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#Post#: 2948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man Drowns during Baptism
DIR By: Rita
Date: April 14, 2026, 2:48 am
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--- Quote from: Dave link ---
>
> Rita in the early '70's there was a surge called 'Jesus only'
and saints got re-baptised into the name of 'Jesus only' verses
Father,Son and Holy Ghost which was the standard prayer. My
friend an ex Elim pastor, he and his wife went to Chard and went
through water baptism again.
> But as it is the same 'old man' dying under and the 'new man'
rising up how much relevance is the name but Paul still 'fessis
up that he still had to die daily. Maybe it's more of an
obedience action.
> And John the B't still saw his need concerning Jesus.
> The Jews have always had a form of water baptism for
purification.
>
> Water baptism is not the requirement for a paradise entry, a
heart belief in Him is all that is required.
> That's why Jesus said to the thief 'this day' to him.
>
> Water Baptism is an outward testimony of ones faith in Him.
>
--- End Quote ---
Dan and I were discussing this matter recently as he is not
baptised and it came up in our study. As he doesn’t belong to a
church fellowship, and would not be able to handle that kind of
social setting it raised all kinds of questions. I did jokingly
relay to him that in theory I could baptise him in the bath - it
doesn’t need to be by a minister. Not sure how practical it
would be though!
Another suggestion was to contact a local church, explain the
situation with his mental health issues and see if they would do
a baptism with just the pastors and leaders of the church.
We discussed the thief on the cross, but he in fact had no
choice in the matter. We do , and it does say ‘ believe and be
baptised ‘ on the other hand, Dan doesn’t not declare his faith
to people he comes into contact with…………so is that a public
declaration. I mean most of our own baptisms take place in a
church with other believers, so it’s not really public ( witness
to non believers ) I don’t know we ended up having just as many
questions about whether it was wrong or not to be baptised.
#Post#: 2949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man Drowns during Baptism
DIR By: KerryD
Date: April 14, 2026, 6:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rita link ---
>
> Dan and I were discussing this matter recently as he is not
baptised and it came up in our study. As he doesn’t belong to a
church fellowship, and would not be able to handle that kind of
social setting it raised all kinds of questions. I did jokingly
relay to him that in theory I could baptise him in the bath - it
doesn’t need to be by a minister. Not sure how practical it
would be though!
> Another suggestion was to contact a local church, explain the
situation with his mental health issues and see if they would do
a baptism with just the pastors and leaders of the church.
> We discussed the thief on the cross, but he in fact had no
choice in the matter. We do , and it does say ‘ believe and be
baptised ‘ on the other hand, Dan doesn’t not declare his faith
to people he comes into contact with…………so is that a public
declaration. I mean most of our own baptisms take place in a
church with other believers, so it’s not really public ( witness
to non believers ) I don’t know we ended up having just as many
questions about whether it was wrong or not to be baptised.
>
--- End Quote ---
True that a minister doesn't need to do it; but "moving water"
is needed. Churches which baptise people get their water from a
moving stream or river as odd as that sounds. Moving water has
oxygen mixed in with it from it going over rocks and the like.
Thus there is both air and water involved. This represents for
me the realms of the Heaven of Water and the Heaven of Air. The
baptism by fire comes later.
#Post#: 2950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man Drowns during Baptism
DIR By: KerryD
Date: April 14, 2026, 6:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Dave link ---
>
> Rita in the early '70's there was a surge called 'Jesus only'
and saints got re-baptised into the name of 'Jesus only' verses
Father,Son and Holy Ghost which was the standard prayer. My
friend an ex Elim pastor, he and his wife went to Chard and went
through water baptism again.
--- End Quote ---
I was baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Later I wish it had been "Jesus only" since that seems more
scriptural to me. Correct me if I err, but I think there is
only one time (Acts) when the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is
used. Other times, it is only Jesus. I see Jesus as the path to
salvation; and we cannot approach the Father without his help.
I'd say the Catholics invented the phrase involving the Trinity;
but I still did not believe I needed to baptised again. The
letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. My faith when baptised
was solid as was the minister's who baptised me. Why doubt it
then? Indeed I thank that minister even if he erred a little in
my book, since he brought me into the Body of Christ.
--- Quote ---
> But as it is the same 'old man' dying under and the 'new man'
rising up how much relevance is the name but Paul still 'fessis
up that he still had to die daily. Maybe it's more of an
obedience action.
> And John the B't still saw his need concerning Jesus.
> The Jews have always had a form of water baptism for
purification.
>
> Water baptism is not the requirement for a paradise entry, a
heart belief in Him is all that is required.
> That's why Jesus said to the thief 'this day' to him.
>
> Water Baptism is an outward testimony of ones faith in Him.
--- End Quote ---
It also shows the willingness to join the Community of
Saints, the Body of Christ. When physical baptism is impossible
as in the case of the thief, I have heard of people (sorry I
don't have examples here) receiving a spiritual baptism where
they felt water was being poured on them. The thief some say
was baptised in his own blood. I believe that. Blood has oxygen
too, so it's both air and water (as mentioned above to Rita.)
So all prior sins, of ignorance of course, were wiped clean and
Jesus told him they would meet in Paradise -- the realm of the
Heaven of Air -- not the Heaven of Fire. He had not been
baptised by Fire.
I would say Paul was talking on the level of Fire -- the
volitional plane.
#Post#: 2951--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man Drowns during Baptism
DIR By: Rita
Date: April 15, 2026, 2:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: KerryD link ---
>
> True that a minister doesn't need to do it; but "moving water"
is needed. Churches which baptise people get their water from a
moving stream or river as odd as that sounds. Moving water has
oxygen mixed in with it from it going over rocks and the like.
Thus there is both air and water involved. This represents for
me the realms of the Heaven of Water and the Heaven of Air. The
baptism by fire comes later.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not sure I agree Kerry as most of the churches over here use the
normal supply of water that you would use in your bath at home.
In biblical times it would have been different as moving water
was often all they had. I respect your views but just don’t
think it’s a universal one.
#Post#: 2952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man Drowns during Baptism
DIR By: KerryD
Date: April 15, 2026, 6:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rita link ---
>
> Not sure I agree Kerry as most of the churches over here use
the normal supply of water that you would use in your bath at
home. In biblical times it would have been different as moving
water was often all they had. I respect your views but just
don’t think it’s a universal one.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think early Christians preferred moving water but allowed
nonmoving if the moving wasn't available. Faith, of course, is
the important thing.
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