen on 20 as for zerg eco its just f**k up to the point its not
worth mentioning, even if u go for full eco u will never catch
up to good terran as he will auto cast elites long before u will
get this "adventage" ( tho like said before "good terran" truly
is endangered specie in this game so it doesnt matter)
4) as for scdpride- he is just someone with 0 ability to assess
situation and lvl of agreoo he is receiving
u as zerg may literaly not build anything on him, starting with
spire and 3 lings on other terran and only micro his base units
and he will fall to one gas and later claim how much of full
focus he held... so I would suggest to just ignoe his words in
this regard as he rly is quite disconnected from reality
5) and last thing, u people rly need to stop with the mindset
"terrans on 3 gas- stacked lobby"... 3 gas is not a measure of
good terran, it is ABSOLUTE MINIMUM to be at least considered
decent... good terran will, like I said have 1k eco on 20 min or
kill ur spires on 12-13 and then big spines around 14-15 if he
feels like so while most terrans that manage to fail their way
to 3 gas will do 20 min vet push to take thier nest and claim
that "they did dmg to zerg"
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