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#Post#: 1871--------------------------------------------------
Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: BigNoob Date: February 15, 2021, 4:49 pm
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DISCLAIMER: I figured I should bring attention to this. Both
times I've played against it the Z lost horribly but the terrans
affected were very obviously NOT having fun. tl;dr at bottom.
The new hydras are crazy strong in the early game, which is
great since in the previous patches they were pretty much
useless. However, I've seen an issue arise where Z can just make
like 4 hydras and slowly push creep onto T, and T can't really
do much about it since regen and extra life come back so fast.
I've seen 2 players (around 60% WR) get sequentially pushed back
because of 4 hydras. Granted, the 3rd T immediatelly turtled and
didn't expand or provide support of any kind.
It seemed like there was no way a terran could actually prevent
being forced into their high ground early on because the damage
disparity is just too great (4 hydras w/ regen vs 3 marines +
small mix of reaper/shock). It doesn't make sense to force the
shock upgrade early game since that just fucks up eco and costs
way too much energy (how many shocks would you need to
completely kill off a hydra? Shaving off a layer doesnt matter
because that's a massive energy investment for a 50 second delay
on ONE hydra).
In fact, the only reason I won those games was because the other
Z was pure trash: he went full aggro and despite none of the
other terrans on my side pushing, he ended with 1.5k eco at 30
minutes, with only losses his forward spawners and 2 spires from
my side. He had the same eco as his ally who was pumping hydras,
creep, and banklings (which might actually end up being higher
eco than my Z). I had so little pressure I just walked an army
to the other side and killed that instead (felt like it was
higher yield than walking up a ramp with suspicious dots and 2
big spines). Idk how different it would be if my Z were more
competent. Either way, that game got delayed way too much
because I needed to tech up to walk up the ramp of a 30 apm zerg
(I ain't good enough to pull off that RickSanchez T1 push
alone).
I don't think tuning hydras more will make sense, unless you can
make their stats non-stationary wrt time, but at this rate why
not just lock creep tumors behind armor 1?
tl;dr: Is this propaganda to have creep unlocked after a1 and
allow scans to reach high ground entrance? yes.
#Post#: 1872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: Turb007 Date: February 15, 2021, 10:05 pm
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[quote author=BigNoob link=topic=198.msg1871#msg1871
date=1613429346]
why not just lock creep tumors behind armor 1?
[/quote]
What a great question. Creep tumors, nests, and capacity
upgrades.
#Post#: 1874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: Speed Date: February 16, 2021, 5:36 am
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Yeah, if nest and creep tumor (and capacity) were locked behind
armor 1 / 10 min game time , I kinda prefer the latter, armor 1
is 800 minerals, which makes these all-in cheeses even more
all-in but doesn't truly prevent them, terrans would get to set
up.
I got focused as 2nd player by some hydra rusher, so I had a
little bit (4-ish minutes) to set up, needed to make fast armory
and research overcharge, managed to target down creep tumors as
the zerg started them and held on to 2 gas that way. I was super
delayed and tilted that game, but I held everything zerg threw
at me and even took 2 big spines later. (was a 30+min game and I
had 40 elites towards end)
A solo zerg spend his time cheesing 2-3 terrans with aggression
(mix of capacity and hydra stuff), with the last being Oayoo, I
was completely free all game. Believe it or not, but a solo zerg
that never passed 4k income really struggled dealing with 85
elites at 33minutes.
These types of strategies are truly useless if there is any good
terran that is getting through early game freely.
#Post#: 1878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: Oayoo Date: February 16, 2021, 6:14 am
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capacity lock before A1
tumor lock before A1
nest lock before A1 or +
Rework Brutalisks to have real late game unit because it is a
really useless unit.
With these modifications, Zerg hex suddenly become an incredible
game again.
Hydras are really nice right now.
#Post#: 1879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: Speed Date: February 16, 2021, 6:26 am
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[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=198.msg1878#msg1878
date=1613477692]
Hydras are really nice right now.
[/quote]
They are really good at face tanking T1s in small numbers... I'm
not really happy with them, but 3-6 used correctly can stall and
demoralize terrans nicely. I think they do need some more
improvement (along the lines of less hp, but more range), but at
least they are not this useless super late game trash they were
before...^^
#Post#: 1896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: WMaster Date: February 19, 2021, 11:57 am
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I agree early Hydralisk pushes are a problem, there's hardly
anything Terran can to against this. I think that delaying Creep
Tumors and Nests is a good option. First I thought delaying
Creep Tumors till Armor 2, so there's really no chance for this
kind of abuse, but this does also affect the Zerg not being able
to regain creep for some time, so lets first see how an Armor 1
requirement does.
If it doesn't prove sufficient to prevent this strategy then
there's also an option for Shock Troopers to remove creep with
Ground Pulse.
#Post#: 1903--------------------------------------------------
Re: Early Game Hydra Cheese (4.7+)
By: Oayoo Date: February 19, 2021, 4:04 pm
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lock capacity under A1, PLEASE SIR
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