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#Post#: 205--------------------------------------------------
Camp upgrade strategy
By: Faynyx Darkwynge Date: December 23, 2013, 7:40 pm
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So, regarding what we should upgrade and when and how far...
As noted above (eta: well, in the HQ thread), several of the
leading alliances follow the strategy of attacking from low
level or non-existent camps. The VP gain for attacks totally
favours this strategy, and the difficulty of defending camps is
also discouraging many from building since it's not clear how
much use the hourly VP gain is.
But then, for that strategy to work, you have to do lots of
attacks. I've been meaning to do a quick tally of camp levels
and alliance sizes, but haven't gotten around it thanks to the
overly lively start of the phase. I might leave beating up PoW
to you guys and start doing some exploring.
We have the VP charts and some of the hourly VP gains in the
other thread.
But to make use of those, we have to know how efficiently we can
keep a camp undamaged and how many attacks/hour we tend to do.
If we want to go for the most aids we should do shitloads of
them. So perhaps it wouldn't hurt to get decent VP for that.
We should also figure out when the hourly VP increase is applied
- if we can pin that down, then perhaps we can come up with a
way to organise repairs at the right times, but I think that
will be very difficult.
We will probably have to spend tons of silver on repairs if we
want to take advantage of the hourly VP, that's also something
to take into account. How much silver does everyone have? I'm
pretty much broke. I'll have to re-allocate some SS to
adventuring and even that will only mean that I'm not completely
pennyless.
I think those are the main things to consider, but there might
be some I'm forgetting about. Sorry if it's a bit incoherent, it
only reflects my confusion :p
There. Try to make sense of all that. I'll go to sleep now.
#Post#: 250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Faynyx Darkwynge Date: December 26, 2013, 2:59 am
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Camp levels for the top several alliances in the Reach (got the
info via bartering from GC, so I have only the levels). Will try
to keep up-to-date. Might expand into other regions as well, if
requested. Generally, happy to 'spy' on any alliance at any
location this way (in case we don't want to, or can't
'officially' spy on them) if requested.
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmCA_G36hc71dG1NdUI5MDVaNmwtMHFROUxSOWZTLUE&usp=sharing
#Post#: 257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Jon The Devout Date: December 26, 2013, 10:23 am
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sweet thanks
#Post#: 274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Jon The Devout Date: December 27, 2013, 2:39 pm
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So whats next for these camps
#Post#: 294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: I Want That One Date: December 29, 2013, 12:17 pm
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MAKING A CASE FOR SOME LOW LEVEL CAMPS
1. The Maths
Currently our highest level camp at Mander (lvl 10) is giving us
an hourly VP gain of 5292VP/hr. Compare that against the VP we
gain from our low lvl camp at OR engaging TBWB's lvl 16 camp
(lvl difference = 9 ), which yield 171VP per successful
engagement -
The hourly VP gain would be equivalent to around 31 successful
Aids which takes around 45 minutes (for those of us who have
filled our skills speed up talents, that is).
3 hrs worth of hourly VP gain = 15, 876
3hrs worth of engaging TBWB = just under 4 hrs worth of hourly
vp gain in terms of time spent
and that is assuming we only reach the minimum of 35 successful
actions to match the hourly gain. As we all know, our combined
forces is way more than 31.
Increase OR to lvl 8 and the VP we gain per action is 153 (each
lvl difference increment appears to add around 12% of previous
VP gained through engaging camps although I'm beginning to think
the progression might be exponential and not linear), 18 VP less
per action, which means a potential loss of 558VP we could have
gained with 31 actions. In 3hrs, we lose nearly 4 times that.
Again, this is assuming our combined effort is only 31 actions.
So instead of gaining more, we actually do end up with less than
what we could have gained.
[Edit] Adjusted numbers since TBWB just leveled up to level 16
this morning[/Edit]
The same maths can be applied to OT, level 7, highest OT camp
in the Reach- WS at 13
We would lose more VP if we upgrade. The idea of the hourly VP
gain advantage is seductive but it is a false economy.
---
2. The case study
Look at #1 G14Fs and their camps. Why do they maintain level 5
for their OT camp and how do they manage to stay on top of the
leaderboard when WS has more high level camps than them? Where
do they get their extra VP from if their camp level is so low at
OT?
The clue is in the maths. The 8 level difference between their
OT camp and WS's OT camp would net then 153VP per successful
action.
It wont surprise me G14F's actions are mainly carried out in OT,
hence WS's OT camp being constantly damaged. I'm sure if we look
at our own camp action tab we would see more G14F engagement
there than our other camps.
SO WHAT? SHOULD WE KEEP OUR CAMPS LOW LEVEL FOREVER?
I understand many of us like to craft and contribute. I think a
good compromise strategy wise is to keep the low level camps as
is until just before the last week. Then do a last minute surge
of camp upgrades. Which means we still can go ahead and craft
for upgrades, but just hold off on dumping them till the last
week. This would call for a) discipline on our part not to dump
our stuff in camps whenever we feel like, and b) targeted
crafting i.e. craft as if we are doing upgrades level by level.
Megga's spreadsheet masterpiece will be crucial for this to be
achieved.
[Edit] Illi asked why leave till the last week and my reasons
are -
1) because we may well be under heavy attacks then as everyone
makes a last surge to the top, and the boost in defense and
attacks from upgraded camps would come in handy
2) not everyone may have SS to spare but still would want to
contribute and crafting is the easiest way for us all
3) to let our brethren who may wish to reincarnate before phase
end to unload their resources which may otherwise go to
waste[/Edit]
So thiese are my 2 cents worth. Would love to hear everyone's
feedback.
#Post#: 301--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Faynyx Darkwynge Date: December 30, 2013, 5:08 am
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Actually, pure maths, calculating with aids/barters only, seem
to be slightly in favour of upgrading, see spreadsheet below. It
seems we'd need to average 100-150 successful aids/barters per
hour to lose as much from the attack VP as gain from the camp
one. Hostilities (which are more than likely to happen) are a
whole another matter , though - likely reducing hourly VP due to
camp damage, whereas the attack VP should be significantly
higher.
VP calculation spreadsheet - very much in progress, only done
Aid/Barter/Bribe so far (ETA: now added Fight). It took long to
figure out the formula as much as I have, and it's still a bit
off, I blame Nod's data for that. It's just rounding issues
though, so it shouldn't be too far off. The rest of the tables
should be easier now that I know how to get started...
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmCA_G36hc71dDhaRS12bEpwamIyLW1UX001Q2piX2c&usp=sharing
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmCA_G36hc71dDhaRS12bEpwamIyLW1UX001Q2piX2c&usp=sharing
Spreadsheet with camp levels - not entirely up to date, but
working on it...
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmCA_G36hc71dG1NdUI5MDVaNmwtMHFROUxSOWZTLUE&usp=sharing
HTML https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmCA_G36hc71dG1NdUI5MDVaNmwtMHFROUxSOWZTLUE&usp=sharing
#Post#: 303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Faynyx Darkwynge Date: December 30, 2013, 5:33 pm
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Now updatde the camp levels with the top few from Westerlands
and the Sullied in the Iron Islands (since they have no camps in
the Reach; zombies in garrison so prob fighting with someone
over there...), but couldn't get back into the game to properly
update the Reach.
#Post#: 304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Lady Merianne Date: December 30, 2013, 7:27 pm
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Faynyx, that camp levels spreadsheet is great - thanks!!! By
having a reference where we can easily see the other camps at a
glance, it will be so much easier to choose targets and
strategize. I had been wondering if TBWB was the best VP target
in the Reach, and I see that it is. If we wanted to simply farm
VP for the overall ranking, the North has some tempting targets.
If we want to get barters to upgrade the Mander, we can see
which camp would be best.
One question - are these alliances our allies, or do they also
include neutrals?
#Post#: 305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Freya Stormcloud Date: December 30, 2013, 11:08 pm
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I'm still pondering all this, which is hard during my work days,
but while 14 Flames is a good example for keeping one camp
lower, consider for a moment Wild Stark, which has 13/10/10
level camps, two of which are hostile, and they seem secure in
the number two spot despite having limited higher camp targets.
We've certainly held back on upgrading, as our original plan was
to get all 3 camps up to level 6 as fast as we could, but the
result seems to be that we stalled then dropped and now hover at
9/10.
I think we will still have a natural staggering of upgrades just
because of the time needed to top off each camp. I think we can
stop upgrading Oldtown and Ocean Rd once they go to level 8, and
probably Mander at 11.
#Post#: 306--------------------------------------------------
Re: Camp upgrade strategy
By: Lady Merianne Date: December 31, 2013, 12:05 am
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Freya, I noticed that you had contributed some materials to
Ocean Road. Does that, combined with your above post, meant that
you want to go ahead and upgrade OT and OR, or do you want us to
still hold back? I will continue to hold my stuff back until I
hear something definite.
If the decision ends up being to upgrade only one of the other
camps, my suggestion is Oldtown, because Ocean Road is yielding
the greatest number of VP when going against TBWB.
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