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#Post#: 1462--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
By: deorai037 Date: December 27, 2020, 8:18 am
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Roach often represents a hard skill gate, which is probably a
big part of why they're so powerful. A good terran can handle a
roach f2 or two, a team of good terrans can handle roach f2s (by
supporting each other with tech lab powers), but a bad terran is
going to get crushed into dust by a few roaches. Enough
investment into roaches, and good terrans will hide behind walls
'til vets and mow down the Z, who now has bad eco.
Likewise, a good terran can push with t1s into low numbers of
roaches, but a mediocre terran will be scared off instantly at
the sight of them, and a bad terran won't be pushing at all.
Naturally, this is going to end up being a frustrating situation
for good terran if Z is wiping out their bad teammates (leaving
them without teammates) but I find plenty of people are able to
hold roaches just fine, even if they're not able to push out for
a short time.
Returning to the topic at hand, I fully agree with Speed's
earlier proposed remedy for adjusting the leave penalty:
"Make Zerg supply cost scale
Explanation: The problem is Zerg’s supply goes down while the
supply cost does not with the Terran very early leaver bonus.
This is way too strong for Terran, as this effectively reduces
their economy by >1/3 for the entire game. and the leaves supply
cost the same. It should only slow down the Zerg economy and
reduce pressure for a short time.. It is very possible for a
good enough Terran to never lose in this kind of situation."
The thing about taking away supply (and not subsequently
reducing the cost of the first supply) is that that means that
every single supply upgrade now costs, functionally, an
additional 125 minerals. I.e., your "first" supply after having
one leaver costs 600, except that only gets you back to normal
supply, so your real "first" supply actually costs 725 minerals
now. Over the course of the game, this penalty really adds up.
#Post#: 1464--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
By: Adam Date: December 27, 2020, 10:05 am
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[quote author=deorai037 link=topic=136.msg1462#msg1462
date=1609078684]
Roach often represents a hard skill gate, which is probably a
big part of why they're so powerful. A good terran can handle a
roach f2 or two, a team of good terrans can handle roach f2s (by
supporting each other with tech lab powers), but a bad terran is
going to get crushed into dust by a few roaches. Enough
investment into roaches, and good terrans will hide behind walls
'til vets and mow down the Z, who now has bad eco.
Likewise, a good terran can push with t1s into low numbers of
roaches, but a mediocre terran will be scared off instantly at
the sight of them, and a bad terran won't be pushing at all.
Naturally, this is going to end up being a frustrating situation
for good terran if Z is wiping out their bad teammates (leaving
them without teammates) but I find plenty of people are able to
hold roaches just fine, even if they're not able to push out for
a short time.
Returning to the topic at hand, I fully agree with Speed's
earlier proposed remedy for adjusting the leave penalty:
"Make Zerg supply cost scale
Explanation: The problem is Zerg’s supply goes down while the
supply cost does not with the Terran very early leaver bonus.
This is way too strong for Terran, as this effectively reduces
their economy by >1/3 for the entire game. and the leaves supply
cost the same. It should only slow down the Zerg economy and
reduce pressure for a short time.. It is very possible for a
good enough Terran to never lose in this kind of situation."
The thing about taking away supply (and not subsequently
reducing the cost of the first supply) is that that means that
every single supply upgrade now costs, functionally, an
additional 125 minerals. I.e., your "first" supply after having
one leaver costs 600, except that only gets you back to normal
supply, so your real "first" supply actually costs 725 minerals
now. Over the course of the game, this penalty really adds up.
[/quote]
as for roach- useless teammate is a useless teammate... if
someone manage to die to roaches then he probably wont kill big
spine anyway no matter what, I presonaly much prefer when zerg
waste eco on roaches to kill my bad teammates than when they
ignore them and go full eco into something that is actualy scary
as for penalty- full agreement, this supply cost rly kills zerg
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