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#Post#: 1643--------------------------------------------------
Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: BigNoob Date: January 12, 2021, 5:57 pm
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So, tanklings are pretty shit. The hotfix doesnt do much vs
turtle, and their increased supply + mineral cost doesn't really
justify using them over another slow ling spawner. To those who
have played this game to death, how do you see TvZ interactions
changing if we change shatter damage depending on whether
tanklings are primary hits vs bounce hit?
Examples I had in mind:
1- If tankling is primary target, shatter damage onto a unit
that is NOT a tankling is further reduced; no change if attack
bounces from tankling to tankling to prevent nullifying shatter
as a whole.
2- If primary target is not tankling and shatter hits tankling,
tankling takes 0 damage (basically pt 1 but tankling is bounce
target).
The tankling/shatter interactions can be further tuned by mixing
in tech lab level/armor upgrades; they can be made completely
obsolete after a certain tier, or maintain unit specific
interactions. For the latter I was thinking the effect remains
if bounces are strictly T1s, so bruta bounce onto tanklings will
work the same way it does now, but T3 marines will deal
SLIGHTLY less to tankling/slowling combo (this could possibly
be abused by late game massing of slow/tank, so idk).
Whenever I play T, I feel like the only thing that can hurt me
after I get shatter is energy shortage, at which point there
will be so many spawners on me that my teammates are free to eco
and kill. I'd be so daring as to say that shatter is the
strongest upgrade in the game, since for a low cost of 200 gas
we can cut down on micro and eco up; the benefits compound so
early it's insane. I'm a noob Z, but whenever I see that a T has
shatter, I basically get 3~4 festors and focus eco with the
exception of packed mass slowlings (not sure if they matter,
tbh).
#Post#: 1645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: Turb007 Date: January 12, 2021, 9:55 pm
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Tanklings...... Tanklings... Why does that sound familiar..
Hmm.. Oh! You must be talking about that bunker buster unit that
doesn't bust bunkers!! Yeah I'm not sure about all that man.
Sounds like you're trying to change the unit so that its purpose
is to drain energy? HAH! What a dumb idea. That's never what
they were actually intended to be used for, clearly they are
meant to bust bunkers, hence the name "Tankling".
*Drunkish sarcasm left the chat*
Honestly, I've seen a lot worse ideas. For this to work, they
would need to be limited or moved back an armor level or
something of the like. Since the hotfix on them though, I don't
see them as a pressing concern. I would much rather have other
things (stated numerous times by numerous people across this
forum) addressed first.
#Post#: 1647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: BigNoob Date: January 13, 2021, 3:40 am
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Yeah, I didn't think it would solve any of the core issues; I
just wanted tanklings to be less of a net loss for new players
and idk, maybe live up to their names somehow. It's going to be
hard to have a good patch when the player base has different
needs. The rank/casual system with different unit configs is
probably going to solve it since right now the patches are
trying to please both tiers and it's largely missing both. But
then how do you justify/implement a transition, since builds
will adapt to unit stats?
Kind of discouraging to know that even the best Z players will
lose because certain composition of Terran players can't be
beat.
#Post#: 1651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: Speed Date: January 13, 2021, 7:06 am
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Like Turbo said, this idea makes much more sense than
"bunkerbuster" change.
Shatter is... not *that* strong, it's a rather defensive
anti-unit upgrade, if marines attack buildings there is no
shattering laser spread (neither to other buildings or nearby
units). However it does help with clearing units a lot, which
helps saving energy + pushing into position where you can
actually attack structures. I love rallying my strikes on a
terran who just built armory to encourage him to get shattering
laser, because it's 200 gas that is not economy and not
penetrating laser^^. I've totally killed big spines without
researching shattering (didn't get any attention from zerg), but
never without penetrating laser^^.
I don't dislike the idea of making tanklings a soft shattering
laser counter, though I'd prefer changes that make zerg gameplay
more micro heavy, instead of even more strategic decision
making.
#Post#: 1658--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: Turb007 Date: January 13, 2021, 10:22 am
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[quote author=BigNoob link=topic=167.msg1647#msg1647
date=1610530810]
I just wanted tanklings to ... idk, maybe live up to their names
somehow.
[/quote]
^^ Me too dude.
#Post#: 1660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: blah Date: January 13, 2021, 12:41 pm
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[quote author=Turb007 link=topic=167.msg1645#msg1645
date=1610510107]
Tanklings...... Tanklings... Why does that sound familiar..
Hmm.. Oh! You must be talking about that bunker buster unit that
doesn't bust bunkers!! Yeah I'm not sure about all that man.
Sounds like you're trying to change the unit so that its purpose
is to drain energy? HAH! What a dumb idea. That's never what
they were actually intended to be used for, clearly they are
meant to bust bunkers, hence the name "Tankling".
*Drunkish sarcasm left the chat*
Honestly, I've seen a lot worse ideas. For this to work, they
would need to be limited or moved back an armor level or
something of the like. Since the hotfix on them though, I don't
see them as a pressing concern. I would much rather have other
things (stated numerous times by numerous people across this
forum) addressed first.
[/quote]
agreed, zerg is too weak. needs a stronger mid to late game as
vets counter everything but bruta and teching to bruta takes too
long.
#Post#: 1662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tanklings and Shatter Interactions
By: BigNoob Date: January 13, 2021, 5:31 pm
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[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=167.msg1651#msg1651
date=1610543175]
Like Turbo said, this idea makes much more sense than
"bunkerbuster" change.
Shatter is... not *that* strong, it's a rather defensive
anti-unit upgrade, if marines attack buildings there is no
shattering laser spread (neither to other buildings or nearby
units). However it does help with clearing units a lot, which
helps saving energy + pushing into position where you can
actually attack structures. I love rallying my strikes on a
terran who just built armory to encourage him to get shattering
laser, because it's 200 gas that is not economy and not
penetrating laser^^. I've totally killed big spines without
researching shattering (didn't get any attention from zerg), but
never without penetrating laser^^.
I don't dislike the idea of making tanklings a soft shattering
laser counter, though I'd prefer changes that make zerg gameplay
more micro heavy, instead of even more strategic decision
making.
[/quote]
I see the shatter upgrade as some kind blanket of insurance
policy in case zerg F2s you or whatever, and it kind of fits the
idea that most average terrans are more defensive as we slowly
map out our understanding of the game. If micro becomes a more
prominent tool in a zerg's kit then shatter would indubitably
become even more salient to save some APM.
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