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#Post#: 1559--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: WMaster Date: January 7, 2021, 12:11 pm
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Hello folks,
I would consider doing a hotpatch just for Tanklings if they
ruin most games by being too strong.
So I would like to ask if they indeed ruin most games to your
experience. And perhaps some suggested values for their damage
bonus to improve it. Currently they have +9 damage on top of
their 3 base damage, and it increases +0.5 per attack upgrade.
Also feel free to note that you would need some more time
playing the patch before making a judgement. It's just in case
it's really obvious they are in a bad spot.
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 1560--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Adam Date: January 7, 2021, 12:16 pm
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like I said in patch notes - if there are at least 2 decent
terrans on side at some point they will hold tanks allin and
then zerg is in such eco hole ts have quite easy time
sadly 2 decent terrans on side is way more rare than it sounds
even more so in terms of pressure holding and if u are alone and
ur allies just fall in 30s there is nothing u can do other than
leave the game
so yea overall they are overtuned
#Post#: 1561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 7, 2021, 12:19 pm
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[quote author=Adam link=topic=160.msg1560#msg1560
date=1610043417]
like I said in patch notes - if there are at least 2 decent
terrans on side at some point they will hold tanks allin and
then zerg is in such eco hole ts have quite easy time
sadly 2 decent terrans on side is way more rare than it sounds
even more so in terms of pressure holding and if u are alone and
ur allies just fall in 30s there is nothing u can do other than
leave the game
so yea overall they are overtuned
[/quote]
I agree, they definitely need some revisiting :)
#Post#: 1562--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Speed Date: January 7, 2021, 12:49 pm
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For me it's just another design issue, tankling is the hardest
to kill early game unit due to 50HP and potentially even 1 armor
(which is a big deal pre-armory) so it's silly to give that unit
the (by far) best early game anti structure dmg (better than
roach in case you aren't aware), even if it has low damage
against units.
I did a small stream on new patch
(
HTML https://www.twitch.tv/SpeedSCII),
first game is me getting
tankling all-inned and there is no way to hold it imo, I even
struggle to set up my bunker (I'm confident in saying the
majority of terrans would have have just died within 10minutes).
I'm also playing zerg later and I'm doing what I'd consider the
"best" capacity pressure / all-in zerg can do, while it might
not be the best to some, personally I hate playing against it
the most. Tanklings are useful for this style, but it works with
3x ling 3x creeper, too.
I didn't collect too much experience vs. tanklings for now, I
feel like the "best" response is to mass scvs and simply outheal
the dmg and use 2 shocks ground pulse & some auto attacks to
clear a large stack of units every now and then. Yes, you will
need a ton of SCVs, no, I don't think it's a great response, I
just think it's the best you can do.
Zerg hex is a game of power spikes, zerg can chose to fully
upgrade capacity early on and focus 1 terran at a time (like I
did in my stream) and they will be stronger for a while, but
they cannot keep that, slowly terrans will build economy, units
and get generator ups and hold, so zerg needs to transition
behind this aggression (hence why I'm building 3 spires on my
first supply). The tankling anti-structure damage amplifies this
early game power spike but becomes less or rather totally
irrelevant as game goes on, especially when terrans hit their
first major power spike, which is the armory and the "base"
upgrades (overcharge, shattering laser, penetrating laser). That
is the the power spike zerg struggles so much with, and the
tankling change only helps in the sense of delaying / denying
terrans from hitting that power spike with the damage it can do
early on. That's something ling & creeper + capacity
accomplished to an extend, too. When it comes to turtles... they
use a yard anyways so either you break them with tanklings as
they try to get their yard up / right after or you won't break
them with tanklings at all.
In conclusion: the tankling change in my opinion accomplished
nothing but amplify a power spike for zerg that was already very
strong. It doesn't help with zerg's lacking mid game and zerg's
issues with mid / late game.
#Post#: 1563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: RickSanchez Date: January 7, 2021, 12:55 pm
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Also it is TANKling. why not revert this totally useless (and
yes even overtuned) damage and fit their role? Give them +1
armor and maybe even +1-2hp for every armor upgrade and they
instantly become a thing without being out of control. They just
drain exceptionally well over a long period of time. Giving them
damage made no sense imo.
#Post#: 1566--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: blah Date: January 7, 2021, 7:09 pm
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i think more focus is needed on zerg late game. vets counter
everything up to brutalist and it would be nice to see some
options there like fewer tier upgrades. as it is i don't even
see bruta anymore as terran, and as zerg beating terrans with
established bases with roaches is already gg.
#Post#: 1568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Oayoo Date: January 7, 2021, 7:39 pm
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We are going back to what i was saying at the start of this
forum.
Terrans must be strong early to allow them to play.
Therefore Zergs shouldn't be strong early. (capacity upgrade
should be totally reworked and tanklings reverted back with
maybe a little buff like a spell: make the tankling able to
create a 2x2 structure allowing zerg to create a simcity with
them.)
Early units should only be economic/defensive/micro units.
You don't need to create a unit to break walls because Zergs
already have a lot of them ====> ravators, creeper upgrade,
brutalisks, torralisks, omegalisks.
#Post#: 1570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: AAAAPPPPP Date: January 7, 2021, 9:51 pm
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Tanklings are still trash. A competent terran can defend from
them easily and they put the zerg in the hole too much
econ-wise. Only useful against bad players against whom any unit
would work
#Post#: 1571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Oayoo Date: January 7, 2021, 9:56 pm
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Yard upgrade ===> buff late game terran
tanklings upgrade ====> buff zerg early game
I am wondering why Wmaster did the opposite of what the game
needs.
#Post#: 1572--------------------------------------------------
Re: Perhaps Tanklings Are Overtuned
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 8, 2021, 4:06 am
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[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=160.msg1571#msg1571
date=1610078204]
Yard upgrade ===> buff late game terran
tanklings upgrade ====> buff zerg early game
I am wondering why Wmaster did the opposite of what the game
needs.
[/quote]
clearly just to aggravate you and totally not to try out
different things and put some fresh air into the game :P
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