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#Post#: 832--------------------------------------------------
King of the Sea Tournament
By: JensonHuson Date: November 11, 2022, 4:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
i fell like, this so called King of the Sea tournament is not
something that makes players good for the game. It shows the bad
impact stats have on the game and its an elitist showing off of
some few individuals that think they know the game. Also the
fact, that this WG EVENT is marketed as community event, even
though its made by WG and organised by 2 Clans from the
community only PAID and SHAFT. This is not community organised,
as its WG and only 2 Clans of the game which is 0,000001% of the
so called community
#Post#: 835--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: wows Date: November 12, 2022, 5:16 am
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[quote author=JensonHuson link=topic=143.msg832#msg832
date=1668206137]
i fell like, this so called King of the Sea tournament is not
something that makes players good for the game.
[/quote]
i made your sentence shorter: "King of the Sea tournament has
issues". My first ultra generalizing opinion for such statement
is that it is irrelevant which issues are in computer game
turnaments. In the real money Poker turnaments, both via
internet and in real, where the prize pool is not 50k but 1m,
are some issues, but those minor issues are still irrelevant
because it is an irrelevant entertainment tournament. And at the
ultimate budhistic viewpoint there is no Free Will and things
happen itself and are perfect. But my such ultra-general
response wouldn't have much value because in that case you could
ask what is the point of me writing at all and having that forum
etc.
Poker and other torunaments have internet issues sometimes,
sometimes other obstacles that prevents the best talents to
participiate etc, but poker industry still continues with such
irrelevant issues.
Every opinion is based on the so called base values and seems
like your statement shows a value that people should get better
in entertainment and have such goal/value. I can imagine that
young people have such goal in Western countries but not in
India, Iran, etc, because in India they don't have money for
internet and food, and in Iran their value/goal is to get to the
Paradise. And different political aprties have different vlaues
and hence different opinions. In my opinion it is fine to
compete little bit because it prepares for the later life which
is full of competition at work, sport, etc. But i don't feel
that one benefits with very obsessive competing or being very
obsessed in any entertainment. At the budhistic point all
competitions are Ego feeding and in general Seeking and seeking
causes suggerings- it is like researching new ships and then new
and new because i nthe background there is some kind of seeking
feeling that maybe if you seek well you find the ideal ship etc.
Let them do the irrelevant turnament with some i issues, it is
better than nothing, provides some needfu lexperiences for young
people. But obviously all those participants won't even remember
that even after 5 years, and the prize money they get is very
likely irrelevantly small. I udnerstand that 50k is divided by
3x(2x9)=48 players so everyone gets perhaps 1k or so. If a young
person really wants to make money and not actually feed sick ego
then he could learn either programming, French, or lock picking
instead.
The bigger picture behind Poker and Wows tournaments is
obviously to manipulate new customers emotions. When a new
potentional person hears a number 50k then his emotions elevates
and he starts to imagine what he could do with 50k and he enters
the Wows game and buys premium ships for 1k or enters casino and
loses 10k. That's why they make tournaments and other such
promotive things and advertisements. Business owners don't care
about Wows players or a street walkers, they care about profit,
and if you were in the businessman's shoes then you would very
liekly have the same attitude. In young ages people have naive
beleives that the world is fair and others care about them etc.
[quote author=JensonHuson link=topic=143.msg832#msg832
date=1668206137]
It shows the bad impact stats have on the game
[/quote]
Very nice to hear critics against stats.
I'm not aware how they select participants for the tournament?
In internet poker everyone can participate who pay the ticket,
in Wows maybe they require a minimum RandomsWR to enter? In that
case such requirement is obviously with issues because one can
buy an account and we have given in this forum plenty of times
arguments that Stats are historical averages that are unsuitable
for any skill evaluation etc. I beleive that everyone can
register their 9-members group to the turnament no matter of the
skin color, highschool grades or RandomsWR. But even in such
case such tournament has obviously luck like many sports and
Poker, so the winner of tournament is definitely not actually
the strongest-smartest but in some amount just the luckiest.
Like in Poker you jsut need luck to get good cards, good
internet, no flu and distractions, etc. Having the TOP 1 title
after a football, poker or wows tournament doesn't mean that one
is actually with the best skills. But the society of course
likes titles and likes to have uplooking attitude later toward
th winners. Well, that is the society's problem, not yours and
not mine. And at the more ultimate level all kind of titles are
misleading illusions. Nowadays you can obtain a title "doctor",
professor, specialist etc quite easily if you want.
It is difficult to say how to organize the world better and some
say that Democracy is the best possible way to organize, but it
is with issues. I am not sure which solution you would suggest
for tournaments and Stats. My genera lsuggestion is the
budhistic brainwash* that i do: don't care about Stats and
things.
[quote author=JensonHuson link=topic=143.msg832#msg832
date=1668206137]
and its an elitist showing off of some few individuals that
think they know the game.
[/quote]
Yes, life is full of people with the Specialist title. It is
wise to follow the flow, take the life as it is. But of course
Critics is a good thing too, and we enjoy the critics here.
Your every sentnce shows your values/believes and this sentence
shows that you think it is a valuable thing to have
knowledge/skills of an entertainment game. Are you sure that
your values are Good and won't change in the future?
[quote author=JensonHuson link=topic=143.msg832#msg832
date=1668206137]
Also the fact, that this WG EVENT is marketed as community
event, even though its made by WG and organised by 2 Clans from
the community only PAID and SHAFT. This is not community
organised, as its WG and only 2 Clans of the game which is
0,000001% of the so called community
[/quote]
Yes, it sounds not good if a participiant is either a Judge or
organizer. Separation of powers is reasonable in politics and
court and everywhere. But if the context/area is an irrelevant
area liek entertainemnt, and, the "Separation of powers"
conflict hasn't actually caused issues yet, and there are not
much resources/staff to hire additional organizers, and etc etc,
then, it makes the "Separation of powers" argument practically
irrelevant. Would you suggest that WG itself alone would
organize everything? In a way young people get a valuable
organizing experience which i like and secondly it makes the
even more Flat/Democratic by giving some powers/roles to young
people instead of the 1 authority. I'm not sure how to do the
irrelevant event in the irrelevant entertainment sector more
fair and better.
And yes, mainly in politics and business, but also in Wows and
everywhere humans play with words and meanings and they may
advertize their goals with the word community which might not be
an appropriate word. Well, the general suggestion is again that
Ethics is never perfect one thing but varies a lot by countries,
ages, values, etc, but try to be yourself a good monk with good
ethics and do yourself better- for exampel make a software game
yourself and conduct professionally the tournaments and use
adequate sentences yourself. Isn't it irrelevant if they title
some things as Community etc?
The real issues i nthe world is for example slavery. For example
the new football stadium in a islamic country recently was built
by slaves whose passports were taken away from the employer and
they cannot run away wrom the slave work anymore, many died and
many killed while constructing the football facility. This is
the real issue compared to Wows tournament issues that you gave.
Also children are sold nowadays for food in Asian countries, in
ukranian War soldiers on both sides do nasty things like all
soldiers in all countries have always done, etc. So, the world
is not a nice place and an entertainment game issues are very
irrelevant therefore.
How would you suggest to organize a tournament in wows? I would
do like it was done years ago in internet Poker. Everyone had a
right to participate and it had a tree-like structure/format
where eventually the few TOP players played with each other and
who got a better luck or better corruptive deal with the
organizer became the winner and the brainwashed crowed saluted
the winner but non-brainwashed ones didn't.
In mythology they don't use words Lord, King but the word God
instead. For example there was a god of the Sea. I am not sure
how else way to name that tournament. But the current name is
very intuitive and expected. But maybe one can replace the word
Sea with the Ocean and something more and it would sound even
nicer. Very egoic title of cource- his majesty himself!
#Post#: 854--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P Date: November 14, 2022, 4:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I looked a bit deeper into King of the Sea or also known as
KOTS.
In the round of the last 6 teams remaining, there were no
players remaining, that had stats that were green on Wows
numbers (its the easiest to compare on short notice) and no one
had below 60% WR. This means, that these clans are either racist
and dont take people below the metrics mentioned above or
something else is going on there.
Additionally, the tournament is called King of the Sea, which
implies, that these players should be the best out there, but in
this tournament, players do not need to fight against carriers
or submarines. Does this really mean, that they are the best,
when they are not fighting everything that is implemented in
this game. They lack the counterplay against very real threads
in the world of random battles or ranked.
Additionally, the power being spread by 2 clans only does not
seem to be good, as it seems, that they are biased towards some
ships being limited or banned from the tournament. For example,
every ship that is not obtainable anymore cant participate,
which means, the players dont play the optimal setup.
Additionally, there are big limits, where these 2 organizing
clans were biased. Max 1 Ohio and Kremlin combined, 1Petro and
napoli combined, 3 Kleber, Marceau and Ragnar. This means there
are some interesting things going on in that tournament, which
make it very flawed and let players call themselves the best,
even though they seem to lack a lot of things that are real in
random and ranked battles.
If you want to read into some interesting things, go onto that
discord, its very interesting and a lot of content for this
forum
HTML https://discord.gg/TV3weJ7
#Post#: 856--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: Moderator1 Date: November 15, 2022, 4:19 am
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So, let's talk in this topic all aspects of that KOS event.
My interest is firstly the rules they have in their web page. I
looked by the given link into the KOS page and took their rules
which are below now.
I comment those inlined with another font perhaps.
The main 2 things from the rules are: Stats shaming and
Moderation Talks.
Talking about Moderation or any other improvement shoud be
totally fine, and an organization should be open to any talks.
Just make a folder ModerationTalks if needed and answer there
after 1 week if so busy but don't prohibit it.
Stats Shaming seems to be our stats-Racism which the official
forum is full so i am amazed if they have such rule i ntheir
tournament forum and i greet it of course.
--
[quote]
Wargaming - King of the Sea
Rules and Community Standards
Be yourself
Don't pretend to be a Wargaming employee, coordinator,
adjudicator or referee.
Fine, but personally i don't mind creatively taking many roles.
Identity theft should be prohibited everything else is divine
creativity.
Don't be a jerk
Be nice to your fellow captains.
Not fine. Don't use informal subjective words like Jerk in
rules.
Personal attacks
Stat shaming, personal attacks, threats or excessive trolling
are prohibited.
Don't use subjective slang words like Trolling. But looks like
only excessive Trolling is prohibited, can you define how much
trolling is fine?
What is "stat shaming"? Internet says: " Stat shaming is more
about a forum tactic of trying to shut someone's opinion down by
simply pointing at their statistics". I believe it is
stats-Racism and does not have to do about tactics but is used
against any opinion and any goal. In overall, i greet such rule
of course. I don't think there is a need to mention Racism if
they already mention more general term "personal attacks" which
includes already stats shamings etc. But fine, dupliation is
fine sometimes for some reasons.
When in doubt, take it to a private chat
If you have an argument, take it to a DM.
Not fine. Freedom of speech means everyone can talk and
Moderator's rule is to relocate dialogues if needed to
appropriate folders but never delete them. I don't know what is
DM.
Religious and Political Discussions
Keep these out of this discord.
But the game is full of Slava-slogans. If you can keep those
away from the tournament then fine.
Posting exploits/hacks
Any promotion or linking to exploits or forbidden mods is
prohibited.
This topic has always been hipocritical: why you prohibit
something by words and not by software? Just make the game so
that Mods are not allowed and no need later to bother about such
rules.
Discussing moderation
If you’ve had a post moderated, please contact an adjudicator in
DM.
Not fine. Anywhere in life/forum where you see such
non-democratic rule of "Discussing moderation prohibited": stay
away from that organization/job. That's it. Secondly, your posts
should not be modified ever by others, it is clsoe to the
identity theft topic. Under your identity/account should come
out only your thoughts and nobody other's, so editing your posts
is never allowed in adequate communities. The exception is
Administrative editing etc but never deleting any part of your
message etc.
Pinging
Keep pinging to a minimum and do not ping roles. Pinging staff
members is strictly forbidden.
I don't understand, is Pinging allowed by software and means
chatting? If so, then why is chatting prohibited if Staff has to
answer to people's question.
Don't send unsolicited DMs to WG staff
Please contact adjudicators or coordinators if you have an
issue.
I don't know what "unsolicited " means but the first definition
by Google says it is "unwanted" well that definition is wrong
because you don't know if you want or don't want until you get
it first. So, this word is totally wrong. The attitude should
be: everyone are welcomed to talk and do other Human Rights.
NSFW
Content posted here should be "safe for work".
I don't know what that term means.
Anime content
No anime/weeb stuff outside of the weeb cave.
Anime should be japanese child-p-orn comics, in other words
pedophilia, sexual feelings directed towards children. Yes, that
should be away but any kind of spam-images are questionable. You
can have sexual images with animals, grandmas etc. Why to
prohibit only Anime?
[/quote]
Source:
HTML https://discord.com/channels/252881380885659648/954005393519034398
#Post#: 857--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: wows Date: November 15, 2022, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P link=topic=143.msg854#msg854
date=1668463766]
in this tournament, players do not need to fight against
carriers or submarines. Does this really mean, that they are the
best, when they are not fighting everything that is implemented
in this game.
[/quote]
I first comment your opinion about the CVs/Subs with total
agreement.
I don't understand either why not to have Rankeds and
Tournaments with the same ship types you have in Randoms.
Well, who knows why they leave out those but maybe they explain
why. We jsut have to search where they explain. Or perhaps they
are in their minds so big kings that they don't bother to
explain to people, or they follow the holy rule "Moderation
Discussion prohibited" and that attitude make them jsut make
rules without any explanations.
Obviously CV/s/Subs should be in the Tournament and everywhere,
and there are no good explanations to leave them out.
--
A random example post from their forum is below. If their rules
don't have anything about such post then their rules are not
adequate. Such post should be placed to Offtopic folder but they
have it in the main folder.
HTML https://imgur.com/4M2NYNc
[quote]
[noAdmin] Tobiassho
—
20/07/2021
Hello my friends, I have a personal request. You probably heard
about the flooding in Germany. It's right where I grew up. My
friends and family are all fine and had no or little direct
damage. The solidarity in this area is enormous. Hundreds of ppl
are working day and night to get things back to normal.
My dad is working for a non profit organisation running a
kindergarten and a youth club. Both their furniture were
completely destroyed. My parents were there to clean and so many
ppl are helping. To buy new furniture they also need money.
There are a lot of ppl in need right now so do what you can if
you can spare a little. If you want to help to rebuild those
facilities you can donate here:
HTML https://gofund.me/3955169a
(Description is in German but I'll post some pictures taken by
dad. If you have questions you can PM me.)
Please share and thanks a lot! Also thanks to WG for the
opportunity to share here.
...
[/quote]
( Why the font size inside the Quote is smallerthan other text
and can it be changed in the Settings- if anyone knows then tell
here pelase. )
#Post#: 858--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: Moderator1 Date: November 15, 2022, 5:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P link=topic=143.msg854#msg854
date=1668463766]
Additionally, there are big limits, where these 2 organizing
clans were biased. Max 1 Ohio and Kremlin combined, 1Petro and
napoli combined, 3 Kleber, Marceau and Ragnar.
[/quote]
Again i must agree that such limitation has issues and mainly
such issues:
1. if a tournament's goal is to select best athlete then it
should not limit ships, ship types, maps, and other elements you
see in the Randoms.
2. if there are ship limits then it means they agree that some
ships are not balanced, are overpowered, etc.
I guess we can find many issues from that tournament and it is
very healthy if there is a forum which talks about issues and
things. As said above earlier then this tournament is an Ego
feeding tournament and the winenrs suffer for sure in the future
for big ego. I should give more examples in another topic about
the Ego term and impact. In short, such people will go to the
life one day and having a very arrogant behaviour and get
lessons very quickly because in the real world nobody cares
about their Stats and doesn't accept their stats-racism and
egoic behaviour. So, we should be supportive to the winners
because they will get difficult times if they don't already have
them.
#Post#: 925--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P Date: November 22, 2022, 3:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I dont know if you have taken the "EU" Role in the
#role-assignment channel, but there was some interesting thing
today, a random guy wanted to abuse his imaginary moderator
power to get someone chat banned. Interesting to see, but only
if you got the EU role
Direct link to message (if you have the EU role)
HTML https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/252881380885659648/1044708793776353310/unknown.png<br
/>
#Post#: 926--------------------------------------------------
Re: King of the Sea Tournament
By: Moderator1 Date: November 22, 2022, 4:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for mentioning that EU channel assignement thing, i did
it and now see more content.
The general EU-chat has a Gulag
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
joke as a sticky message
over the forum as you see the attached image. Well, a very short
reaction is that one should not do jokes with Gulag because it
is conencted to very big sufferings. But i will look tomorrow
more content from there.
What you mention is that there seems to be some corrupted
moderators. Yes, very surely they are corrupted there. Young
teenagers there got power feaver or how is it called in English,
and abuse their role and power. Well, a very-very high and
tolerative standpoint is that you always should forgive to
kittens/children, but if you don't teach them already in the
early ages and only forgive everything then they may develope
criminal mindset soon and become terrorist even. I am not on a
so high level and sugegst them to all come to this forum to
learn behaving and things.
I look tomorrow more closely to that forum. Thansk for the good
source.
HTML https://imgur.com/MeVClzf
[quote author=Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P link=topic=143.msg925#msg925
date=1669152490]
I dont know if you have taken the "EU" Role in the
#role-assignment channel, but there was some interesting thing
today, a random guy wanted to abuse his imaginary moderator
power to get someone chat banned. Interesting to see, but only
if you got the EU role
Direct link to message (if you have the EU role)
HTML https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/252881380885659648/1044708793776353310/unknown.png
[/quote]
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