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#Post#: 1800--------------------------------------------------
Patch Notes 4.7
By: WMaster Date: February 11, 2021, 10:02 am
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Patch 4.7 went live on 11.02.2021
Careful, Large Spines cover a bit more area.
[list]
[li]New Zerg Base
[list]
[li]Inner base buildable area is reduced during makeover.
(Losing 220 tiles) (684 tiles remain)[/li]
[li]Increased area covered by Large Spine Crawlers by
repositioning and adding 2 more.[/li]
[li]Introduced a Zerg defensive barrier that prevents attacking
through around the inner base.[/li]
[li]Raised East and West Nest locations by one cliff level.[/li]
[li]Placed permanent creep within inner base and a short
distance outside the barrier.[/li]
[li]Zerg now has permanent vision within the inner base.[/li]
[li]Scans no longer give visability within the inner base, only
a radar effect.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Hydralisk
[list]
[li]Now start with +1 life.[/li]
[li]Removed Hydralisk Size upgrade.[/li]
[li]Decreased maximum lives from +3 to +2.[/li]
[li]Increased regeneration rate from 0.4 to 3.0.[/li]
[li]Decreased life gaining time from 120 to 50 sec.[/li]
[li]Model is now a regular Hydralisk model when the Hydralisk
has no lives left.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Baneling
[list]
[li]Now is a light unit.[/li]
[li]Decreased health from 90 to 30.[/li]
[li]Increased armor from 0 to 3.[/li]
[li]Removed +100% damage bonus to Armored.[/li]
[li]Added effect: Launching 3 Acid Spores to random locations
when exploding, dealing 25 damage to impact area.[/li]
[li]Removed Spawner unit count limitation.[/li]
[li]Spawner training time increases exponentially by 10% for
every unit still alive, starting from 45 seconds.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Large Spine Crawler
[list]
[li]Increased base damage from 70 to 75.[/li]
[li]Increased splash damage from 60%/35%/20% to
60%/40%/20%.[/li]
[li]Increased splash radius from 0.7/1.2/1.5 to
0.7/1.2/1.7.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Construction Yard
[list]
[li]Renamed research 'Sentry Supercharge' to 'Plasma
Cannons'.[/li]
[li]Can now construct a single Siege Tank which requires 'Plasma
Cannons'.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Siege Tank Rework
[list]
[li]Can no longer be trained from the Barracks, can now only be
trained from the Construction Yard.[/li]
[li]Can now only have one at a time.[/li]
[li]Siege Tanks are visible to the Zerg at all times.[/li]
[li]Can now upgrade itself, but upgrades are lost when
destroyed.[/li]
[li]Now has 2 attack abilities, both significantly stronger than
before.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Other
[list]
[li]Infestors can no longer attack neutral units.[/li]
[li]Sheep and Cow farms can now properly cancel training by
pressing ESC.[/li]
[li]Gas Extraction can now only be researched when the
Construction Yard is built outside the main base.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[/list]
#Post#: 1802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Speed Date: February 11, 2021, 12:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
-Tank - useless
-Large Spine buff - kinda nice, but it doesn't add to skill
expression at all :/
-Hydralisk - 7 range? Can't trade against skilled terrans due to
marine range advantage, I like the direction, but these stats
are not going to work.
-Baneling - meme (same as tank, useless)
-New zerg base - I like to be able to scan high ground to see if
zerg have eco and / or infused, but I'm fine with this
information denied from terran, overall not a huge fan though.
Yep, my expectations were met, I expected a bad patch, I got
one. Literally no change for early capacity which is a
fun-killer for 1 terran (sometimes me, sometimes some other
unlucky bast4rd). Hydra change could have been nice, but it
needs to be even with marines on range (8.0) to have a chance to
trade (and 8.5 or 9 would be a lot better...). Tank = useless,
way too expensive and slow to be even relevant. If you're that
rich and make tank you deserve to get flamed for not pushing
with marines. Please give back old tank, it was 100x more useful
and awesome lol, cannot use new tank for troll pushes. New zerg
base... not a fan, but it's not too bad I guess, needs testing.
Big spine... not a fan either, encourages turtle ion play over
pushing.
Hard to push --> don't push at all, ion instead.
Zerg should have to eco, and terrans should have to stop it, not
the other way around. Capacity ruins the game, why is it not
changed? Should be locked behind armor 1 or 10-15minute game
time...^^ guess that's not going to happen :(
It is hard to balance this out, but if zerg isn't pushable then
the game will be really boring, I don't think changing big spine
is a good way to go about it either, I'd prefer hydralisk
changes until they are useful, but not impossible to push
against. T1 marines' weakness is their low health, but that is
irrelevant if they don't get hit, a well designed hydra with a
good player controlling it can be a proper counter in my
opinion. 7 range hydra is not it though x)
#Post#: 1803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: ZergTriumph Date: February 11, 2021, 12:34 pm
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Thank you Wmaster for finally buffing zerg. But please listen
to Speed and adopt his recommendations.
#Post#: 1804--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Buggo Date: February 11, 2021, 12:45 pm
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Terrible inner base wall, less playable.
Killing Terrain strategy with the possibility of the reaper.
Noob zerg is likely to lose anyway, with or without that zerg
wall.
Pro zerg can defense cheese anyway, and it's fun to defense
cheese. Simply killed more strategy and big brain play.
And 1 siege tank only ... great, one more strategy is gone. Now,
is just marine fuking go!
This game shouldn't be designed for ppl with 5 apm. No matter
how much so called balance the game gets, skill can't be
balanced
#Post#: 1808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: ExtraLemon Date: February 11, 2021, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You're halfway there WMaster. Soon, Terrans will have so many
new and interesting playstyles for Zerg Hex. I can't wait for
patch 10.0 where I can click a button. get dressed, go out to
eat, then come back to a win screen 45 minutes later. Truly
revolutionary. In fact, you should just make the defensive
barrier go all the way around, so people can enjoy Zerg Hex as
it was meant to be played: a peaceful farming game where both
sides watch their unit number tick up.
On a more serious note: In Changes Take 2, you said this
[quote]In my opinion there should be no problem with some
suboptimal strategies as long as it introduces some unique
traits. I think the term noob trap is used a bit too loosely, in
my eyes a trap would only qualify if it serves a similar
purpose, has similar traits and has a lower effectiveness for
its combined tech, train and maintain cost compared to something
else. Perhaps options without any contribution towards winning
could also be considered a trap, but generally these are rare. I
think allowing for some new but suboptimal playstyles would be
good for strategic diversity. Some might say they would have
less enjoyable games due to their allies being not as effective
as they could be. But who’s to say that they have not chosen the
most effective strategy for their specific skillset. Suboptimal
strategies can also become the most optimal when considering
counter play, although there is still to improve upon that
matter.
[/quote]
as part of your reasoning for these changes. Intentionally
putting in strategies that are clearly suboptimal in the place
of niche-but-useful strategies is awful. Siege tanks had a
fairly effective, if rare use before. Now, they're clearly worse
than any other option in the hands of a skilled player. This
does the opposite of increasing strategic diversity. You're
essentially removing an option for skilled Terrans while
preventing unskilled Terrans from ever improving beyond the
limits of the tools they have. A player who spends 200 games
playing with Siege Tanks will never be as good as one who spent
200 playing normally. This is a noob trap, where you're
providing an accessible option to newer Terrans which will
ultimately limit their skill and contribution to the game.
There are no cases where a decent player will use a siege tank
in its current iteration.
#Post#: 1809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: RickSanchez Date: February 11, 2021, 1:24 pm
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I like the aesthetic of the zergwall.
#Post#: 1811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Speed Date: February 11, 2021, 1:58 pm
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[quote author=ExtraLemon link=topic=189.msg1808#msg1808
date=1613071388]
There are no cases where a decent player will use a siege tank
in its current iteration.
[/quote]
I second this. I tested the siege tank in solo practise game, it
takes 3 minutes and tons of money to upgrade it, empowering the
next attack triggers a 60s cooldown on all abilities, delaying
the actual usage of the tank by another minute, for a total of
4. I would need ingame testing to say this 100%, but even under
perfect conditions (4+ gas, low pressure all game) I don't
think I can get out a tank shot with enough dmg to oneshot
slowling spawners (250HP), because it needs to be "empowered" by
tank's 3rd ability to exceed 250 dmg, before 12 minutes,
meanwhile with T1 I can literally (and this is no theory, I've
done this several times in real games) take the first big spine
at 12minutes and few seconds.
I'll actually put some numbers here.
T1 push investment:
50m / 100v (armory)
50v (overcharge)
200v (shatter)
250v (pen)
30 x 15m /5v --> 450m / 150v (30x T1 marine)
10x generator upgrade, the best way to calculate is to add the
cheapest upgrade (32m) with the most expensive one (10th up is
50m) and mutiply with half the amount (10/2=5) so 5x82=410m
---------------
910m / 750v
Tank investment to fire 1 attack that deals 250+ dmg
50m / 100v (yard)
140v (wall lvl 1)
150v (wall lvl 2)
160v (wall lvl 3)
50m / 200v (Plasma cannons)
400m / 100v (tank)
300m / 50v (modulation)
200m / 50v (modulate) (this ability is 4k energy btw, I'll only
mention this cost but won't factor it since T1 has an energy
consumption that is impossible to calculate)(also this ability
triggers a 1min cooldown for all tank abilities)
200m / 25v (plasma cannon) (this ability also costs 4k energy,
also triggers 1min cooldown on all skills)
----------------
1200m / 775v
And this is what you pay to take out a bunch of spawners in a
3.5 (radius) sized area. Then it will take you 2 minutes to use
modulate (200m / 50v / 4k energy) and the plasma cannon (200m /
25v / 4k energy) again.
tl;dr if you make a tank you are either memeing, trolling,
griefing or a complete moron.
And no, I don't want a tank buff, just give back the old tank,
at least one could use it to properly meme.
#Post#: 1812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Adam Date: February 11, 2021, 2:01 pm
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Since critic (both consturctive one and flame one) we already
have covered I will skip this part and say I actualy like this
patch(for zerg side, have yet to test tank)
new base is rly nice watching terran without map awernes go in
BETWEEN 2 big spines rly made my day, big spines themselves no
longer being bitches for t1s to own also feels great
highhround- I also rly like those changes, from simple fact that
I can now actualy use all of this space istead of like 1/3 that
was safe before all the way to blocked scans, as a zerg who dont
rly play full agroo at the start and focus more on eco into
late(er) tech aka infused this is crucial, to hit infused timing
and surprise some terran is one of the most important things to
do and before terrans could "counter" this with laughable cost
of 1-2 charges
as for banes I didnt tested them yet personaly so wont comment
but I feel there can be place for them
tank- like I said I didnt have yet oportunity to see as in my
todays terran game I wasnt allowed to leave my base
which brings us to place where I sadly need to agree with speed
complain- capacity need to be locked behing armor or time, at
this point its just "dont allow 1 terran play, insta loss if
there is more than 1" button
I also agree on hydra part- its a step in right direction but as
long as hydra will have less range than rins it will be useless
#Post#: 1813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Speed Date: February 11, 2021, 2:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I might need to test hydra actually. I ran 40 T1s at 15 hydras
and used power field and overcharge on marines and the hydras
still won the fight, and that type of engage is extremely T
sided, I expected hydras to get massacred, so maybe even with 7
range they are not that horrible? I'm not a fan of these hydras
yet, but they might be a lot better than I assumed they would be
lol.
#Post#: 1814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.7
By: Speed Date: February 11, 2021, 3:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ok, hydras have high ground vision, please fix this
immediately...
And while you are at it, capacity, you know what has to be done.
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