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#Post#: 1025--------------------------------------------------
Power Field nerf/removal
By: Mett Gaming Date: November 29, 2020, 12:27 pm
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I've been thinking:
30 Vets insta-melt big spines with the powerfield. (no, you
can't really out-transfuse that, trust me I've tried)
40 standard marines handily overwhelm the zergs best defense
structure with little micro required. (yes, you can actually
out-tranfuse that, trust me I've tried)
My point is: currently zerg does not stand a chance against
13-14 min veterans. Roaches just melt, everything else too and
primals are too far off at that point. (they probably would just
melt too) Making it harder for the terrans to kill the big
spines with the surrounding spawners would allow the zerg to
keep more economy and have a chance to scale into the late game.
My suggestion: Remove the powerfield or get rid of it's damage
boost. It amplifies the marine pushing power way too much,
especially with overcharge added in. That is a straight up 15dps
per marine affected (if my math is correct).
Just an idea. Something needs to happen as zerg is currently
only playable if at least half the terrans are absolutely
incompetent. Might just be a streamer problem, but it is a
problem. With that change terrans would need to put in more
effort to tackle big spines and not just walk over them as they
do now. (might also make it slightly harder to defend ramp
against zerg endgame [if zerg by some miracle makes it there])
As always I'm open to different suggestions.
#Post#: 1026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Field nerf/removal
By: Speed Date: November 29, 2020, 12:52 pm
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Yep, power field is quite strong. Maybe too strong, especially
when looking at T1 marines.
Maybe reduce damage increase from 3 to 2. At the end of the day,
power field requires tech lab and 2k energy, it's a big power
spike, but it comes at a cost.
#Post#: 1028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Field nerf/removal
By: RickSanchez Date: November 29, 2020, 1:16 pm
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[quote author=Mett Gaming link=topic=109.msg1025#msg1025
date=1606674440][...]My suggestion: Remove the
powerfield[...][/quote]
No!! .. wth did I just read?!?
[quote author=<heXnab>Speed link=topic=109.msg1026#msg1026
date=1606675931][...]reduce damage increase from 3 to
2[...][/quote]
Maybe... But rather buff zerg to address meltingspine-issue.
There are dozens of possiblities. To name two:
-> Increase Bigspine HP
-> Decrease Fuse Animation Time
#Post#: 1029--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Field nerf/removal
By: Oayoo Date: November 29, 2020, 1:36 pm
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Removing the powerfield is a huge mistake.
Terrans can't sustain a 40 vet marine push at 14 min... It will
never happen.
furthermore you should be able to have enough units to drain t2
marines energy, they shouldn't be able to push that easily.
I will repeat this again and again, not making economy early
game will make you loose every games as Zerg.
Most zergs loose their games because they go all-in from start.
Capacity spawners must be nerf (check my other threads). This
way Zergs will be obliged to not all-in early which will result
in an overall buff since they will not fall into the noob-trap.
3 ways to nerf capacity:
-Bounty on capacity spawner's units.
-capacity under t1
-capacity nerf (to 4 units to 3 units spawned)
We also like said speed nerf powerfield from +3 to +2. It is
fine.
#Post#: 1035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Field nerf/removal
By: deorai037 Date: November 29, 2020, 3:22 pm
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----------------------regarding power
fields---------------------------
Even without power field, 30 vets are generally going to make
short work of a completely unprotected big spine. Power field is
at its strongest when there's a huge number of t1 marines paired
with power field; +3 damage across 70 t1 marines is an extra 210
per volley, where as +3 damage across 30 vets is an extra 90 per
volley.
The others are largely right in saying that someone with 30 vets
by 13~14 minutes in is unlikely to be able to actually keep up a
push, because un-upgraded vets burn through energy really
quickly.
I don't disagree with the assessment that the sheer strength of
terran t1/t2, in the hands of a high level player, is too
strong.
But from what I've seen, the vast majority of the playerbase
does not know how to aggressively push with t1 marines. There
are many competent, above-average players who are steady,
reliable partners when pushing with t2 or t3 marines, but won't
start pushing down big spines until much later than an
aggressive t1 player. It's fairly unlikely for these players to
push into big spines until the 17~21 minute mark depending on
how safe they feel. Against average players, a mix of roaches +
spine infusions should be more than enough to hold out until
brutas, and against above-average players, slowing them down
with riskier plays early on (for example, redirecting forces
away from an average player to hit a stronger player with a
double wave close to the start) usually buys enough time.
30 vets at the 14 minute mark, or 50~60 t1 marines mowing down
your base, is the exception to the playerbase, not the rule. Two
average Zerg may lose to two above average terrans + four
average terrans, but two high skill zerg can usually win against
two high skill terrans + four average terrans (assuming the high
skill terrans are split up between both halves of the map).
----------------------regarding spawner capacity and "noob
traps"----------------------------
As for what Oayoo is saying, I disagree with the philosophy of
"remove options outright to eliminate noob-traps," because there
are already so many other noob-traps that it'd be like tossing a
dry towel into a rainstorm.
I have a "teach one Zerg newbie a day how to play" policy, and
the first thing I tell new Zerg partners is "hey, you should
only build spawners + spires in the early game because we have
to build up our eco for late game." I will watch my Zerg partner
carefully for the first 90 seconds.
Maybe 1/3 of the time they actually listen, and I proceed to try
and teach the Zerg how to play to the best of my ability. Sure,
sometimes the first thing they build is mass tanklings, but I'm
proud of the newbie Zerg for catching on pretty quickly.
The other 2/3 of the time? People fall into one of the many,
many other noob traps available to Zerg that I explicitly warn
them away from. Sometimes, it's the offensive off-creep hydra.
Other times, it's building like four creep tumors because, idk,
they really like creep. More often than not, it's saving up
money and buying packed mass, ferocity, or attack 1 right off
the bat. At this point, I understand that I will not be the one
to successfully teach them how to play Zerg, and leave.
The problem is, a lot of players just aren't taught how to play
Zerg at all, and so while a significant number of newer Zerg
players would be salvageable if someone just taught them, a lot
of players just end up going 5, 10, 20 games just trying to
vaguely figure out the mechanics of Zerg and falling into noob
traps every time.
Furthermore, nerfing spawner upgrades is also way too subtle of
a change that most average Zerg players will not really be able
to understand or even notice. That's.... exactly why most
players are only average in the first place. Most average
players aren't aware of their own gameplay decisions to make
active changes to their playstyle. At best, you'll have average
Zerg players going "omg I'm losing more," without ever really
pinpointing why they're losing more.
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