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#Post#: 1640--------------------------------------------------
Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good Terr
ans
By: ZergHexIsLife Date: January 12, 2021, 9:48 am
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I suggest allowing the game to be played in one of two modes,
casual & ranked. Balance the ranked mode with the assumption
Terrans aren't all just a bunch of newbies.
Currently as we all know, the game is only balance provided two
terrans are new to the game, and the others are not pro. This is
nice for a game full of newer players who want to learn how to
play, but removes all possibility of fun once you have a few
people who know what they are doing (The outcome is sealed,
terran will always win).
Really simple ideas that would then fix balance issue (And make
the game enjoyable for those who aren't new):
- Lower how fast the cost of supply upgrades increases for Zerg
- Give hydras +1 basic range
- Slightly decrease the cost of armour tech
- Allow mineral containers to be built at armour 3
- Fix ion cannon + italis warp in instavictory (Just don't let
them warp in too close to the hives)
Obviously all of these ideas together might be too much, but to
have these in a mode designed for average/good players instead
of noobs would make the game a whole lot more fun!
Do you think this could satisfy both parties on the balance
debate? It's not in question that zerg are only fun to play
against crappy Terrans atm (Even though id argue beating bad
players isn't that satisfying)
#Post#: 1641--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Speed Date: January 12, 2021, 12:18 pm
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Unless armor costs are ridicoulusly low zerg will just be
speedrunned with T1 marines essentially making all the tweaks
useless^^.
#Post#: 1642--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Turb007 Date: January 12, 2021, 2:33 pm
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[quote author=ZergHexIsLife link=topic=166.msg1640#msg1640
date=1610466500]
- Fix ion cannon + italis warp in instavictory (Just don't let
them warp in too close to the hives)
[/quote]
Guys, this is not a problem. 2 infused roach with 10ish attack
ups counters this if they're spawned already. 5 hydras with
minimal attack ups counters this. 1 tora counters this. If you
see +3 people going for ion, its pretty cheap to make 5 hydras
around the 28-30 min mark and throw them near the hive. Very
simple.
As for the other changes, no. Just make the skill ceiling for
zerg higher so the brainless zerg players aren't any stronger
than they already are in pubs. There's been plenty of good ideas
on how to do this throughout the forum, they just keep getting
over looked.
#Post#: 1644--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: blah Date: January 12, 2021, 7:54 pm
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stasis of hydra is pretty simple too.
i say ditch the 5 tiers and just make it three. there is a huge
gap between roach and the only other viable unit in the game and
it takes too much time to reach there.
and get rid of the energy requirement for infestor units. This
delays zergs too much. or make hives generate energy for these
spawners.
hydra might be more viable offensively if they could transport
through creep tumours.
or have some infestors spawn at each tier upgrade.
#Post#: 1646--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Turb007 Date: January 12, 2021, 10:05 pm
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[quote author=blah link=topic=166.msg1644#msg1644
date=1610502867]
stasis of hydra is pretty simple too.
[/quote]
I mean, there is plenty of time to pre-spread 5 hydras. If we do
super quick math here, 5 stasis to kill spread hydras = 20
charges. 4 adepts = 100 charges. 1 ion = 40 charges. 5
powerfields = 10 charges. Thats 170 charges. 170/40 = 4.25 ions.
If terrans have that much energy, you're more than likely dead
anyway. And this is assuming that the zerg doesn't have any
infused or toras around the 30 minute mark which would drop this
dead in its tracks.
#Post#: 1648--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Adam Date: January 13, 2021, 4:43 am
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italis rush being considered actual problem x)
thats something else I will admit, I never thought I will see
something weirder than ecanos problem of needing pylons storing
energy so his gen wont get full but u managed to top that
good job
#Post#: 1650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: ZergHexIsLife Date: January 13, 2021, 6:35 am
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I don't think this post descending into an Italis debate is very
on-topic. Lets assume for now that it isn't a problem then and
get back to the matter in hand: Vastly different win rates based
on different (but homogeneous) levels of player skill within the
game.
The point here is that beyond a relatively low skill bar, I'm
not talking anything close to diamond league players here, just
above average Terrans, the Zerg players literally cannot win.
I would like this to be addressed in a simple way whilst not
ruining the game for new players, I believe a mode that is
balanced differently (But also simply in order to make it easy
for the developer) based on the assumption you have 6 Terrans
who know their stuff could provide more fun for those of us who
are bored of rolling over every game as Terran against Zergs of
similar Build Order/Micro ability to ourselves
Remember, in order to maintain two game modes easily, basic
differences to upgrade costs, unit range, etc... are all far
more viable and simple options than new/removed/changed
abilities.
To understand my point of view here: I'm a high diamond/low
master player with very similar skilled friends who all enjoy
this game, but we cannot play it together because regardless of
what team anybody goes on the Terran will ALWAYS win :( but it
is an issue for random public games too where people would like
more of a challenge is Terran.
#Post#: 1652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 13, 2021, 7:28 am
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We've tried the pro-mode thing. It's called Zerg Hex squaremode.
The issue with that is as soon as one subdecent player joins
it's an instawin for zerg. "Well then only let players join that
know how to play" one might say.
Let me tell you a story: I once got a random zerg teammate. He
seemed fairly nice and propably was also very good looking in
real life. So I compared our winrates for size and noticed his
was very small. Infact it was 0-1 for both terran and zerg. Half
way on my way out of the door I asked the one question I will
never ask again: "Do you know how to play?" badummmtssssss He
said: "Yes"
And he did build tanklings (back when they were op) in
semi-reasonable locations. So I thought to myself it wouldn't
hurt too much to stay a little longer. And then he upgraded his
spawners. Then he got the bankling upgrade on his first supply.
I told him to not upgrade spawners and that the bankling upgrade
will never pay off and he just delayed our eco by like 7 mins
doing all this. He looked at me with his big brown surely
beautiful and very innocent eyes: "I don't believe you!"
I was about to slam my hand into my face, luckily remembered the
glasses and stopped last second. But not giving up I explained
to him that in order to get money he need extractors and not
banklings. He seemed confused but was willing to give my way a
try and put his additional extractors right next to the existing
ones behind his nest.. There is more to this story, maybe it
will make it into a yt video if I still have the footage.
Bottom line: If people are bad enough they don't even realize
how bad they are. So whatever you try to keep noobs and pros
seperated will NOT work.
Thanks for reading!
#Post#: 1654--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: ZergHexIsLife Date: January 13, 2021, 7:44 am
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Haha, okay i see your point, but a simple solution would be to
just have it as an option in-game such as Adrenaline mode within
Squadron TD, then only make this option available in games where
all players already have X number of games played.
Of course no system is perfect, but i would rather have 25% of
my games ruined by a bad player than 90% of my games ruined by
the innate impossibility of a Zerg victory. And for all who do
not want that, no need to vote for it.
#Post#: 1656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Casual/Ranked to give Zerg more than 0% win vs average/good
Terrans
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 13, 2021, 9:52 am
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also I don't why you are losing 90% of your zerg games in random
lobbies. You can beat 4 decent terrans fairly easily, given that
your teammate knows how to build spawners and extractors. But
you need to understand how to eco.
"Allow mineral containers to be built at armour 3" and that
statement shows you probably need to do some ketchup. Why would
you want containers earlier when just slowlings are not only
cheaper but also provide a little more energy drain on the
terrans. :)
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