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#Post#: 1546--------------------------------------------------
Terran Eco Build
By: Turb007 Date: January 6, 2021, 8:06 pm
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So during these server issues, I decided to screw around in
practice mode for awhile to figure some random things out that
I've never taken the time to figure out before. My original
purpose was to determine what the absolute best opening is vs
full starting pressure (all ling spawners/1strike + cap on all)
regarding the best fighting unit/gen up combo goes. I learned
quite a bit from that actually, like a shock trooper is more
energy effecient than a marine as long as it's attack is hitting
atleast 1 other unit, while its pulse ability is only more
energy efficent than marines if it hits 8 or more t1 units
(still most energy-efficent for the shock trooper(s) to
auto-attack them). Though shock troopers cost quite a bit of gas
so overinvesting in them will slow you down, so it is a fun
balancing game. Just random FYI's in case other didn't know
that.
Anyways, I went on to calculate eco, specifically around the
yard eco up 1 and 2 (this is refering to the 300 gas and 400 gas
upgrades for better mineral income, not the new thing). What I
found was a bit suprising to me, as I have been investing into
the eco ups much sooner than I should be in order to optimize
income. KEEP IN MIND, I AM NOT FIGURING IN THE COST OF MINERALS
FOR SHEEP/COWS/COW FARMS, this is specifically calculating the
best possible mineral income per how much gas you spend. This is
also assuming you have enough fruit farms for all of the animals
(typically people will have 10-13 FF's with a proper expansion).
Btw, if you're not interested in the math/double checking my
work, you can just find the build at the bottom of this post
along with a replay of me carrying it out.
FF = Fruit Farm
SF = Sheep Farm
CF = Cow Farm
etc.. Just to make this dummy proof :P
Lets do the easy one first. No cow, all sheep build:
1 SF costs 40 gas - increases income by 1 mineral per 10 seconds
= 6 minerals/minute
Sheep - increases income by 1 mineral per 18 seconds = 3.3333
minerals/minute (I did it this way to make calculations easier,
as we must remember that even though the sheep is harvesting 2
minerals per 18 seconds, the FF would be generating half of that
without the sheep)
Therefore, for 40 gas, a SF will increase your income by 9.3333
minerals/minute.
Cost of eco up 1: 300 gas
300/40 = 7.5 SF. So, you can get eco up 1, or 7.5 SF for the
same amount of gas. If you invest in 7 SF we get: 7*9.3333 = 65
minerals/minute
Therefore, for the eco up 1 to be just as good or better than
SF, we would need it to benefit us by atleast 65
minerals/minute.
65/3.3333 = 19.5 = 20 SF. So we need at least 20 SF before eco
up 1 is worth it.
Keep in mind, our sheep are worth more now:
1 SF costs 40 gas - increases income by 1 mineral per 10 seconds
= 6 minerals/minute
Sheep - increases income by 2 minerals per 18 seconds = 6.6666
minerals/minute
Therefore, for 40 gas, a SF will increase your income by 12.6666
minerals/minute.
Cost of eco up 2: 400 gas
400/40 = 10 SF. So, you can get eco up 2, or 10 SF for the same
amount of gas. If you invest in 10 sheep we get: 10*12.6666 =
127 minerals/minute
Therefore, for the eco up 2 to be just as good or better than
SF, we would need it to benefit us by atleast 127
minerals/minute.
127/3.3333 = 38. So we need 38 SF before eco 2 is worth it. Keep
in mind, this fills up 12.6666 fruit farms, so you would need
the maximum 13 FF in a standard base for this to work 100%
effeciently.
Now on to the eco build which uses both SF and CF: - This build
assumes that you have 6 SF and only build CF for eco from here
on out.
1 CF costs 60 gas - increases income by 2 mineral per 10 seconds
= 12 minerals/minute
Cow - increases income by 3 minerals per 18 seconds = 10
minerals/minute
Therefore, for 60 gas, a CF will increase your income by 22
minerals/minute. (This also means that a CF + Cow will pay
itself off mineral-wise in 2 minutes, FYI)
Cost of eco up 1: 300 gas
300/60 = 5 CF. So, you can get eco up 1, or 5 CF for the same
amount of gas. If you invest in 5 CF we get: 5*22 = 110
minerals/minute
Therefore, for the eco up 1 to be just as good or better than
SF, we would need it to benefit us by atleast 110
minerals/minute.
110/3.3333 = 33. We have 6 SF so 33 - 6 = 27. Therefore, we need
27 CF before eco 1 is worth it (gas-wise).
And, spoiler alert, eco up 2 is actually already worth it now
with 27 CF due to it benefitting cows by plus 2. You can check
the math for yourself but this post is getting a tad bit long so
I'll leave it out.
The general strategy/build:
Open up with 3 gas, fill out with 10 outer FF's, take inner/4th
gas asap and 2-3 FF's inside base. build 6 SF to use up your gas
while you use minerals to upgrade refineries. Get yard, make up
to 9 CF (tad bit greedy but this whole build is game dependant,
just like every game/build, can cut CF for a quicker Arm if you
need to). You now have a really good eco, so build an armory,
get overcharge/shatter/pen, upgrades, and pump out t1 marines.
Try to start doing damage around the 14 minute mark. Keep adding
cow farms sporadically until 27, then get eco ups 1 and 2. Get
other upgrades as you need them.
Here is a replay of me (bot mid) following this build: (Edit:
correct replay now :p)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pkare5pb46ywHa1XZ0JqTfU0MD9iXw8T/view?usp=sharing
Keep in mind I did not do this perfectly (I was just a little
drunk that night.....), and it was very easy to carry out
because Speed took all of the early game pressure. But it should
give you the general concept by seeing it in action. Key point:
You will have a massive amount of minerals with this build, so
spend your gas wisely.. I made a comment in the game at some
point that I had like 2k minerals but no gas.. Probably should
of got t3 instead of cons 2 in a more serious game but the game
was kind of over so I just yolo'd it.
Also, feel free to check my math and see if I messed up
anywhere. However, I double checked almost all of these
calculations in game so it should be.
"If my math is right, and it always is.." - Tony Stark
#Post#: 1552--------------------------------------------------
Re: Terran Eco Build
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 7, 2021, 10:16 am
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thanks for the eco upgrade calc, that is something I hadn't done
before.
My 2cts to this: cows generate more income compared to sheep
only after about 3mins. So when you are building cow farms you
need to expect the game to last another 3mins before it ends.
Basically that means only if you expect the game to go longer
than 20mins should you ever consider investing into cow farms as
they will delay your ability to push significantly.
or in short: If teammates good then go sheep, if bad go cows.
#Post#: 1553--------------------------------------------------
Re: Terran Eco Build
By: Speed Date: January 7, 2021, 10:31 am
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[quote author=Mett Gaming link=topic=159.msg1552#msg1552
date=1610036218]
or in short: If teammates good then go sheep, if bad go cows.
[/quote]
Yup.
Terran and zerg are extremely timing and power spike heavy,
there is a few timings where I like to eco up (usually after
pressuring with T1 and zerg repsponding with roaches, I know
zerg are delayed so I can eco up and build an army that they
cannot defeat later).
If all terrans know how to play and play aggressive zerg just
dies / you have plenty of time to eco up behind that.
#Post#: 1556--------------------------------------------------
Re: Terran Eco Build
By: Turb007 Date: January 7, 2021, 11:21 am
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Agree with both of you here ^^ Certainly not saying this should
be done every game, as I stated in the post - it's very game
dependent. There are certainly plenty of games where I just go
straight sheep, especially if I know my team mates are good.
With this build though, if my team mate(s) are doing good and
pushing, I usually just stop with the original 6 SF + 9 CF and
go kill them. However, I do like that with cows, there is a very
easy transition into a very powerful mid and even late game in
case your partners are "less than stellar". AKA looking like
they're doing good and pushing but all of a sudden gets
surrounded and killed. Just kind of gives an easy and powerful
plan B so to speak.
#Post#: 1558--------------------------------------------------
Re: Terran Eco Build
By: Speed Date: January 7, 2021, 11:47 am
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^^ Cows are good to solo carry and I usually implement some when
I get my yard anyways so I have an emergency bunker, that's
usually the case after clearing nest / big spine. It's good to
eco when zerg can't eco, so when you're dealing damage and zerg
makes roaches to try and survive^^. Terrans always need to
balance between eco and aggression and if they do it right they
win usually x)
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