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#Post#: 7540--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: guest32
Date: August 24, 2014, 4:20 pm
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There is no reason to cause drama. If you dont like the way the
clan is run then leave. There is no reason we can't all just
have fun and enjoy the fucking game this clan was designed for.
Put your big boy panties on or take your panties and go
somewhere else! No matter what my status is I am sick of
everyone acting like children. Grow the fuck up and enjoy the
game with the people you used to enjoy playing with. Somehow
this clan needs to have a structure to its 180+ members. I for
one do not have the time to play the game and babysit this
forum. I choose to come here to laugh with people that I have
gotten to know since the beta and somehow this has become a
place where drama must always be.
#Post#: 7541--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: ta2dflip
Date: August 24, 2014, 4:48 pm
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For the record, I am not trying to stir up the shit pot. People
say things like "can't wait for the clan wars" then come here
and start the interclan war, that's awesome. Some people want
more rules and people like me want less to no rules. you can't
blame the BoD for Similar and Cernig, even Cernig said that, he
blamed another member, the same one that Similar would have
blamed and to deny that shit is a lie. Straight up folks, there
are some of you that like the drama, you feed off that shit. I
was pissed that Cernig left, just like a lot of folks. I didn't
know Tink, but learning what happened I felt threatened, "when
was I going to have to defend myself against the BoD and how
would that go down. Then I took a step back and came to this
conclusion, I would never defend myself, my actions, or anything
I've ever said to any member of this clan no matter how high or
low you rank, you're not my superior. If you think the clan is
run wrong, start your own and see how it goes, having people
constantly coming to you crying like little bitches about what
some other clan member said or did...are you fucking kidding
me???? Someone wants to tattle on me, two words for you "FUCK
OFF", end of story, and not regrets. I personally have made some
online hommies that I happen to enjoy the fuck out of playing
with, do they feel the same, I don't care, because we still play
together, we still cover each others asses, and we still laugh
at each others stupid fucking jokes. I like the forum because I
get to keep up with what's going on in the clan, the game, and
those that want to share and I get to share as well. Yes, people
make valid points in some of the things they say and if the BoD
wants to show that they value the members intake, then an open
discussion needs to ensue, that's how shit get's done. Bottom
line is the board is there to govern the overall activities of
the clan, not to settle piss ant arguments. I've only had issue
with one person here and it's because he liked to stir up the
shit pot and I started wondering if I was going to offend said
person, I removed him from my friends list and don't fucking
care if that violates any rules. I can't stop the drama here or
anywhere, all I can do is what it takes to keep the shit out of
my ears as best I can. In all honesty I had looked at starting
my own clan because I didn't want to have to deal with the
uprise in drama, then I had a great thought, make good with some
of the people that are in here and play tanks...holy shit, what
a concept. Someday, I might make my own clan and I would want to
make it an affiliate of the OFF because I dig you cats, and am
not looking to burn any bridges, but there are a ton of things I
would do different. Well my dinner is ready so I'm out. Comment,
kick me out, whatever, I'll still play tanks and I'll keep my
friends list as is because I fucking can, end this thread and go
play. Have a fantastic day people.
#Post#: 7543--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: guest32
Date: August 24, 2014, 5:01 pm
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--- Quote from: ta2dflip link ---
>
> For the record, I am not trying to stir up the shit pot.
People say things like "can't wait for the clan wars" then come
here and start the interclan war, that's awesome. Some people
want more rules and people like me want less to no rules. you
can't blame the BoD for Similar and Cernig, even Cernig said
that, he blamed another member, the same one that Similar would
have blamed and to deny that shit is a lie. Straight up folks,
there are some of you that like the drama, you feed off that
shit. I was pissed that Cernig left, just like a lot of folks. I
didn't know Tink, but learning what happened I felt threatened,
"when was I going to have to defend myself against the BoD and
how would that go down. Then I took a step back and came to this
conclusion, I would never defend myself, my actions, or anything
I've ever said to any member of this clan no matter how high or
low you rank, you're not my superior. If you think the clan is
run wrong, start your own and see how it goes, having people
constantly coming to you crying like little bitches about what
some other clan member said or did...are you fucking kidding
me???? Someone wants to tattle on me, two words for you "FUCK
OFF", end of story, and not regrets. I personally have made some
online hommies that I happen to enjoy the fuck out of playing
with, do they feel the same, I don't care, because we still play
together, we still cover each others asses, and we still laugh
at each others stupid fucking jokes. I like the forum because I
get to keep up with what's going on in the clan, the game, and
those that want to share and I get to share as well. Yes, people
make valid points in some of the things they say and if the BoD
wants to show that they value the members intake, then an open
discussion needs to ensue, that's how shit get's done. Bottom
line is the board is there to govern the overall activities of
the clan, not to settle piss ant arguments. I've only had issue
with one person here and it's because he liked to stir up the
shit pot and I started wondering if I was going to offend said
person, I removed him from my friends list and don't fucking
care if that violates any rules. I can't stop the drama here or
anywhere, all I can do is what it takes to keep the shit out of
my ears as best I can. In all honesty I had looked at starting
my own clan because I didn't want to have to deal with the
uprise in drama, then I had a great thought, make good with some
of the people that are in here and play tanks...holy shit, what
a concept. Someday, I might make my own clan and I would want to
make it an affiliate of the OFF because I dig you cats, and am
not looking to burn any bridges, but there are a ton of things I
would do different. Well my dinner is ready so I'm out. Comment,
kick me out, whatever, I'll still play tanks and I'll keep my
friends list as is because I fucking can, end this thread and go
play. Have a fantastic day people.
>
--- End Quote ---
I couldnt have said it better. Discussion over!!!
#Post#: 7544--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: Nahwasntme
Date: August 24, 2014, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A couple of thoughts. I remember one being stopped in a corridor
in an old job, this girl said to me "but it's not the same old
company it used to be", she missed the smaller more intimate
place. My answer was "it has not been the same old company for 2
years"
And that's just it, organisation grew, they change. People don't
want rules but without some sort of structure at least it cannot
grow in any organised fashion.
I remember the threads about setting up the clan I didnt join
but I got a feel for it. How many joined at the start. And how
many of those are left? What percentage of the clan do they make
up now. Maybe the clan has to evolve and change to meet the
wants of it present membership. Personally i liked the original
concept and that's why when I decided to join a clan I joined
this one, but think there has to be some form of structure.
I listed in one of the other threads about a guild I was in,
that was drama, couples split , families not speaking, in the
end I formed a guild with just one other person, it was the only
way to be in a group and keep everyone happy .
As an aside
It is possible to write a thread saying how angry you are
without inserting 10 fucks into it. We are nearly all adults
and should have that skill. No I am not offended , I spent 10
years on warships, I have heard them all. I just think it makes
the post more of a rant and less of a statement,
#Post#: 7548--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: oxidative stres
Date: August 24, 2014, 7:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Being one of the original members and officers, I think that I
can bring a little perspective in on this thread.....
This clan/ group has evolved and grown over time. Is it the
same as it was back in December/ January????? No. Was the
intention/ objective of the clan the same??? In most ways, yes.
This group was formed to bring together older gamers....you have
heard it all before... Did we originally start out with a whole
set of "rules" no, but when a group is small then there is less
of a need for that. As we grew, there were a couple of issues/
people that needed to be dealt with- team killing and abusive
language. Out of that the Admins and Mods ( that is what we
were at that time) felt that there needed to be some form of
code of conduct. One was developed and those 2 individuals were
asked to leave.
We started to grow more and we faced many of the questions we
face now:
Reconciling the growing nature of the clan and the social vs.
competative aspect of the members. To help with this the group
decided to start to look at forming companies, which were tied
in to the type if gaming you preferred. This is when the
"Administration" side of things grew. Greeters were added to
help new members link up with older members. Some other
structure was put in place to help with clan business. A number
of things happened and a group of OFFers split and formed IHM.
They had a different view on what they wanted out of a clan
(size/ nature/ structure) and they started their own. I have no
problem with that and still regularly platoon with many of them.
I am unsure who Cheesie was talking with? Organizations
change.....Some form of structure must be put in place.....The
people who wanted a small focused clan left. To say that former
members know what this was really all about is frankly...bull.
These were the ones that left when the " social " clan got too
big and was not what they really wanted.....NOT....they left
because things changed from the early intent. They wanted to
change what the original intent was--- open to all. Again, that
is their right and I have no problem with it. They left instead
of turning the drama dial to 11.
Yes the staff have a board where we can discuss things. What
the heck is wrong with that? Many of the things that are
presented to the group, like the membership freeze, goes through
revisions before it us put to the group. Yes we have officers...
So do all clans. Cheesie, are you going to do the work? We
volunteer our free time to help this organization. Do you want
to run it as a Communist Collective?
We are in the process of putting several things to a membership
vote.... Membership policy...member rights and conduct
policy.....more staff elections to include the now/ soon to be
Sr members.
If some feel I am not shooting straight with people, well, I am
sorry. I have a pretty solid track record here and am one of
the few, current or even former OFFers, that have been here to
help with guiding this clan since the very beginning....with the
exception of Coffee/ Godfather/ and Robert.
Small organizations can get away with "seat of the pants"....
Larger organizations need some sort of structure and rules...not
overbearing rules, but some nonetheless.
This organization is not different in its original intent, those
that left, left because they didn't want to be in a large
inclusive organization.
#Post#: 7549--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: faethor47
Date: August 24, 2014, 7:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That clarifies it for me. Thank you for shedding some light on
what's going on.
#Post#: 7553--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: cheesieburrito
Date: August 24, 2014, 7:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I was asked by a Bod Member to clarify my general statement that
the BoD have misrepresented what was going on. I stand
corrected, MOST of the members have been stand up and
completely honest and factual.
Oxi, I appreciate and understand rules, sadly many of us
forget our manners when we get wound up tanking, but I also
appreciate being dealt with in an honest and fair manner, as do
the rest of the membership. The board member that violated the
rules was not dealt with in any form, if they were it was not
publicized.
I understand the membership doesn't need to be bothered with
housekeeping issues. but when I hear of back room conversations
that lead to long time members leaving by choice or force it
bothers me.
So really unfair things were done to some long time clan
members.......Whether I agree or like them is irrelevant.
I did not seek out the folk for conversation, but it came up
and when the facts/other side varied too much from what was told
here, something is a miss.
I don't expect this to be popular, but it does need said.
#Post#: 7554--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: Godfather 1965
Date: August 24, 2014, 8:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just an addition to what Ox has stated. As we were getting
bigger we were also in direct contact with Wargaming. The first
incident we had happened around the same time as these
discussions were taking place with Wargaming. We thought it
imperative that we form some rules to keep our noses clean with
Wargaming at that time. I was not directly involved with the
talks and to this day do not know what the talks were about but
I had sense enough to know that it was probably something good.
The absolute bottom line is this......Play the game "GAME" and
have fun. Meet new people socialize and play either
competitively or casually (your choice). I still have not had
any issues with anyone that I have ran with or spoken to in or
out of this game. It's not that tough folks.
Take Care
:palm:
#Post#: 7556--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: Turkey Son
Date: August 24, 2014, 8:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have been here since the very beginning, and although I do not
get to platoon much because my wife loses her mind when I am
miked up, I have tried to contribute through this forum.
I can say that I do not remember even hearing of any drama
before Cheesie Burrito joined the clan. And I certainly
remember a time that everyone seemed to be having fun as opposed
to being in angst over a game clan…I mean do we have proof of
age before joining this clan?
We all use the word “drama,” seems to have a lot of meanings,
but I know what a “drama queen” is. It is a person that is
always in the middle of the conflict…right or wrong…about them
or nothing to do with them….but always there.
Cheesie. you are always talking about how “the problem is
becoming clearer,” what fucking problem. You cry the minute
someone votes down your post, why do you care? I think all your
crying has made it into a game amongst a silent group that is so
tired of your negativity and condescension.
Well, I am not going to be silent about it, since you are so
vocal and cannot just be a brick and mortar in the wall but must
be the peacock sitting atop it.
This clan does not inhibit anyone from having fun in the game
does it? How could it except that there is something terribly
wrong with a person's perception of things? What rules are
making your life so terrible? Why don’t you start your own
clan, or would you rather run a clan and hire people to do all
the tough work while you bark out orders and rebuke failure.….is
that what you see OFF as?
I have run teams in the real world my whole life, from 10 to
1,000, and there are always drama queens. They are always short
on solutions, high on control, and can go off like a hand
grenade at any moment. They always like to nurture a little
group to follow them and then they attempt to steer the ship or
at least shoot at the rudder.
To them, “the problem” will never be solved and there is no
solution that does not have their name in it.
The tell tale sign of a drama queen is always right there, right
out of the mouth, the making of mountains from nothing, or to
quote Cheesie, “this clan is in deep trouble.”
Give me a break…This drama would be cancelled before the pilot
made it to the screen, well unless it was on the WB. Can we get
back to talking about World of Tanks?
#Post#: 7558--------------------------------------------------
Re: All Bullshit a side.......what the founders, the real
founders actually wanted
DIR By: bluebanditjim
Date: August 24, 2014, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Organizations need structure and an essential part of that
structure is a Chain of Command. Chain of command has to be
respected. Staff and admins need to be able to do their job. My
commanders in the US Army would not have tolerated jumping the
CoC. Disagreements or concerns were always handled through
procedures. A growing organization is going to have growing
pains. Leadership is a tough job. As General Patton said, "Lead
me, follow me, or get the hell out of the way." It all boils
down to a general idea of respect. Not the kind of respect which
is followed up with statements like "I am going to do what I
want to do," but respect independent of our own views and with
consideration for other's views. Being expected to just tolerate
someone's bad behavior, bad manners, or tasteless jokes violates
the idea of respect. To the credit of many OFFers they would
rather just look the other way in deference to tranquility than
say something about bad behavior. That is how nice a group we
have. They will simply and quietly find others to game with and
maybe that is the way it has to be. I have a motto hanging in my
classroom which reads, "I have the right to learn, but I don't
have the right to interfere with other's learning." It could be
adapted to our situation, "I have the right to game, but I don't
have the right to interfere with other's gaming." Drive on.
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