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#Post#: 1544--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: ZergTriumph Date: January 6, 2021, 6:33 pm
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[quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=158.msg1541#msg1541
date=1609962831]
[quote author=ZergTriumph link=topic=158.msg1540#msg1540
date=1609962277][...] Most games last more than half an hour.
[...][/quote]
what garbage tier mates you're playing with? game has to be over
20-25 mins or terran missplayed and should lose. arguable ion is
too strong in that regard atm.
[/quote]
You must not play in pubs.
#Post#: 1545--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: Hecari Date: January 6, 2021, 6:54 pm
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On a different note, something rather concerning I've noticed
this patch is that Tanklings are more often stronger against
expanded than turtling Terrans, despite being intended to be the
opposite. Against very aggressive no-wall expanders, tanklings
deal massive damage against fruit farms due to their new AI,
causing great economic damage. Against less aggressive, average
expanders, Tanklings can often unexpectedly break a hole in the
Construction Yard-side wall, especially if the yard is not built
yet or Unified Armor is not researched yet. Not to mention,
complete focus from Zerg on any one Terran with mass Tanklings
will absolutely destroy them with little recourse very early
into the game; one cannot even retreat onto the high ground as
Tanklings simply deal too much damage against the gates.
I am unsure if a spawner unit is the answer to giving Zerg an
early-game response to turtling. Any unit specialized in
breaking in walls can and will also be more effective against an
expanded player, with more wall surface area. It may be more
balanced to see this problem approached from other directions,
perhaps in the form of a building or creep-related buffs. A
turtle Terran has little ability to affect areas outside of
their base in the early game, and this may be a good point to
exploit in implementing strategies to break them early. These
sorts of approaches do not provide any economy, so they may have
to be adjusted in price or perhaps contribute to the economy. As
an (admittedly not very fleshed out) example, if Zerg was able
to build spore crawlers with drones but only on turtle Terrans
for some reason, it would be the kind of solution I am
suggesting. Maybe make them only buildable outside of creep?
Another point is that currently there is still little a
full-turtle Terran can do to threaten the Zerg, so perhaps this
might also change in the future once Mega Tanks are introduced.
#Post#: 1547--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: ZergTriumph Date: January 6, 2021, 9:19 pm
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Based on what I'm seeing, zerg can eliminate a terran early by
massing tanklings against them, and there doesn't appear to be
anything terran can do to stop it. I think the tankling buff
needs to be reversed asap, and preferably, tanklings should just
be removed from the game. Giving noobs too many units early is a
recipe for bad games.
#Post#: 1548--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: blah Date: January 6, 2021, 11:02 pm
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balance is going to be incredibly hard if the game doesn't even
have a game intro. the only thing telling new players how to
play is the loading screen! there needs to be a tutorial for new
players at the start of the game. otherwise it could take
players an entire patch before they are up to speed/learn the
game.
#Post#: 1550--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: Oayoo Date: January 7, 2021, 1:57 am
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This tankling update is a huge disaster.
As i always said giving early tools to Zerg is a huge nonsense
but this Tankling upgrade is the next dumb lvl...
This patch is one of the worst patch i saw in Zerg hex ever lol.
Listen to this guys :
===> T2 Roaches op, mmmh, how should we fix this?
====> let's rework a T0 unit to make it even stronger than
Roaches!!!
======> players don't play Roaches anymore xD, a job well done.
=======>Zergs winning with Tanklings then Infused Roaches.
t2 t3 t4 t5 units crying in silence because no one wanna use
them xD, huge disaster...
Last patch was a ray of hope for Zerg hex but now, everything is
broken again.
Next patch we need some nice button like :
-"eliminate from start stronger ratio player"
-"eliminate second best one"
...
#Post#: 1554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: Mett Gaming Date: January 7, 2021, 10:44 am
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possible Tankling fixes that I've gathered from discussion on my
discord:
[list]
[li]make wallbuster ability an upgrade[/li]
[li]start them off with e.g. 25hp and make hp upgradable[/li]
[li]nerf building dmg to 10/8 to match scv repair speed[/li]
[li]move first armor gain to t2[/li]
[/list]
I do like tanklings being an option to break early terran turtle
but they should need to be microed in order to do dmg. They
should not start out the way they are but require more
commitment from the zerg thus giving terrans the ability to be
able to defend against them. Right now it's just a
no-brain/skill kill with nothing you can do as terran.
Right now the only counter to tanklings is having good teammates
as they at least damage the zerg eco the same way roaches do.
I'm also suggesting renaming them into Noob Busters. A more
fitting description.
#Post#: 1555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: ZergTriumph Date: January 7, 2021, 11:18 am
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Wmaster there is overwhelming consensus among experienced
players that this is the WORST PATCH EVER. Please undo the
tankling changes immediately, and preferably remove them and
beastlings from the game entirely.
#Post#: 1557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: Adam Date: January 7, 2021, 11:38 am
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[quote author=ZergTriumph link=topic=158.msg1555#msg1555
date=1610039927]
Wmaster there is overwhelming consensus among experienced
players that this is the WORST PATCH EVER. Please undo the
tankling changes immediately, and preferably remove them and
beastlings from the game entirely.
[/quote]
wowowowo chill there a little...
as for my opinion on the balance aspekt of the patch after some
more playing:
yard change - very welcomed, very nice, dont seems op, dont
seems useless makes making eco when ur 2 allies are bad much
more enjoyable
reaper change - also nice, it doesnt do very much but it opens
some fun builds and overall I am happy with it as well
beastling change - nothing changed, they were not used, they are
still not used
tanklings change - while I rly rly RLY wanted to say they are
fine as if there are at least 2 decent terrans on side zerg just
falls into eco hole from which he will never recover.... after
some games with them I am forced to admit this is after all too
much of a IF and they are indeed too strong, still would prefer
some of mett proposed nerfs over triumph striaght up removal
idea
#Post#: 1564--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: GrumpyKitten Date: January 7, 2021, 1:14 pm
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[quote author=Hecari link=topic=158.msg1543#msg1543
date=1609978394]
The excel sheet is not simulating a situation where a Terran
army is facing exactly one spawner. It is estimating on average
how an additional spawner of each type will affect various
aspects of Terran economy. This reflects in-game situations.
Because of this, it is perfectly acceptable to factor in
shattering laser into damage calculations; on average, each unit
will be hit by twice as many shattering laser hits than direct
laser hits, so estimating it as such is absolutely accurate.
Please do not spread misinformation.
[/quote]
Well if you present it like that... still no but ok. I guess
some ppl just cant handle criticism.
If you think adding 5 t1 marines against every ultra spawner,
have fun at it.
On the patch: I still did not have time to play it but 2 things
came into my mind:
- Do you have the platform and opportunity to have some ppl
test the patches before going live? I mean i know it's a small
community and it's not like a big deal to have 1 or 2 weeks of
bad patch. Just asking if this ever came up as a possibility
- Some guy made a thread back in mid december that did not get
any attention. It's about just reverting roach changes and swap
out with primals.
You get it later, so terrans still have time to beat big spines
and cripple the zerg / end the game. And zerg would have a
decent unit at Armor 3.
I'm just gonna link it just here to credit him:
HTML https://zerghex.createaforum.com/balance-discussion/roach-spawners-the-poop-ultra-zerg-spawners-in-general/
Because it's clear that primals are pretty bad compared for the
invested gold. If Roach becomes Armor 3, back with the old stats
i really dont think it would be even a game ending unit like it
was.
Old patch the problem was that you can get roach easily around
min 15, when terran has NO chance getting vets to stop them. If
roach becomes armor 3, then it is delayed enough to have vets.
Still since the old patch terran shatter was buffed for example,
so roach would not even be the same level strong. But the main
problem with roach was the early HUGE power spike.
Also if we do this, maybe make infused armor 4. Because if zerg
gets both roach + infused at the same time, i think that could
be a game ending power spike too like it was.
Maybe at the weekend i'll have time to play a few games, i am
really interested in the new tankling. Zerg is currently
unplayable.
Again: i did not see the patch, only seen the crying here.
Maybe a fix to all of this is to make tankling an Armor 1 unit.
That delays it with like 6-8 minutes at LEAST. Zerg dont need
buff for the first 8 minutes of the game. The problem is that
after shatter, the zerg has nothing against the terrans until
infused roach. And that is even if you full max out zerg eco
around 17 min i think. But that is extra greedy shit and if
terrans can just walk through on you, AND if you share eco.
20-22 minutes is more realistic.
I really hope you read this, and consider tankling to be Armor 1
unit, and the roach - primal change. I think it would fix a lot
of issues in the game, credit to Smith for the idea, not sure
why it did not stick
#Post#: 1581--------------------------------------------------
Re: Patch Notes 4.5
By: GrumpyKitten Date: January 9, 2021, 7:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=158.msg1550#msg1550
date=1610006247]
This tankling update is a huge disaster.
As i always said giving early tools to Zerg is a huge nonsense
but this Tankling upgrade is the next dumb lvl...
This patch is one of the worst patch i saw in Zerg hex ever lol.
Listen to this guys :
===> T2 Roaches op, mmmh, how should we fix this?
====> let's rework a T0 unit to make it even stronger than
Roaches!!!
======> players don't play Roaches anymore xD, a job well done.
=======>Zergs winning with Tanklings then Infused Roaches.
t2 t3 t4 t5 units crying in silence because no one wanna use
them xD, huge disaster...
Last patch was a ray of hope for Zerg hex but now, everything is
broken again.
Next patch we need some nice button like :
-"eliminate from start stronger ratio player"
-"eliminate second best one"
...
[/quote]
After like 3-4 games i really fail to understand why is this
uproar against tanklings...
The unit was considered trash, and if a zerg built them, you
knew it's an autowin.
I think now the unit has purpose, and can have impact. Finally
not completely useless.
Now i agree that we can debate if it may be too strong, because
it is ridiculous how hard to hold walls against them.
But the unit still eats a lot of supply, and has literally 0 dmg
on units.
Situationally can break a terran and stuff, and it can result in
early killing of one terran.
It's clear that hexnab just want to have the game in a state
where terran can easily win, so they can 2 man party win games,
and ejaculate furiously onto each other while shitposting.
But this tankling buff is in no way game breaking. Altho i stand
by my statement: zerg needs buffs for the 8-16 minutes of the
game.
Not sure how that's achieveable, Even if tankling has Armor 1,
it melts to shattering.
If let's say armor 1 is needed for tanklings, that can be
achieved around 8-10 minute by zerg. By that time shattering is
already done.
Maybe the unit would need to have 2 armor, but that may be too
much. -> it's like a roach.
The only option i see currently worth a chance is bringing back
to old roach, and switching it around with primals.
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