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#Post#: 1755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: guest48 Date: August 11, 2024, 9:18 am
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[quote]
Meanwhile, can you comment if your radar ship playstyle
including location was good?
If you answer as No plus you mentioned that many other ships
didn't do well, then it seems like everyone including you didn't
to good but you are the only one who critizes others. How would
you comment that?
[/quote]
I went to the default position, which allowed me to cover our
cap with radar, I could hide behind the island in case of
overwhelming fire and wait for the oportunitty to expose my two
frontal guns to do damage in relative safety.
The other flank had it's own Alaska, so we covered both caps. I
am not aware of a better position. If you do so, please feel
free to make a suggestion.
#Post#: 1756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 9:24 am
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My chosen playstyle is to not cap and not any typical Wows
commnutiy method but to find an enemy DD and duel it with torps
and guns.
That's why i didn't cap in the example video and i don't do it
almsot ever anyway because it is a bad thing to do.
But this time i didn't find the Dd but found only a hydro BB.
[quote author=Chaplain1 al Dente link=topic=123.msg1742#msg1742
date=1722725862]
I found that that the best allowed ship for me is Kita with 8km
torps.
And the tactics is to try to duel an enemy DD, both Kita guns
help against msot DDs plus 8km faster torps help aswell in the
duel.
And i don't see any better option from me from my available ship
choices.
Very well work some agressive tactics, like the maps where the B
cap is inside the A cap, there you jsut all together try to swim
into it imemdiately with no team split and keep it. The idea is
that you get 2 caps in 1 location. Often of course some ships
are afraid of and do team split and wont join the B, but even if
few join then it works well and is interesting.
I don't know which tactics and ships to suggest to others. I
don't suggest any team splits of course with such 5 players MM
but you the commnuity doesn't change either, so just try to be i
na group that has 3-5 ships in total. and try to chose something
that can kill 1 enemy easily. A close combat DD with short
torpedo range shoudl be a good choice. There are such extreme Dd
like Paolo, that is perfect but it has too bad concealment, the
concealment should be around 6.2km or so, not as bad as Paolo
has. If you play primitive ship types, then hydro ships to see
torps, i would play german BBs for example. Cv is always the
most respected and most advanced choice always in all game
modes, take any Cv. In cruisers i don't know what to suggest,
either a radar cruiser or at least with a CR with a smoke. In al
lship choices torpedo range should be short. Some play Halford
which is totally wrong choice because it can't make enough
impact to the battle result with weak 4 torps.
For me the Kita with 8km torps seems good and with that i can
complete the league.
There has been only few times where i haven't found a solution
ship and method for the gold league. But this time the recepy
seems ready finally. Your main goal is to jsut eliminate quickly
1 ship, that bring the victory, and from advanced ship types
that can be achieved quickly with the Kita.
If you know some other recepies then share your opinions.
[quote author=Chaplain1 al Dente link=topic=123.msg1739#msg1739
date=1722613908]
My Rankeds Golden Memembers League ship choice these days is
quite limited.
...
HTML https://imgur.com/w7ms6Rh
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 1757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 9:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Wosator link=topic=227.msg1755#msg1755
date=1723385910]
I went to the default position, which allowed me to cover our
cap with radar, I could hide behind the island in case of
overwhelming fire and wait for the oportunitty to expose my two
frontal guns to do damage in relative safety.
The other flank had it's own Alaska, so we covered both caps. I
am not aware of a better position. If you do so, please feel
free to make a suggestion.
[/quote]
you don't have to do team splits at all, you could have joined
the so called difficult cap where the enemy DD went and it was
predictable that he goes there.
team splits are wrong even because math explains it and the
video demosntrates it. quantity 2 loses to quantity 3 almsot
always, jsut mathematical health points pool on the 3 side is
bigger and the video demonstrates it very well.
Just have in mind mentality that team splits are wrong and end
often katastrophic way liek in the video, so as a radar ship go
radar a DD next time.
#Post#: 1758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 9:40 am
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when yuo send out torpedos you try to aim so that it may hit 2
ships if possible, i called it Universal torping.
The same is with Universal smoke, it wil lbenefit a cruiser
little bit plus you can swim behind it as well for 30 seconds
after it to get a benefit as well. But in this battle i didn't
feel that it is wise to swim behind it.
sitting in smoke also reduces the posibilities to send out
torpedos, because you must go as close as possible before
torping, specially against hydro vehicles.
#Post#: 1759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: guest48 Date: August 11, 2024, 9:44 am
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[quote]1. One argument is that there are generally bad and good
habits and you just follow them until they are deeply installed.
For example in martial arts people train some movements etc that
often even are not most optimal in some cases. And sitting in
smoke is one such generally bad habit so i aömost never sit in
smoke with DDs, i dont develope such habit.[/quote]
Depending on the martial arts. I hold black belt in some, and I
have trained in others. Japanese martial arts for example, along
with some others, are mostly choreography. They don't always
apply in real fighting scenarios. But I want to keep the subject
relevant so I wont lay my arguements for this.
You have a ship, that has certain characteristics and combos. If
you don't use these combos, then you don't use your ship. In
this example, you played one of the strongest DDs in terms of
guns, but you didn't use them at all. Instead you played this
ships as a torp boat at best, but this ship is simply not fit
for this role. If you do the math, it simply doesn't work out at
all to play this ship as a torpedo boat. If you want to play a
torpedo boat, any other DD that sports torps is far superior to
Kitakaze.
A testament for this, is the fact that you didn't manage to
score any hits other than in Shroder, which I explained already
why you managed to do so.
[quote]2. DD sitting in smoke means DD doing a weak cruiser role
and that means a DD role is lost. If DD scouts around it may
spot torps and other ships etc but in smoke as a cruiser it
can't do such DD roles. It is wise to stay in the DDs main role.
In my opinion Dds are scouts, are not cappers, are mainly
torpedo ships, DD hunters. It is against DD role to sit in
smoke.[/quote]
Kitakaze has superior HE damage to almost every T9 cruiser, even
though it is classified as a destroyer. Furthermore, the
handling of the ship, is a hybrid between a cruiser and a
destroyer weighting more towards the cruiser. Low speed for a
destroyer, huge turning radius and so on. So yes, essentially
you are playing a cruiser, even though stats like HP,
detectability etc, are destroyer level.
Yes, indeed, when spotting is needed, you might stay open water
to spot. In this battle there was no such a need at all, since
enemy DD went to the other flank, and died early. So this role
was not needed at all in the specific battle. This destroyer is
bad at spotting torps, because it is extremely slow to turn,
which means, that it can fall victim to torps pretty much as any
cruiser would fall, to add to this, it doesn't sport
hydroacoustics.
Kitakaze can be a good DD killer, just because of it's damage
output, but in terms of survivability, it is not that good,
again turning circle, accelaration, max speed, low HP pool etc
making it so and so in this role. In case that you are 1vs1 with
another DD, you can gun it down in most of the times but if this
DD has support, you most likely will die with it.
[quote]3. it is also dangerous to sit in smoke, for exampel
torpedos can hit such DD and even BBs blind shoot into the
smoke.[/quote]
I agree. It's not easy, but it's part of the game. That's why i
said in earlier comments that you need to find the opportunity
to sit in smoke and farm. Maybe you wont use the full duration
of the smoke, still you need to do this if you play this ship.
To help you with that, you can keep an angle to where you expect
the torps to come, so that you show a smaller silhouette
allowing you to dodge.
[quote]4. sitting in smoke doesn't cause anything special,
sometimes you make +50k damage so while you make with torps the
same amount plus do spotting etc. If you prefer sitting in smoke
then use cruisers. There are specialized Dds that don't have
torps at all, there i understand that they soemtimes sit in
smoke but even they should not sit so often, better they be on
the move and spot things and shoot ifthey feel safe.
[/quote]
The 50k damage you keep mentioning could be the difference
between losing and wining. If these 50k damage mean that you
were able to light permanent fires, or finish enemy ships, then
they absolutely matter. If these 50k damage were spread to
multiple ships, and you didn't capitalize on fires to make them
permanent, instead you let them heal that damage, then indeed it
is not so important.
You should treat Kitakaze almost as it has no torps. You can use
them for area denial, but you can't expect to get many hits to
the point that you change the course of the battle. It might
happen, but seldom.
Why use a cruiser to sit in smoke? As I explained earlier,
Kitakaze is a hybrid, and the damage output with HE is superior
to almost any T9 cruiser. No other DD is more specialized at
dealing gun damage than Kitakaze.
[quote]About capping topic, i never ever cap at all i nthe
beginning, i have such habit for years. There is no benefit in
capping, that sounds similar to your idea that setting smoke to
some cruisers has almost no benefits.[/quote]
That is ok. You can let enemy dd cap first, then you go in and
cap an uncontested cap. Of course there is benefit in capping.
That's one of the main objectives of the game, and that's how
you win a battle.
#Post#: 1760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 10:07 am
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[quote author=Wosator link=topic=227.msg1759#msg1759
date=1723387488]
Depending on the martial arts. I hold black belt in some, and I
have trained in others. Japanese martial arts for example, along
with some others, are mostly choreography. They don't always
apply in real fighting scenarios. But I want to keep the subject
relevant so I wont lay my arguements for this.
[/quote]
It is common to repeat martial arts commnuity's opinions about
choreography etc, jsut like in Wows commnutiy peopel repeat al
ltogether the same things which apepars liek a religion at the
end. I can add about the so called choreography etc false
commnuity opinions 2 counter arguments:
1. the appearant choreography relates to the energy work, jsut
like yoga, specially Kundalini Yoga may apepar with
unpractical/weird movements, but from so called inside it moves
energies that give mind blowing results that not even strongest
drugs i nthe world can produce. So, the choreography is very
fine.
2. in nondualistic viepoint there does not exist any real
doer/pilot, there are no martial arts figther or you, also
Buddhism explains it, the science only demos in Yuotube that
there is no free will/choice, but even that is enough.
Both 2 arguments totally debunks martial arts commnuity with
such choreography argument.
This is an offtopic, but why not to tal kabout it, we haven't
actually started a debate yet, because i don't see any very
clear message in our talk, you jsut say that sitting in smoke is
good, i don't think you ever win such topic, but it is a
debatable topic anyway, in some battles you may succeed with
such habit, so how to prove if it is good a bad, jsut a one
way/method, so i don't think we result anywhere with the debate.
#Post#: 1761--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: guest48 Date: August 11, 2024, 10:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]you don't have to do team splits at all, you could have
joined the so called difficult cap where the enemy DD went and
it was predictable that he goes there.
team splits are wrong even because math explains it and the
video demosntrates it. quantity 2 loses to quantity 3 almsot
always, jsut mathematical health points pool on the 3 side is
bigger and the video demonstrates it very well.
Just have in mind mentality that team splits are wrong and end
often katastrophic way liek in the video, so as a radar ship go
radar a DD next time.
[/quote]
You describe Deafeat in Detail strategy. It might work, but if
the fleet is well coordinated, which is not the case at all in
battles with random people. Leaving one flank exposed could
create a wild cross fire scenario. The reason that the other
flank died that fast, was just because they were morons. They
pushed like bots and died like bots, because they were clueless
on how this game works and it's as simple as that. They should
stay in a safe distance and keep the enemy ships busy instead of
pushing, and it's as simple as that.
It's not maths or science at all. Let's say a ship can do max
10k damage per salvo, that is if every shell hits and causes the
maximum damage. If our ships could keep their distance and use
their speed to dodge enemy salvos instead of pushing, this
damage could be reduced to ~1k average or something in those
lines.
#Post#: 1762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 10:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Wosator link=topic=227.msg1761#msg1761
date=1723389037]
You describe Deafeat in Detail strategy. It might work, but if
the fleet is well coordinated, which is not the case at all in
battles with random people. Leaving one flank exposed could
create a wild cross fire scenario.
[/quote]
We have debunked the popular crossfire argument many times. Even
if i rememeber my last weeks battles the ni asked in chat: did
you see any crossfire at all with your obsessive team split? and
the answer is silence most times. There most times is no
crossfires because to olong range and rocks obstacles and
because the awereness is on the ships close to you. Of course
primitive ship players like to get by the RNG citadel hits in
crossfire situations but those situations happen close with
range opponents as well and rarely are used and succed in long
range from other cap areas.
even in this battle video, did you see any crossfires i na
splitted teams? No. so why to repeat such debunked argument at
all.
#Post#: 1763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: Chaplain1 Date: August 11, 2024, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Wosator link=topic=227.msg1759#msg1759
date=1723387488]
You have a ship, that has certain characteristics and combos. If
you don't use these combos, then you don't use your ship. In
this example, you played one of the strongest DDs in terms of
guns, but you didn't use them at all. Instead you played this
ships as a torp boat at best, but this ship is simply not fit
for this role. If you do the math, it simply doesn't work out at
all to play this ship as a torpedo boat. If you want to play a
torpedo boat, any other DD that sports torps is far superior to
Kitakaze.
[/quote]
We disagree about the Kita characteristics. You seem to
generally say that it is a cruiser i say it is a scout. There
are other DD examples which outplay Haru-line in cruiser
playstyle, the Kita has nothing special and is even weaker, but
you seem to believe it is one of the best in something. No, it
is a non premium verstile ship, can be called a torpedo ship as
well. I don't have a choice of other ships if you look my
account's choice lsit, i decided a playstyle with Kita to kill
enemy Dds in more agressive clsoe range duels. There is no need
to play the msot optimal way, it is totally fine to play the
style where you feel right, it is totally more than enough to be
in gold league. If you want to use such Characteristics
argument, then you should have swimemd to the enemy predictable
DD location and radared it and kileld it, also assuming that
your other team mates cannot do alone ususally anything- if you
want such Characteristics/radar argument.
#Post#: 1764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Playing Kitakaze
By: guest48 Date: August 11, 2024, 10:26 am
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Well honestly, I did my best to lay my case. If you say that
Kitakaze is a spotting DD, i rest my case. It seems that the way
we perceive this game is completely different, besides I don't
see any real argument from your side.
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