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#Post#: 1275--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: ZergTriumph Date: December 11, 2020, 11:22 am
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Maybe bring back the fungal growth spell from Wings of Liberty
or Heart of the Swarm. Its a good AOE spell and if we use the
HotS version, it requires some micro to cast accurately and
doesn't do enough damage on its own to make it game winning.
It would require terrans to scan and target infestors with
stasis canon before attacking big spines.
#Post#: 1276--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Speed Date: December 11, 2020, 12:28 pm
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ah yes, rooting part of the terran army and dealing 35 dmg seems
good. We really should have that in zerg hex so you can chain
fungal balls of marines down :)
Why don't we also give psi storm and emp to zerg so there is
some more abilities for them to use. Idk, just spittballing
ideas.
#Post#: 1279--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: ZergTriumph Date: December 11, 2020, 2:42 pm
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You are so fucking toxic
#Post#: 1280--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Speed Date: December 11, 2020, 2:43 pm
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Why is spittballing ideas toxic? You do it all the time. At
least be so fair to call both of us toxic.
#Post#: 1282--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Turb007 Date: December 11, 2020, 4:07 pm
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[quote author=deorai037 link=topic=133.msg1260#msg1260
date=1607675601]
Hey Turb007, with regards to your statement about "slightly
above average" players I'm going to have to disagree, there are
substantially large differences between a player hovering at
"slightly above average" and a high skill player. I'm actually
going to make a separate post about this since I think the data
might be of interest to other people on the forum, but I will
say that when I play Zerg, I don't find it difficult to crush 3
slightly above average (60% winrate) players on my half, because
that usually just means they know the basics of how to play the
game. On the other hand, two high skill players are highly
likely to steamroll me if they're both on my half of the map.
[/quote]
I think your idea of "slightly above average" is very different
than mine. Everyone's idea of "average" is different. You seem
to base it off of win rate which personally I don't really
like.. They can be altered using game files and if you play in
groups of "good" people, it's not really a great reflection of
your personal skill but the skill of the group you queue up
with. This is why I stated "3 slightly above average terrans =
2.(some decimal) flawless terrans" so everyone had an idea of
what I was talking about. But I agree that most players with
around a 60% winrate are full push overs - can do almost
anything to them and they turtle/die.
[quote author=Najdorf link=topic=133.msg1266#msg1266
date=1607689866]
Ideally flipping back and forth as they each jump to higher tech
units.
[/quote]
Yes please and thank you 8)
#Post#: 1286--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Oayoo Date: December 11, 2020, 11:55 pm
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I'm really happy that everyone understand how strong Terran is
:) Chem and Firebats were just an anomaly we should fast forget.
This patch is really great, most of the players are now pushing
and playing!! light bunker is still possible with a nice set-up
and i saw some nice ion games.
Now, we can all focus on the real problem this game had, (even
before chem/firebat/roaches), which is that Zergs are a little
too weak.
Obviously we should not propose early offensive new stuff.
I will also try to propose some ideas :)
-Replace tanklings with a defensive spellcaster unit. The spell
of this unit could be to become a 2X2 wall when used. This way
you could do lot of fun stuff like blocking the doors of the
Terrans, or build a simcity to protect your big spine. The unit
could have an aura that give regen-hp/sec to close buildings.
That unit would have no damage but lot of hp to drain marines
energy and be a nice wall. You also could put the wall/unit on a
spot to deny the Terran from building on it.
-Give 3 hydras from start to Zerg. I would like to try that. It
can be dangerous because some guys will use them and try to
creep rush a player from start which is disgusting. I'm not sure
about this one to be honest^^
-Rework the infestors units and put them in an advanced building
tab. No more energy cost and drone are the builders.
-Remove the energy system from Infestors and make the transfuse
cost minerals.
-Remove the Beastlings from the game and replace them with a new
spellcaster defensive unit. I think someone proposed lurkers. I
would like to see that but obviously this unit shouldn't be able
to be usefull out of creep. and should only be a defensive
possibility.
Ok i will stop here, will try to think about other stuff later.
#Post#: 1287--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Adam Date: December 12, 2020, 4:58 am
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[quote author=Oayoo link=topic=133.msg1286#msg1286
date=1607752554]
I'm really happy that everyone understand how strong Terran is
:) Chem and Firebats were just an anomaly we should fast forget.
This patch is really great, most of the players are now pushing
and playing!! light bunker is still possible with a nice set-up
and i saw some nice ion games.
Now, we can all focus on the real problem this game had, (even
before chem/firebat/roaches), which is that Zergs are a little
too weak.
Obviously we should not propose early offensive new stuff.
I will also try to propose some ideas :)
-Replace tanklings with a defensive spellcaster unit. The spell
of this unit could be to become a 2X2 wall when used. This way
you could do lot of fun stuff like blocking the doors of the
Terrans, or build a simcity to protect your big spine. The unit
could have an aura that give regen-hp/sec to close buildings.
That unit would have no damage but lot of hp to drain marines
energy and be a nice wall. You also could put the wall/unit on a
spot to deny the Terran from building on it.
-Give 3 hydras from start to Zerg. I would like to try that. It
can be dangerous because some guys will use them and try to
creep rush a player from start which is disgusting. I'm not sure
about this one to be honest^^
-Rework the infestors units and put them in an advanced building
tab. No more energy cost and drone are the builders.
-Remove the energy system from Infestors and make the transfuse
cost minerals.
-Remove the Beastlings from the game and replace them with a new
spellcaster defensive unit. I think someone proposed lurkers. I
would like to see that but obviously this unit shouldn't be able
to be usefull out of creep. and should only be a defensive
possibility.
Ok i will stop here, will try to think about other stuff later.
[/quote]
10 people that type on this forum is far from everyone, in game
still literaly in every match u see at least 1 guy who complain
how weak terran is
but yea I agree terran is strong now.... in a lobby with at
least 2 pushing per side, and by pushing I dont mean taking
outer nest bc nobody cares for them but taking big spines where
most of eco of any competent zerg is
situation that no matter how much u will keep saying about
"change in players perspective" happens VERY rarely
being f2 for 2 min on the start of the game only for my 2
teammates to establish and never go near big spine is much
common experience for me
just now had another of such amazing games, 1,5 min into the
game - 3 terrans up their ramp
does zerg need some love? yes, but can it be only buff for his
defense without giving 2 poor terran stuck with 4 amebas some
way to do anything? I dont think so
#Post#: 1288--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Speed Date: December 12, 2020, 7:34 am
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The game can't be balanced around retards^^.
I'm playing PvZ2 these days, a game where retards serve the
purpose of feeding zealot into midgame (15-20min) and then die
during midgame / shortly later. Then game is decided by the
skill of the good probes and the skill of the zealot x)
I don't really think I want to spend much time in a game where
my reward for being good is to get F2 + a clicked at the start,
then if zerg has any apm and braincells splits off some units to
attack my refineries. Followed up by getting the majority of
units & never really getting to play the game (instead it will
be tower defense with units), and then I have to wait for my
likely incompetent allies to do something.
Yeah, I play in premades, but sometimes you even lose with
that^^ lol, it's not like we stack 6 heXnab terrans into 1 lobby
(there isn't even that many active sadly), when playing just as
duo it's quite possible to lose, especially when being divided
on top and bottom side of map. Even 3 stack loses sometimes, 4
stack is boring, pretty much unloseable (remember to have lost
it once, but it's long time ago when I wasn't as good and we
didn't bunker vs. roach, but wanted to win with marines...)
Zerg needs a complete re-design so that smart decisions, paired
with good macro & micro make a big difference (F2+a-click is a
good play in current zerg state, but it's totally not something
I consider "smart" and targetting refinery with a few units
isn't "good micro" in my book. However I think nobody will
figure out how to do that, most of the forum content regarding
balance is:
-Omg terran OP (especially vets)
-Omg zerg too weak
-Omg Roach too weak (it's not, it's still better than primal /
ultralisk considering how much earlier you get it online, and
brutalisk is only good vs. vets, not vs. elites)
-Random ideas / additions that are not very detailed, don't
really add anything to the game that would make decision making
/ macro / micro a more important. (Guilty of this one myself)
The only semi-decent adjustment post I've seen was Mett talking
about powerfield... it is quite strong, seems ok to weaken it a
bit. I might be biased here, I can take big spine with 40 T1, no
powerfield, 4-5 casualties, so I don't really care much if power
field is slightly nerfed, I've started taking big spines without
it anyways. (Especially vets don't need a power field, because
their base damage is already 6)
#Post#: 1312--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: ExtraLemon Date: December 16, 2020, 10:11 am
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Well, the main issue is that Terran/Zerg doesn't have a high
enough skill cap to hard carry, no matter how overwhelmingly
good you are you can't deal with a full map f2 +upgraded
spawners even if that's all that the Zergs know how to do.
Similarly, you can be the best Zerg in the world yet be crippled
by your ally afking. That's really the main issue in my opinion,
that you can lose to players way worse than you even with very
good play through no fault of your own. It's better for Terran
because you have 5 other people, odds are that one of them won't
sit and die. Even though it's a team game, it's still very
frustrating to lose games because you have useless allies.
#Post#: 1318--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Turb007 Date: December 16, 2020, 2:22 pm
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[quote author=ExtraLemon link=topic=133.msg1312#msg1312
date=1608135089]
Well, the main issue is that Terran/Zerg doesn't have a high
enough skill cap to hard carry, no matter how overwhelmingly
good you are you can't deal with a full map f2 +upgraded
spawners even if that's all that the Zergs know how to do.
Similarly, you can be the best Zerg in the world yet be crippled
by your ally afking. That's really the main issue in my opinion,
that you can lose to players way worse than you even with very
good play through no fault of your own. It's better for Terran
because you have 5 other people, odds are that one of them won't
sit and die. Even though it's a team game, it's still very
frustrating to lose games because you have useless allies.
[/quote]
I agree with this and yes, it is very frustrating when you are
"on a roll" and doing amazing at holding almost all of the
pressure and still able to do damage into the 15-17 minute mark
and then you all of a sudden get ROFL-Stomped with a 100% focus
higher tier unit around the 20 min mark because none of your
allies have done anything except maybe take their buggos. The
story is basically the same with zerg except you may not even be
able to hold your own side because your'e partner thinks that 20
spires (maybe an exageration) before a spawner is how to get
good eco.
However, this IS a TEAM game. You are not supposed to be able to
hold a constant full map f2 (full map f2, meaning from both
zergs I assume?). I don't care how good that terran is, they
should not be able to hold that for very long. This is where
you're allies are supposed to really do something and get damage
in. I understand the frustration that often times they don't,
but again, this is a team game. If none of you're allies act as
a team then you SHOULD lose, no matter your skill level.
This seems like an arguement that could be comparable with melee
2v2's. Sure you can play with random partners, but you have no
gurantee that your partner isn't actually a gold leaguer who
just cannon rushed his way to Masters 3 and as soon as that
doesn't work, he's useless. If you actually want to be
competetive, find a partner. Or, get out of 2v2 and do 1v1's.
Maybe some players would enjoy an actual playable 1v1 version of
hex? I'm not sure, could start a poll or something..
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