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#Post#: 2495--------------------------------------------------
Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 18, 2025, 2:06 pm
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Is a difference in the sexes being pointed out here?
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his
mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one
flesh.
I think women tend to be more loving than men. Most women love
their children automatically and want to care for them. I also
think almost any woman could be happy with almost any man if he
"cleaved" to her and did his best to make her happy. Some women
in unhappy marriages persist in doing their best trying to
"tame" the man. Men, generally speaking, tend to be more
independent and need to learn to love.
I tend to think too that if a woman commits adultery, it's
because she doesn't feel loved by her husband and is looking for
some affection. Men can commit adultery on a whim.
Thoughts?
#Post#: 2496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 18, 2025, 2:34 pm
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Most people think about the mistake Eve made; but I attribute
some blame to Adam too. I believe if he had "cleaved" to her
and made her feel loved -- if the two had become one -- she
would not have listened to the voice of the serpent. Where was
Adam when the serpent showed up? Was Eve alone? Hmmm.
#Post#: 2497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: Mike Waters Date: October 18, 2025, 2:42 pm
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[quote author=KerryD link=topic=82.msg2495#msg2495
date=1760814369]
Thoughts?
[/quote]
Goods thoughts spoiled by mine ... which is to point to Man's
obsession with 'Cleavages'.
#Post#: 2498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 18, 2025, 2:54 pm
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[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=82.msg2497#msg2497
date=1760816544]
Goods thoughts spoiled by mine ... which is to point to Man's
obsession with 'Cleavages'.
[/quote]That reminds me of something I can't explain too well.
Some women "blessed" in that department make me uncomfortable,
especially if they're married. Are they advertising what they
have, hoping to entice a man into making a pass? Other women
can be blessed in that department, but they don't make me
nervous since I am so confident their marriages are happy that
they're not interested in finding a partner for adultery. They
aren't looking for cheap thrills.
#Post#: 2499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 19, 2025, 1:43 am
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There seems to be a parallel in Revelation to this passage in
Genesis.
Man was made on Day Six. Was he/she divided on Day Six? I
think so; and I think Adam and Eve were meant to unite on the
Sabbath to become one. Some Jews believe it is very good for a
married couple to have intercourse on the Sabbath.
HTML https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/sex-on-shabbat/
Now let us jump forward to the end of the Sixth Day, figuring a
day is as a thousand years. What is happening right before the
Glorious Seventh Day or Era?
Revelation 17 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to
him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath
made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine
linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness
of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called
unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me,
These are the true sayings of God.
Why white? The wife of the Lamb is clad in the Divine Light as
Adam and Eve had been before they fell and felt shame at being
naked. The wife in Revelation is ready.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he
that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in
righteousness he doth judge and make war.
So we see Jesus leaving his heavenly home to meet the wife
waiting for him. This parallels Genesis nicely when it says the
man should leave his parents to cleave to his wife.
Revelation continues with the defeating of the beast and false
prophet; and finally an angel defeats the serpent.
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of
the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
The woman who had been persecuted by the dragon and hid in the
wilderness is then depicted as the Bride of Christ or the New
Jerusalem descending from Heaven.
21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with
me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's
wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high
mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,
#Post#: 2500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: Mike Waters Date: October 19, 2025, 3:14 am
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Many thanks for your 'Parallels' input, Kerry.
Please keep it up.
#Post#: 2501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: Rita Date: October 19, 2025, 5:27 am
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I decided to look already at ‘ Adam and Eve ‘
Firstly - cleaving and leaving your mother and father ‘
generally in ancient Israeli culture families all lived
together. In my Bible notes it states that the context here was
about priorities - in other words when a son marries the needs
of his wife should come before the needs of the parents. ( Prior
to marriage the needs of the parents would have been met first )
Secondly - We do not know when the snake put thoughts into Eves
head about the tree - in the ESV it follows that interaction
with ‘ so when ‘ ….this to my implies that it was later on at
another time. Temptation often comes first with a thought and
later an action, but not always immediately. Like most
temptations Eve only remembers the positive benefits ( it will
make ‘ one wise ‘ - how often is this the only thing we
consider.
Thirdly - Adam was with her at the time of giving into the
temptation and as she reached for the fruit never challenged her
( so he was equally tested with regards to his obedience to God
and the role he had been given with regards to being a husband )
I don’t believe that Eve was in need of anything other than
guidance to do the right thing by God
It also made me think that God didn’t have to make the tree of
knowledge of good and evil productive of fruit that would be
pleasing to the eye, he could have just made it a beautiful
tree. The fact that originally , after all the animals,
creatures were created, they were classed as good. So something
had shifted, the fact that the snake was considered more crafty
perhaps was evidence that ‘ Satan prowls around waiting ‘
observing all that was created it was the snake that he felt he
could use to entice.
However all of this happened because God allowed it to happen,
which meant there was purpose in it all. Up to this point there
was no evidence that Adam and Eve didn’t trust and obey, the
only way you prove trust is to test obedience.
#Post#: 2502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: Dave Date: October 19, 2025, 2:28 pm
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This is an interesting subject as it's recorded in Gen 2, it
seems it's Adam who quotes verse 24, odd scenario as neither had
a 'father or mother' cleave = to cling to, a strong affection
for; is he to cling to his wife until love blossoms. There was
no Tim LaHaye manuals for them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto 'THEM'; Be Fruitful, and
Multiply, and Replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have
dominion over---------. but no admonition to love each other and
they were not ashamed.
The question being did 'they fulfill' what God blessed them for
or look we for another?
As to the tree blame, was it just a ploy for the 'seed;' so was
it a no blame action to further, the plan and purpose of the
Lord? TBC.
#Post#: 2503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 19, 2025, 10:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=82.msg2502#msg2502
date=1760902134]
This is an interesting subject as it's recorded in Gen 2, it
seems it's Adam who quotes verse 24, odd scenario as neither had
a 'father or mother' cleave = to cling to, a strong affection
for; is he to cling to his wife until love blossoms. There was
no Tim LaHaye manuals for them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto 'THEM'; Be Fruitful, and
Multiply, and Replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have
dominion over---------. but no admonition to love each other and
they were not ashamed.
The question being did 'they fulfill' what God blessed them for
or look we for another?
As to the tree blame, was it just a ploy for the 'seed;' so was
it a no blame action to further, the plan and purpose of the
Lord? TBC.
[/quote]The scenario is very odd and difficult. What if Adam
hadn't joined Eve in eating of the forbidden fruit? Could he
have obeyed the commandment to be fruitful? I have been told
and believe Adam deliberately chose death so he could be with
Eve. I see Love in it. After all, they were in the image and
likeness of God, so wouldn't they have had a loving nature?
I see a parallel with the New Testament too where Jesus chose
death, knowing he would die but still leaving his Heavenly home
out of Love for those he had been sent to preach to --Israel --
to restore and redeem them so they could convert the Gentiles.
The difference is Jesus defeated the serpent after his future
"bride" had been bitten and poisoned. That leaves me wondering
if Adam could have "redeemed" Eve? I do not know.
#Post#: 2504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cleaving
By: KerryD Date: October 19, 2025, 10:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Rita link=topic=82.msg2501#msg2501
date=1760869638]
I decided to look already at ‘ Adam and Eve ‘
Firstly - cleaving and leaving your mother and father ‘
generally in ancient Israeli culture families all lived
together. In my Bible notes it states that the context here was
about priorities - in other words when a son marries the needs
of his wife should come before the needs of the parents. ( Prior
to marriage the needs of the parents would have been met first )
[/quote]Didn't they have separate tents?
[quote]Secondly - We do not know when the snake put thoughts
into Eves head about the tree - in the ESV it follows that
interaction with ‘ so when ‘ ….this to my implies that it was
later on at another time. Temptation often comes first with a
thought and later an action, but not always immediately. Like
most temptations Eve only remembers the positive benefits ( it
will make ‘ one wise ‘ - how often is this the only thing we
consider. [/quote]
Did she feel inferior to God? Did she want to be superior to
Adam? Did she lose faith in God? It seems to me she didn't
accept the fact that God is Love, so any commandments He gives
are given to benefit others.
[quote]Thirdly - Adam was with her at the time of giving into
the temptation and as she reached for the fruit never challenged
her ( so he was equally tested with regards to his obedience to
God and the role he had been given with regards to being a
husband ) [/quote]I don't know that Adam was present.
[quote]I don’t believe that Eve was in need of anything other
than guidance to do the right thing by God [/quote]
I think Eve needed Adam and Adam needed her since they were two
halves of one being, temporarily separated.
[quote]It also made me think that God didn’t have to make the
tree of knowledge of good and evil productive of fruit that
would be pleasing to the eye, he could have just made it a
beautiful tree. The fact that originally , after all the
animals, creatures were created, they were classed as good. So
something had shifted, the fact that the snake was considered
more crafty perhaps was evidence that ‘ Satan prowls around
waiting ‘ observing all that was created it was the snake that
he felt he could use to entice.
However all of this happened because God allowed it to happen,
which meant there was purpose in it all. Up to this point there
was no evidence that Adam and Eve didn’t trust and obey, the
only way you prove trust is to test obedience.
[/quote]There is an idea that Adam and Eve were meant to eat of
the forbidden fruit later. This idea says that the Tree of Life
and the Tree of the Knowledge were also meant to be one Tree.
After Adam and Eve were joined together and become one, they
were meant to eat of both trees at the same time. Eve would
pick fruit from one half of the tree and Adam from the other
half. Note the peculiar phrasing:
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of
every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt
not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou
shalt surely die.
It reminds me of salt, a sacred symbol, which is composed of two
poisons, sodium and chlorine. Each could kill us separately; but
when combined it is a useful thing our bodies need (although not
to excess).
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