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#Post#: 1360--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Oayoo Date: December 17, 2020, 3:45 pm
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I want to know too :)
#Post#: 1370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Zergie Date: December 18, 2020, 8:30 am
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Regarding the changes, I think buffing rarely used
units/playstyles and nerfing units that are always used is a
usually a good idea. It changes things up and its like it is a
new game.
I really like the new zerg base as it gives an almost defeated
zerg the ability to turtle and to not lose highground buildings
to scans. It makes for an interesting comeback. Maybe give zerg
something like a void thrasher when zerg has no low ground
structures as suggested in another part of the forum as the
counterpart to ions.
For hydras, maybe we can make the +3 take a cumulative time
slightly more compared to previously at maybe around 300 sec.
For big spines, maybe transfuse can be set to autocast on
selected infestors when they are within a certain range of a big
spine so that zerg can micro their big spines to hit the center
of the marine ball. Spines could also have a temporary weakened
state when its hp drops to 0 which can be revived by an infestor
transfuse within around 2~5 sec. This also helps against
multiple terrans pushing simultaneously. As demonstrated
excellently by Speed, with good micro, marines don't care about
the spine damage/splash. Maybe spines can have a state to attack
the furthest unit instead of the nearest (Looking forward to
Speed coming up with a new micro technique for that :)
For the yard, maybe allow high ground gas to produce gas around
after ~20 minutes as that is the usual time that terrans start
getting pushed up ramp even if they had already pushed out early
game. For low ground, if it actually is bad for the player base,
maybe make it produce gas only after ~10 minutes as an
additional source of gas.
For the blocked gases, I think its only the 3 outside the base
that cannot be destroyed, so you still can get the other 2
gases. Maybe remove vision for the zerg from those gases so that
its easier to sneak in the other 2 gases.
Regarding my playstyle, I have already gotten used to pushing
out all the time. Early game for me now is all about how greedy
you can go with fruit farms/killing back rocks/making fewer
marines/more gen upgrades and upgrading gas. Then, get buggo and
spire at 11 minutes and then make tech lab to get big spines
(not that confident in my micro yet). If too many infestors are
ready, upgrade to veterans. Then start killing the zerg economy
and then finish the zerg. That is pretty much how I have been
playing every single game in this patch. If I have a terran who
actively pushes on my side, we usually win.
As zerg, I will first f2 mid, then instantly give control to my
ally and money for his first supply upgrade so that we can
establish a shared economy. Get armor 1 at around 11 minutes as
well as infestors. Then use infestors to feed off the terran. I
will then make infused and go from there. I know I will most
likely lose in the event that at least 2 terrans on a side know
how to push big spines, so I always play with the expectation
that I am going to lose.
If I get new team mates, I will give them pointers (the advance
ping is really helpful) and treat it as sharpening my skills as
I learn more from my losses and if I do win, I will just be
happy and play another game until I lose. There is always
something new to learn in every new random situation (including
the randomness of team mates) which makes this game addicting
for me.
I'm excited for this new patch. Thank you WMaster for taking our
feedbacks and continuing to improve zerg hex.
#Post#: 1372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: ZergTriumph Date: December 18, 2020, 9:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Zergie link=topic=138.msg1370#msg1370
date=1608301827]
Regarding the changes, I think buffing rarely used
units/playstyles and nerfing units that are always used is a
usually a good idea. It changes things up and its like it is a
new game.
[/quote]
Then tanklings and beastlings should not be buffed, since every
nub spams them.
WMaster should actually be nerfing roach and buffing primals and
ultras.
#Post#: 1375--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Speed Date: December 18, 2020, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Zergie link=topic=138.msg1370#msg1370
date=1608301827]
For the blocked gases, I think its only the 3 outside the base
that cannot be destroyed, so you still can get the other 2
gases. Maybe remove vision for the zerg from those gases so that
its easier to sneak in the other 2 gases.
[/quote]
... Yes, those 3 gasses are the ones we are referring to when
talking about invulnerable gasses, as they are the only
invulnerable gasses. We are fully aware that there are gasses
that are blocked from begin, which can be unlocked, so we talk
specifically about the ones that are invulnerable sealed when a
terran dies...
For additional questions email CaptainObvious@gmail.fml
Can't stop making cheeky comments when there is posts like this.
Just be glad I will ignore the other parts of the post.
#Post#: 1378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: WMaster Date: December 18, 2020, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are quite a few who dislike the general direction this
patch will take. However, implementing a more improved version
of what was taken away from players during last patch was the
main priority. This includes some form of investment for the
later stages and a different attack option while trying to avoid
the main pitfalls of previous implementations. I get the
impression that the sheer thought of allowing such playstyles is
disliked, while I think it shouldn’t have much impact on how one
gets to play their current playstyle, just allowing another. The
previous changes did however have much impact to some peoples
playstyles and I can understand if they disliked that. If
someone likes to know what I think about how the game should be
played, then I would say: is a way you like to, preferably
choosing from many different options, which is then what should
be provided. But some do not share this vision, which is
alright, but you may expect to be disappointed from time to time
if that’s the case. I would imagine if your playstyle were to be
stripped, you might dislike that too. It’s why I try to keep
them intact. Of course balancing those options is key, and there
will be plenty of time for that as long as I remain active. It’s
just that for this change it was not the highest priority.
On to things I might change from the proposal after reading
reactions.
[1] Reaper +1 damage from Penetrating Laser seemed not so good,
deduced by Turb007, as it would become even harder to keep
players from addition gasses. I would like to know how others
think of this before dropping it. I feel like it may still be
alright, as reapers are primarily defensive, while there is need
for Terran to play an offensive role. Of course additional
gasses may help with offense too.
[2] Several disliked the idea for the Defender +4% damage
reduction. Informed was that it’s still quite defendable without
it. It wasn’t a major adjustment, but I’ll drop it from the
changes for now.
[3] Firebats 500 health seemed too much, proposing to make this
400. Unupgraded then remains at 200.
[4] I hadn’t much thought about Infestors becoming a problem
with the decrease in cost of Armor 1. There has been suggested
to reduce their off-creep movement speed to prevent early harass
becoming a major threat. Also to not drop the cost to as much as
400. I'm thinking to reduce Armor 1 cost to 500 instead, and to
reduce Infestors’ movement speed off-creep from 2.5 to 1.9.
Thanks all for the feedback. I'm glad some did in fact like the
proposed changes.
#Post#: 1379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Adam Date: December 18, 2020, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=WMaster link=topic=138.msg1378#msg1378
date=1608311619]
There are quite a few who dislike the general direction this
patch will take. However, implementing a more improved version
of what was taken away from players during last patch was the
main priority. This includes some form of investment for the
later stages and a different attack option while trying to avoid
the main pitfalls of previous implementations. I get the
impression that the sheer thought of allowing such playstyles is
disliked, while I think it shouldn’t have much impact on how one
gets to play their current playstyle, just allowing another. The
previous changes did however have much impact to some peoples
playstyles and I can understand if they disliked that. If
someone likes to know what I think about how the game should be
played, then I would say: is a way you like to, preferably
choosing from many different options, which is then what should
be provided. But some do not share this vision, which is
alright, but you may expect to be disappointed from time to time
if that’s the case. I would imagine if your playstyle were to be
stripped, you might dislike that too. It’s why I try to keep
them intact. Of course balancing those options is key, and there
will be plenty of time for that as long as I remain active. It’s
just that for this change it was not the highest priority.
On to things I might change from the proposal after reading
reactions.
[1] Reaper +1 damage from Penetrating Laser seemed not so good,
deduced by Turb007, as it would become even harder to keep
players from addition gasses. I would like to know how others
think of this before dropping it. I feel like it may still be
alright, as reapers are primarily defensive, while there is need
for Terran to play an offensive role. Of course additional
gasses may help with offense too.
[2] Several disliked the idea for the Defender +4% damage
reduction. Informed was that it’s still quite defendable without
it. It wasn’t a major adjustment, but I’ll drop it from the
changes for now.
[3] Firebats 500 health seemed too much, proposing to make this
400. Unupgraded then remains at 200.
[4] I hadn’t much thought about Infestors becoming a problem
with the decrease in cost of Armor 1. There has been suggested
to reduce their off-creep movement speed to prevent early harass
becoming a major threat. Also to not drop the cost to as much as
400. I'm thinking to reduce Armor 1 cost to 500 instead, and to
reduce Infestors’ movement speed off-creep from 2.5 to 1.9.
Thanks all for the feedback. I'm glad some did in fact like the
proposed changes.
[/quote]
I dont like those changes...
I love them :P
but on more serious note
1 I dont think it will be a problem, side gases that are not
defended by marines and only reapers are usualy denied by striks
anyway so this +1 will do nothing in this case
2 not sure, I honsetly feel like some +reducing is needed but I
will not be sad if its not there TOO much
3 yes 500 is way too much
4 meeeeh when it is somehow valid point that festor rush may
become somehow annyoing I rly dont like idea of reducing their
speed... its already hard enough to move them back thru stream
of units blocking them when u try to feed as it is... maybe just
make some time limit that they may be only build 5+ min into the
game, this will stop any cheesy rush while not destroing any
festor unit timings as in normal game u usualy dont have festors
that fast anyway
#Post#: 1382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: ZergTriumph Date: December 18, 2020, 1:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=WMaster link=topic=138.msg1378#msg1378
date=1608311619]
There are quite a few who dislike the general direction this
patch will take. However, implementing a more improved version
of what was taken away from players during last patch was the
main priority. This includes some form of investment for the
later stages and a different attack option while trying to avoid
the main pitfalls of previous implementations. I get the
impression that the sheer thought of allowing such playstyles is
disliked, while I think it shouldn’t have much impact on how one
gets to play their current playstyle, just allowing another. The
previous changes did however have much impact to some peoples
playstyles and I can understand if they disliked that. If
someone likes to know what I think about how the game should be
played, then I would say: is a way you like to, preferably
choosing from many different options, which is then what should
be provided. But some do not share this vision, which is
alright, but you may expect to be disappointed from time to time
if that’s the case. I would imagine if your playstyle were to be
stripped, you might dislike that too. It’s why I try to keep
them intact. Of course balancing those options is key, and there
will be plenty of time for that as long as I remain active. It’s
just that for this change it was not the highest priority.
On to things I might change from the proposal after reading
reactions.
[1] Reaper +1 damage from Penetrating Laser seemed not so good,
deduced by Turb007, as it would become even harder to keep
players from addition gasses. I would like to know how others
think of this before dropping it. I feel like it may still be
alright, as reapers are primarily defensive, while there is need
for Terran to play an offensive role. Of course additional
gasses may help with offense too.
[2] Several disliked the idea for the Defender +4% damage
reduction. Informed was that it’s still quite defendable without
it. It wasn’t a major adjustment, but I’ll drop it from the
changes for now.
[3] Firebats 500 health seemed too much, proposing to make this
400. Unupgraded then remains at 200.
[4] I hadn’t much thought about Infestors becoming a problem
with the decrease in cost of Armor 1. There has been suggested
to reduce their off-creep movement speed to prevent early harass
becoming a major threat. Also to not drop the cost to as much as
400. I'm thinking to reduce Armor 1 cost to 500 instead, and to
reduce Infestors’ movement speed off-creep from 2.5 to 1.9.
Thanks all for the feedback. I'm glad some did in fact like the
proposed changes.
[/quote]
So you are just going to ignore the fact that every game is mass
roach vs mass vets, and instead focus on allowing noobs to spam
tanklings and beastlings?
#Post#: 1383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Oayoo Date: December 18, 2020, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's fine ZergTriumph, if you look at the patch, you can already
tell how games will be.
Some players will try to abuse the new yard and will loose their
time doing eco for the tank.
If the tank is op, they will free win. If the tank is meh, they
will die.
The others will just play like the current patch and still be
able to win most games by themselves^^
The defenders are not buff so most likely good terrans will fast
understand that opening yard outside is too dangerous.
In the end, the meta will only change depending on the Tank.
We have little data about the Tank so we can't say right now.
#Post#: 1384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: RickSanchez Date: December 18, 2020, 2:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=138.msg1383#msg1383
date=1608321648]
It's fine ZergTriumph, if you look at the patch, you can already
tell how games will be.
Some players will try to abuse the new yard and will loose their
time doing eco for the tank.
If the tank is op, they will free win. If the tank is meh, they
will die.
The others will just play like the current patch and still be
able to win most games by themselves^^
The defenders are not buff so most likely good terrans will fast
understand that opening yard outside is too dangerous.
In the end, the meta will only change depending on the Tank.
We have little data about the Tank so we can't say right now.
[/quote]
nono if you are free you can do nice eco game now for 25 minutes
and watch your mates die. i love the diversity of trolling. and
if i get the early beating since capacity didnt touch i can
still leave early since panelty didnt touch at all. why would
you care about the main issues if you can just roll back to the
good old turtlemeta 3.x times
i am tired argueing with creatures like adam who clearly wants
just easy abuse solowin. that's why he defended chemplant till
the last bullet. whatever.. again tired. great patch new meta
leave or cow eco :D
#Post#: 1385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changes Take 2
By: Adam Date: December 18, 2020, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RickSanchez link=topic=138.msg1384#msg1384
date=1608321885]
[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=138.msg1383#msg1383
date=1608321648]
It's fine ZergTriumph, if you look at the patch, you can already
tell how games will be.
Some players will try to abuse the new yard and will loose their
time doing eco for the tank.
If the tank is op, they will free win. If the tank is meh, they
will die.
The others will just play like the current patch and still be
able to win most games by themselves^^
The defenders are not buff so most likely good terrans will fast
understand that opening yard outside is too dangerous.
In the end, the meta will only change depending on the Tank.
We have little data about the Tank so we can't say right now.
[/quote]
nono if you are free you can do nice eco game now for 25 minutes
and watch your mates die. i love the diversity of trolling. and
if i get the early beating since capacity didnt touch i can
still leave early since panelty didnt touch at all. why would
you care about the main issues if you can just roll back to the
good old turtlemeta 3.x times
i am tired argueing with creatures like adam who clearly wants
just easy abuse solowin. that's why he defended chemplant till
the last bullet. whatever.. again tired. great patch new meta
leave or cow eco :D
[/quote]
and this is Wmaster why I am saying u should change very early
penalty...
thank u ink, could not ask for better example
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