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#Post#: 1250--------------------------------------------------
How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: ICEBear Date: December 10, 2020, 7:08 pm
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Personally, I think terran is a little bit too strong right now.
Although I do not have exact win rate statistic, but I feel like
3 average terran (who have ok macro and play aggressively but
with bad micro) can make a zerg struggle pretty hard. I feel
like the big nerfing of roaches and the buffing of shatter might
be the reason. Zerg right now is lacking tools to counter t2
balls. Maybe it is time to nerf the terran a little bit? Try to
make a poll to see what everyone thinks.
#Post#: 1252--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: AAAAPPPPP Date: December 10, 2020, 8:42 pm
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Zerg is absolutely underpowered this patch, as soon as 2 terran
players get shatter and start pushing the game's over
#Post#: 1253--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: ZergTriumph Date: December 10, 2020, 9:03 pm
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The game has always been imbalanced in favor of terran. Instead
of nerfing terran, zerg should be buffed. Specifically, zerg
late game should be buffed. Make primals, ultras and brutas
stronger. Right now the meta is for zerg to go mass roach and
ravs and hope to win.
#Post#: 1254--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Turb007 Date: December 10, 2020, 11:48 pm
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So, the reason I really like this patch is because I play mainy
(80% or so) of my games in random lobbies. And likewise, my
win/loss ratio is pretty mediocre. The game seems semi-fair
right now as both zerg and terran assuming my partner(s) is/are
mediocre. I can usually carry quite a ways regardless of whether
I'm terran or zerg but ultimately it is a team game, so there is
only so much a single person can do. There is no soloing
anymore, which is great (I made an alt account in previous
patch, playing only as terran.. 100% win rate in pubs which was
so so so wrong). I agree with ZergTriumph that terran has always
been overpowered, that's kind of a given. Ideally, 6 flawless
terrans should always beat 2 flawless zergs. As someone who
likes to play zerg a lot but also quite a few terran games, imo,
its very very close in an actual 2v4 right now, meaning that if
2 terrans don't do anything at all even remotely close to
helping the other 4 terran players, then the game is pretty
even. Zerg is nowhere close to being as bad as people keep
making it out to be.. How often do you actually play against 4
extremely good terran players? Let alone 5 or 6? Very rarely..
However, how often do you play against 3 "slightly above
average" players on one side? For me, its quite often. 3
slightly above average = 2.(some decimal) flawless terran
players (in my definition of average players at least). This
means, you need your partners help. Often times, you have a
mediocre partner as zerg who can hardly (if that) hold his own
side against semi-weak opponents, meaning you wont get any help.
On top of that, 1v2, 1 flawless zerg vs 2 flawless terrans, zerg
will lose if zerg's partner doesn't know how to build spawners
and spires at a ratio that even remotely makes sense, and you
will lose your side due to low eco (and partner will almost
always flame you for you're "low eco" despite you having 80% of
the spawners :P). This is why quite a few players won't even
play zerg if it's not premade.
Ultimately, this game would be very hard to balance for a "pro"
2v6 and at the same time a "some pro, some noob" (or any other
variation) lobby. This leads to either adding something very
high skill leveled for the zerg to do (as Speed suggested in a
different thread) or to have a "pro mode" which honestly I'm not
a fan of but could work if its something that's not determined
until after the game/lobby has been initiated.
I've had some of my funnest games I've ever played as zerg in
this patch. Though most of the zerg games I've had a blast in
this patch have been in pre-made with my high school buddy (on
voice chat so we can communicate clearly) or with Ooayo (who
actually knows what he's doing), not random partners. Some of
these games have been wins, some of them a loss; Regardless,
they were super fun, which is the whole point of a game.
All in all though, yes zerg needs some sort of buff. I don't
like the idea of nerfing terran.. I like Speed's idea of having
a "high skill" zerg unit/strategy to survive the early game
personally. Otherwise, if we buff zerg in a general form (lower
cost in any upgrades, supply, etc.) or nerf terran early game,
then noob(ish) zergs are just going to be doing low-tier all-ins
like last patch. Maybe a change in hydras, a certain number of
free hydras at start of game? Microing early game hydras could
be high skill.. Maybe a new or altered infestor unit? etc. Many
of these ideas have been posted on the forum already, just
throwing them out there again.
#Post#: 1260--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: deorai037 Date: December 11, 2020, 2:33 am
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Hey Turb007, with regards to your statement about "slightly
above average" players I'm going to have to disagree, there are
substantially large differences between a player hovering at
"slightly above average" and a high skill player. I'm actually
going to make a separate post about this since I think the data
might be of interest to other people on the forum, but I will
say that when I play Zerg, I don't find it difficult to crush 3
slightly above average (60% winrate) players on my half, because
that usually just means they know the basics of how to play the
game. On the other hand, two high skill players are highly
likely to steamroll me if they're both on my half of the map.
#Post#: 1263--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: RickSanchez Date: December 11, 2020, 4:35 am
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I disagree. While there are no doubts that terran is superior in
stacked lobbies, in public lobbies you see large amounts of bad
terrans and therefore zerg is quite balanced.
[quote author=ZergTriumph link=topic=133.msg1253#msg1253
date=1607655813]
The game has always been imbalanced in favor of terran. Instead
of nerfing terran, zerg should be buffed. Specifically, zerg
late game should be buffed. Make primals, ultras and brutas
stronger. Right now the meta is for zerg to go mass roach and
ravs and hope to win.
[/quote]
Yes, a small ultrabuff would be something. Something like +10hp
would help it alot.
[quote author=deorai037 link=topic=133.msg1260#msg1260
date=1607675601][...]"slightly above average"[...][/quote]
i guess you mean a random terran that doesnt do inbase or 1 gas
strat but still take juicy 5 minutes to take all 3 gasses.
[quote author=Turb007 link=topic=133.msg1254#msg1254
date=1607665714][...]The game seems semi-fair right now as both
zerg and terran assuming my partner(s) is/are
mediocre.[...][/quote]
100%
Due to the facts, that there are mostly like 2-3 above average
or good players per lobby and these try to go zerg and the trash
leaves to terran i see zerg favored in a random scenario.
#Post#: 1266--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Najdorf Date: December 11, 2020, 6:31 am
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It has been some time since the patch has come out and so i feel
i can speak about balance after playing quite a few games as
both zerg and terran.
From a design perspective you want to have points in the game
where the zerg is stronger, and other points in the game where
the terran is stronger. Ideally flipping back and forth as they
each jump to higher tech units.
I really like the chem plant removal, getting tier 2.5 units
(firebats) at the 12 minute mark broke the dynamic of power
swings between zerg and terran.
I like the changes made to roaches, particularly the speed of
the roachlings, it makes roaches a lot less oppressive.
The problem right now is that terran has too smooth of a
transition from T1 push into T2 push and there is no good power
spike for zerg to stabilize the midgame. In order to stop t1
marines zerg needs to buy speed 1, speed 2, armor 1, armor 2,
both roach upgrades, and have infestors sitting on the large
spine crawlers. if your screen is in the wrong spot and you miss
a transfuse or get a stasis on your infestors you lose the game
on the spot. If all of this is in place the terran can simply
walk back home, swap into veteran marines and keep pushing. a
veteran switch requires only 3 minutes of gas time, and during
this time zerg needs to get out brutalisk or infused. In order
to have the economy to get close to pulling this off the zerg
must make significant early game concessions in pressure and
play extremely greedy. in my opinion upgrading any more than
just a handful of spawners before roach tech is simply gambling
that 2 unfocused terrans will miss their t1 timing push. What
this leads to is terran having the upper hand during the early,
early mid, and midgame all in a row, and we miss out on the back
and forth element that is fun in zerg hex.
I would look at finding a way to let zerg have a little more
breathing room between the t1 and t2 timings. I wouldnt do all
of these things but rather consider one or two.
- possibly revert the buff to shatter on veteran marines/and or
elite marines or lump it in with shattering 2
- rework primal roaches or ultras (neither of these units
provide enough power for the cost and it is better to go into
infestor units or directly to brutas)
- remove the armor debuff on the power field. T1 marines can
hold brutalisk if you put the power field on the brutalisk
itself because it removes all the armor. However if you put the
power field on the marines they do not hold. I think this is
related to the lack of place in the game for primals and ultras,
because an army with multiple generators supporting will always
be using power fields for burst damage.
All this being said, i still think that skill has a lot more to
do with winning and losing that some people would like to admit.
On this patch i have seen only a very slight change in my
terran and zerg winrates.
#Post#: 1269--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Speed Date: December 11, 2020, 8:19 am
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Mass roach > T2.
Roach is still OP xD
Yeah, zerg is underpowered, as it always has been. My biggest
issue is that elites > brutalisks. No matter how many bruts I
built on a player with elites (12+ don't do the trick at times),
they wouldn't die, and all the money I focus on bruts is money
I don't put into eco / torras to break turtles. I guess the best
play is to just go for torras, kill the turtles and just hope
the terran with elites doesn't have the balls to push / you keep
it under control with poorly upgraded hydras.
I will go roach-allin every game now I guess, can't even let
semi-decent terrans play their game anymore x). It's sad that an
A2 unit is clearly the strongest unit zerg has, based on what
time it's accessible.
Regarding to what Najdorf said... if you go speed 2, roaches
with ups just for T1 then you are all-inning. You need a mass of
roaches for their upgrades to be worth and at that point if it's
to stop T1 you are all-in, T2 transition takes far more than 3
minutes (yeah, tech is "only" 250 gas, but those veterans aren't
free, hello??), but terrans bought plenty of time if you
invested into all those upgrades to stop it. Seems fair to me
that they win with a T2 unit over your A2 unit, when their T2
unit is supposed to be neck and neck with your A4 (ultralisk)
unit????
But yeah, the game is decided on roach tech, zerg is mostly F2 +
a click gameplay and you just pray for terrans being garbage x)
I don't play much anymore, all this forum writing was very time
consuming and all the people specifically whining at me (not
just on this forum, but discord, reviews and ingame, too) very
demoralizing. I thought I liked zerg better than terran, because
I feel like overcoming a disadvantage is nice, but after having
lost to 6 mediocre terrans without a chance I'm just bored^^ (I
made 6 primals to stop T1 / T2 aggression and was full eco
besides that, but 25min bruts are just too late kek). I lost to
ion btw, something whiners said isn't possible anymore^^
The game will always be imbalanced in favour of one or the other
team, simply because zerg doesn't take (much) skill, there is
little to no sceiling, no one will ever change that xD
Out of the 20-30 games I did play I lost 2 terran games and 1
zerg game. (facing 6 mediocre terrans is pretty rare^^)
#Post#: 1273--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Adam Date: December 11, 2020, 9:38 am
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[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=133.msg1269#msg1269
date=1607696355]
Mass roach > T2.
Roach is still OP xD
[/quote]
mett just started streaming, pls come play with us, go zerg and
kill us with roach
show us all how op they are
bc for now I consider them garbage
#Post#: 1274--------------------------------------------------
Re: How do you feel about the balance of zerghex right now?
By: Speed Date: December 11, 2020, 9:55 am
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Like everything else it only works against semi good players,
how can I beat terrans with it that are offended by being called
"mid tier"? xD
In a "stacked" lobby yeah...
Try not playing stacked lobbies maybe x)
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