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#Post#: 1427--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Adam
Date: December 21, 2020, 7:54 am
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--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> You guys are always fighting against each other and miss the
points every single time^^
>
> I will try to refocus the debate.
>
> We shouldn't ask if it is right or wrong to leave early game
but WHY ARE PLAYERS LEAVING EARLY GAME AND HOW TO FIX THAT.
>
> If players leave early game pre 2.15, there are reasons: What
are these ?
> -The Zerg player is able to put all his map pressure on one
player from start (F2). Most likely on mid.
> -The Terrans are all new players/noobs making the only good
player to leave (it happens for Zergs too).
> -Disconnected Terran (rare)
> -The Zerg put literally all his supply into spawners from
start on one player.
>
> We can't fix the disconnected Terrans, the F2 or the noobs.
The only things we can fix are these early all-in from Zergs and
the mid area.
> As i said in previous thread, capacity spawners must be
reworked to not be efficient early game. For the mid area, this
is a ground problem wmaster should be able to fix.
>
> To conclude: The penality is really important but as most
players said, is too high for Zergs. Best fix is to scale the
supply cost/leavers.
>
--- End Quote ---
"i only play matches where i think winchance is 90%+"
"why do you think there is the 2:15 window?
you need that time to estimate if your mates are worth your time
if not you can leave without lose"
"f2 me in mid, deal with the quit"
here some examples why players quit, is it cap problem? no, its
people who are terrible at holding focus that cant face single
f2 without losing half of their starting units yet want to keep
their 90%+ wr got by leaving 4/5 of their matches that want to
force removal of zerg tool that kills them
is being f2 in mid for 2 min annoying? yes but those are 2 min
of complete freedom on 2 other players, if they have 2 working
braincells they will never be pushed off lowground again
#Post#: 1429--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Mett Gaming
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ZergTriumph link ---
>
> I'm confused. I thought the hexnabs believed that upgrading
spawner capacity early does more harm to the zerg's economy than
to the terran, but now you're saying that it's actually better
for Zerg to up its spawners early?
>
--- End Quote ---
It is quite effective at pushing one player back. There is
nothing you can really do when the zerg builds the first full
supply on you and upgrades all the spawners. At that point you
are forced back into your base.
The reason that is bad for the zerg is that the remaining two
terrans pretty much have all the freedom in the world to eco up.
T1 spawners fall off horribly once shattering comes into play.
If however the two other terrans don't pose a threat to the zerg
the one on the recieving end of the aggro is basically out of
the game. So it is a legitimate "low skill" tactic if there is
only one good player on a side. And that is what the hexnabs are
against because with low skill you can destroy a terran no
matter how good he is.
#Post#: 1431--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
you misunderstood my message Zergtriumph, we still think that
Zergs shouldn't be able to all in early.
This is bad for Zergs and for Terrans. The game is pretty much
over at start depending of some facts (players lvl, position,
who is focused first, Zergs focus choices.)
You will most likely win your game against an all-in Zerg but,
do you really want to play it ? No.
This is also why most people prefer bunker. Playing against an
all-in Zerg is just painfull. You will most of the game play
behind and under high pressure and when you will at least be
able to push and have fun, the zerg will leave.
#Post#: 1432--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Speed
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Capacity is bad for zerg, but it's good to all-in 1 terran and
then kinda pressure the terran next to him assuming the
initially pressured terran is getting pushed back / delayed a
lot. This kind of play is exceptionally harmful if 1 good terran
is stuck with 2 noobs / bad terrans on a side.
Is it a reason to leave? To me it is^^.
In general, even with a good team, it's just boring to play
against, you just have so much pain early on and then you win
without effort later. All-in capacity zerg is basically 5min
till game is decided lol.
It's not even about stats / removing 2 spires sometimes, just
about not wasting time. Consider capacity like cannon rushing on
ladder, either you kill your opponent, or he defends it and
moves across map and kills you, that's usually how cannon rushes
go, occassionally it will do just enough damage that you can
transition, but it's rare. And very few people like to play vs.
cannon rushing, if it happens 1/100 games, yeah, then you can
probably laugh it off, but if it happens the majority of games
you will just tilt when you see you get cannon rushed,
regardless of your chances to win. x)
#Post#: 1433--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Mett Gaming
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here is a perfect example of the all in strat. Now please don't
hate on the guy, I actually quite like him. (and he totally did
not consent on me posting his vid all over the internet :D ) The
dunning-kruger is still strong in this one but he is already
improving. If he keeps up he'll soon be a force to be reckoned
with. But Adam and I had a lot of laughs at his commentary,
hopefully you will too :)
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYLAnE11jBs
rip spaceballs btw :D
#Post#: 1434--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Oayoo
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Nice :) It is strange because i didn't see primals, ultra or
even bruts in this video.
i wonder how Zergs were able to reboot pretty much every terrans
with only armor 2 tech. Is it possible that Roaches are
overpowered even after all these nerfs ?
...
...
...
...
No way! It can't be lol.
#Post#: 1435--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Adam
Date: December 21, 2020, 8:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> Nice :) It is strange because i didn't see primals, ultra or
even bruts in this video.
>
> i wonder how Zergs were able to reboot pretty much every
terrans with only armor 2 tech. Is it possible that Roaches are
overpowered even after all these nerfs ?
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> No way! It can't be lol.
>
--- End Quote ---
yes it totaly dont have anything to do how 1 ignored terran cant
even be called bad but striaght up as good as afk, it has
nothing to do how space failed his micro so horribly on first f2
or how he made 1012423523452345 rins only to run out of energy
and be forced back again or how prottzz despite trying still
kept focus quite shortly, or how top was rushing infused so he
got most of the upgrades
noooooooooooooooooooooooo not single thing of those matters, its
roach.. totaly
#Post#: 1436--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Speed
Date: December 21, 2020, 9:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Oayoo link ---
>
> Nice :) It is strange because i didn't see primals, ultra or
even bruts in this video.
>
> i wonder how Zergs were able to reboot pretty much every
terrans with only armor 2 tech. Is it possible that Roaches are
overpowered even after all these nerfs ?
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> No way! It can't be lol.
>
--- End Quote ---
Roach is fair and balanced, just like Mengsk in direct strike.
#Post#: 1437--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: ZergTriumph
Date: December 21, 2020, 10:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mett Gaming link ---
>
> [quote author=ZergTriumph link=topic=136.msg1426#msg1426
date=1608558596]
> I'm confused. I thought the hexnabs believed that upgrading
spawner capacity early does more harm to the zerg's economy than
to the terran, but now you're saying that it's actually better
for Zerg to up its spawners early?
>
--- End Quote ---
It is quite effective at pushing one player back. There is
nothing you can really do when the zerg builds the first full
supply on you and upgrades all the spawners. At that point you
are forced back into your base.
The reason that is bad for the zerg is that the remaining two
terrans pretty much have all the freedom in the world to eco up.
T1 spawners fall off horribly once shattering comes into play.
If however the two other terrans don't pose a threat to the zerg
the one on the recieving end of the aggro is basically out of
the game. So it is a legitimate "low skill" tactic if there is
only one good player on a side. And that is what the hexnabs are
against because with low skill you can destroy a terran no
matter how good he is.
[/quote]
It seems like the complaint about upping spawner capacity only
applies if the non-focused players are noobs. If zerg ups
capacity against 3 good terrans, zerg will get rekt. I know
it's frustrating to play with noobs, but in a balanced game,
noobs should lose. If your teammates are noobs, just deal with
it and don't worry about the loss.
#Post#: 1439--------------------------------------------------
Re: leave before 2:15
DIR By: Speed
Date: December 21, 2020, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There's a difference between losing a game and being cheesed out
of the game. I'm not a fan of either, but I can be ok with
losing sometimes, cheesing is never ok.
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