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#Post#: 1890--------------------------------------------------
My very controversial opinion on God
By: Vulcanatus Date: August 3, 2017, 2:40 pm
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[font=arial]I want to say this right now: What I say here will
almost certainly be very offensive to those who believe in and
follow the ways of any God.
Okay, so this is something that's been on my mind a while. I've
not really wanted to say it aloud, but it's been stewing in my
head for quite a bit and I feel the need to get this out here.
Is there really a God? Do we have proof? After all, science has
been able to discover the same things God has been said to
create.
I want to quote what made me think about this. I was never a
firm believer in a God, but this really made me wonder if there
is a true God out there.
"How much longer do you think your God plans to wait before
unleashing His fury? Just how many thousands of lives must I
take before He decides to strike me down? Open your eyes. God is
nothing more than a construct created by man to inspire fear and
promote order. If you wish to see me struck down for all these
atrocities, use your own hands, not God's."
While even if there is a God, this speech is what I want to talk
about. What good is "praying" going to do to all those thousands
of people that are dying by the second. If you want to do
something, get up and do it. Don't hide behind your so called
"God" and hope he finally breaks his silence and saves them. If
God is so powerful and just, why does he not help bring the
world to a better era instead of letting war, famine, drought,
disease, poverty, ect. ravage the planet? Why has he left us
alone for so long? Why did God create humans if they were only
going to stray so far from his "light?" Why does he allow people
to continue sinning as wildly as they do? Why is this world so
wrong and messed up?
Stop sitting around and "Praying" and get up and do it yourself
if you want it done.
Tell me with definitive proof that God exists and helps the
world. Show me I am wrong. Strike me down for being a
nonbeliever. I want to be impressed.
((Also I guess props to you if you know what I quoted. Have a
cookie or smthn))[/font]
#Post#: 1896--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Angel_614 Date: August 3, 2017, 3:26 pm
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Lily, there is no water-proof (full-proof) arguement to prove
God is real. HOWEVER, there is no full-proof arguement to prove
God ISN'T real. There is evidence for and against Him, and one
of the best topics relating to Him IS pain and suffering.
God doesn't call us to just sit around, He DOES call us to go
out and help others who are in pain and who suffer. Prayer for
us helps, by He also calls us to ACT, He doesn't want us to sit
around and twiddle our thumbs as the world burns.
However, God is not immune to pain. I don't know about others
definition of God, but Jesus, who claimed to be God (and who I
believe to be God as well), went through the worst pain and
suffering imagineable by dying on the cross.
He isn't immune to our pain and suffering, He entered into our
pain and suffering so that He could relate to us and show us
that He DOES care, and that He DOES have a bigger plan for all
of this.
In the end, no one who is going through pain wants a
Philosophical, sterile answer. They want something they can
believe. And in the end, Jesus is the answer, as He went through
suffering, He bore it.
He doesn't just sit around and watch us suffer, He helps! And I
know there are so many terrible things in this world, trust me,
I know, and I know it may not seem like He is doing anything,
but I have watched miracles happen, and I trust that He will
bring everything to good, as I have been through situations
which seemed utterly terrible, but were turned into something
amazing and beautiful because of Him.
I cannot give an airtight or sterile answer when it comes to
pain, as that would be selfish, but I do know the one who knows
our pain, has been through our pain, understands our pain, and
bears our pain with us.
If you want to know more, you can ask. (But I have to go and
coach soon for about 2 hours then I will come back.)
#Post#: 1897--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Angel_614 Date: August 3, 2017, 3:33 pm
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*runs back in*
OH RIGHT!
And if you wanted more information, I recommend a book called
"Case for Faith"! It goes into depth about the many debated
topics about faith, like how could a good God allow suffering,
or how could God send people to hell, and the like. I really
recommend it if you feel interested and wanted to learn more, as
I am not as smart as I sound and the book is way more
educational XD!
OKAY GOTTA GO NOW BYE!
#Post#: 1900--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Darksea14 Date: August 3, 2017, 4:15 pm
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I totally understand your reasons for not believing. Honestly, I
asked those questions myself this year after horrible things
happened. I wondered why God let horrible things happen. I
couldn't understand.
Imagine this, though. Your parent loves you. They have a plan
for you, which is to become educated and go to college so you
can support yourself and a family of your own in the future. But
if you didn't want that plan, and chose not to follow it, and
your parent forced you to stay in school and go to college, then
chose your lifelong career and spouse, then made you have
children. That isn't love. That's control. That's dictatorship.
Because your parent loves you, you are free to choose your own
life.
God and free will is like that. People choose what to do with
their lives because God allows them to, and because of free will
there is inevitably evil in this world.
If you have any more arguments or comments or anything, feel
free to comment back. I won't be offended or anything.
#Post#: 1905--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Vulcanatus Date: August 3, 2017, 5:09 pm
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[font=arial]While I do suppose I can't argue against what you
said Angel (I'm very unfamiliar with the Bible and the teachings
of God), there is something I want to mention.
Aside from the fact that is someone wanted something to believe
(especially if it was in God helping them), wouldn't that
technically be putting more philosophy on them? I'm just gonna
stop that train of thought tho because I can be very nitpicky on
things like that.
From my understanding, sinners go to Hell, correct? But at what
point is "too much" sin? Simply not believing? Because I've
ghosted a lot of [Angel's] preaching(Would that be the right
term for it?) threads, and understand that Christians are still
sinners the same as other people. Would Christians also go to
Hell for committing atrocities?
Also, what constitutes as a miracle and not coincidence or
natural happenings?
And @Darksea
That is probably the best description I've heard of it. But
couldn't He still technically interact with the "evil" people,
even if they don't believe, and help them down a better path?
And if He can't help nonbelievers (Unless they want help), where
does that leave people like me? People who do not believe and do
not want to?[/font]
#Post#: 1912--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Angel_614 Date: August 3, 2017, 5:57 pm
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Lily, these are all very good and interesting questions, and I
will do my best to answer them with what little knowledge I have
(so please bear with me XD!)
On that first part, I think I worded it incorrectly and stuff, I
just meant that they don't want someone to just be talking
detachedly to them when their loved one just died or something,
they want to know that someone understands the pain they are
going through, and such, and I can tell them that Jesus
understands and went through their pain, even if I didn't (does
that make sense?)
Sinners do go to hell, but God doesn't just throw people into
hell glaring at them. He actually warns us about hell with tears
and pleading, because He doesn't want us to go to hell, and He
offers a way out. He died the most terrible and painful death in
history, to offer us a way out, and into His beautiful, joyful,
fun, kingdom. About the too much sin thing, all of us sin more
than we realize. Even just ignoring God, not being mad at Him or
hating Him, but just ignoring Him is terrible. And I would know,
because I was the one who did that before I was saved. I ignored
Him. He helped me eventually see, but..I ignored Him. The one
who loves me continually and fully.
Sorry I rambled there. Yes, Christians still sin, but the
difference is that they have accepted the gift of grace from God
because of Jesus dying on the cross for them to cleanse them of
their sin. When someone becomes a Christian (I'm just speaking
from my experience), it changes them. They either stop sinning
in certain areas immediately, or start to struggle and fight
back against sin (usually both), and there are noticeable
changes seen in their life, changes for the better. Sure they
will still fail and sin again, but if they are trying, and you
can SEE the change and fruit in them, then that is usually a
good sign that they are saved.
As for the miracle and coincidence thing, I personally believe
that nothing is coincidence, however, I have not read the part
in the book I am currently reading, which has a part on
miracles, yet, but I will soon, so I will get back to you on
that when I have more information, as I don't want to make
uneducated guesses and shots in the dark.
I hope this answers atleast some of your questions, and I am so
sorry if I rambled XD!
And thank you for being so calm, kind, civil, and genuinely
curious, and I hope that I can be as kind and civil right back.
:)
#Post#: 1921--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Vulcanatus Date: August 3, 2017, 6:34 pm
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[font=arial]No, no, you didn't ramble. If anything I quite
enjoyed reading it and learning more about a different way of
thinking.
If anything I want to apologize, I realize my first post might
have come across as a bit aggressive. Thank you for being so
calm and explaining for me ^^ It's very interesting to learn
about.[/font]
#Post#: 1922--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Angel_614 Date: August 3, 2017, 6:37 pm
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I'm glad that it's interesting! And no, you didn't come off as
aggressive at all! I'm just glad that I was able to make it more
understandable XD!
#Post#: 1983--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Darksea14 Date: August 3, 2017, 9:48 pm
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So, about God helping people who do evil things...
So, I'm going to briefly talk about a saint here. St. Olga of
Kiev. She was royalty. Her husband was killed by a tribe of
people, and she killed all of them, in horrible ways. After she
did this, she repented. God helped her to turn away from revenge
and turn toward mercy. She listened to the voice that was God's
voice.
A lot of saints were like this. Living horrible lifestyles,
doing evil things. But they listened when God called them away
from that.
But again, it's all about free will. God calls everyone who does
horrible evils away from it, but not everyone listens. They
choose to shut him out, resulting in pain for everyone.
I can answer in more detail if you want, but right now I have to
go. I'll answer your other question tomorrow, as well.
Good night! :)
#Post#: 1987--------------------------------------------------
Re: My very controversial opinion on God
By: Vulcanatus Date: August 3, 2017, 11:04 pm
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[font=arial]Oh nonono, I understand that people who have done
bad before can still be saved. What I mean is people who
identify as Christian yet still commit horrible deeds. What
happens to those people? Because they are out there.[/font]
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