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#Post#: 2473--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Dave Date: October 16, 2025, 3:44 pm
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Kerry I think we differ on what you and I see as being fulfilled
but so do a lot of others!!!!
Paul writes in Gal 3 "O foolish Galatians who hath "bewitched
you", that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus
Christ hath been evidently set forth, 'crucified' among you"
In verse 3-23 'But before faith came' we were kept under the
law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed'
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ
that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is
come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The question is who had bewitched the foolish Galatians?
If sin is dead, so is the law with it's judgements.
I spent many years grappling "sin" and trying to fulfill the law
in my life, and the mount sermon was a mount Everest to me.
The yoke is mean't to be easy and the burden light, red letter
stuff.
In the Iron curtain era my friend smuggled bibles through
Romania for distribution.
I think that a spirited filled christian can quite easily live
without a bible, "man doesn't live by bread/bible alone but by
every word that comes from the mouth of God" Matt 4-4.
I'm finding the Lord in a lot more things than a bible these
days.
Maybe from the book of Acts my perceptions changed on what the
walk of faith is.
#Post#: 2474--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Mike Waters Date: October 16, 2025, 5:46 pm
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"Join the Club" Dave.
But don't overlook that it's a club of 'Learners', with each of
us being at different stages in the learning graph.
You sound very much like you're at the stage that I passed
through a while back (until it dawned on me that it makes little
sense to "quote the Bible" in order to "belittle the Bible").
I now step sidewise a little and no long think that "man should
not live by bread (the bible if you wish) ALONE (note the
emphasis) but should ALSO live by every word spoken by the mouth
of God, knowing that what you read in the Bible becomes "the
word spoken by the mouth of God" when it gets implanted into the
"Fleshy tablets of one's Heart".
And where do I get those words from? ... From out of the Bible
of course (in the process of them being implanted into my
heart).
Nevertheless I still incline to the view that the Bible was
"written by Men inspired to varying degrees" as distinct from it
being "written by God using men who were inspired way beyond
their realm of knowledge".
Otherwise I would have to believe that the vast majority of
mankind will spend eternity in 'Hellfire' (written IMO by men
who most certainly were not "inspired by God" in respect of some
of the words that got recorded).
#Post#: 2475--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: KerryD Date: October 16, 2025, 7:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=80.msg2473#msg2473
date=1760647499]
Kerry I think we differ on what you and I see as being fulfilled
but so do a lot of others!!!!
Paul writes in Gal 3 "O foolish Galatians who hath "bewitched
you", that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus
Christ hath been evidently set forth, 'crucified' among you"
In verse 3-23 'But before faith came' we were kept under the
law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed'
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ
that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is
come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The question is who had bewitched the foolish Galatians?
If sin is dead, so is the law with it's judgements.
I spent many years grappling "sin" and trying to fulfill the law
in my life, and the mount sermon was a mount Everest to me.
The yoke is mean't to be easy and the burden light, red letter
stuff.
In the Iron curtain era my friend smuggled bibles through
Romania for distribution.
I think that a spirited filled christian can quite easily live
without a bible, "man doesn't live by bread/bible alone but by
every word that comes from the mouth of God" Matt 4-4.
I'm finding the Lord in a lot more things than a bible these
days.
Maybe from the book of Acts my perceptions changed on what the
walk of faith is.
[/quote]The book of Galatians has several problems.
What is wrong with adultery if we are no longer under the Law?
Paul ends that book by condemning that along with other things.
He has his own list of sins, updated for the Christian era?
He also says there is neither male nor female in Christ; but
elsewhere he says women should not have spiritual authority over
men. (Clearly the Church of England doesn't take that too
seriously about women in spiritual authority.)
Then there is the philosophical question. If the people at
Galatia had been baptized correctly and received the Holy Spirit
and the Truth, how could they backslide so much? Had they
committed the unpardonable sin by rejecting the Holy Spirit, or
hadn't they had it after being baptized?
#Post#: 2476--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: KerryD Date: October 16, 2025, 7:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=80.msg2474#msg2474
date=1760654804]
Nevertheless I still incline to the view that the Bible was
"written by Men inspired to varying degrees" as distinct from it
being "written by God using men who were inspired way beyond
their realm of knowledge".
Otherwise I would have to believe that the vast majority of
mankind will spend eternity in 'Hellfire' (written IMO by men
who most certainly were not "inspired by God" in respect of some
of the words that got recorded).
[/quote]
That is the Jewish view. They have the five books of Moses in
"The Law" and several books in "The Prophets" and the rest are
in "The Writings." Where some books get classified may surprise
us. I and II Kings are considered prophetic while ! and II
Chronicles are writings.
Galatians conflicts with Acts in some places. Which book is
probably right? The person who believes every book in the New
Testament is equally inspired is in a hard place.
[quote]Otherwise I would have to believe that the vast majority
of mankind will spend eternity in 'Hellfire' (written IMO by men
who most certainly were not "inspired by God" in respect of some
of the words that got recorded).[/quote]
I think most Christians who believe in eternity in hellfire are
heavily influenced by their belief that we each live only once.
If they believed in reincarnation, some of the Scriptures would
make more sense.
#Post#: 2477--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Dave Date: October 16, 2025, 8:51 pm
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Kerry, “ what is wrong with adultery “ in this dispensation
nothing it seems, as the Christian list continues to grow sadly.
As we are an epistle read and known it should be off our to do
list.
The martyred English saints must be shaking their heads at what
state the Church of England finds itself in today.
In our church in the U K our leadership was male and female but
when anyone felt to minister and were in the anointing there is
no male or female only Christ.
As to the Galatian church, were they any different than the
Church at Corinth concerning church conduct.
I have no problem with what is written as the Bible but it only
becomes relevant as the letter word becomes the spirit word
imho.
#Post#: 2478--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: KerryD Date: October 16, 2025, 9:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=80.msg2477#msg2477
date=1760665886]
Kerry, “ what is wrong with adultery “ in this dispensation
nothing it seems, as the Christian list continues to grow sadly.
As we are an epistle read and known it should be off our to do
list.[/quote]
So why does Paul say there is?
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which
are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath,
strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of
the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time
past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the
kingdom of God.
The martyred English saints must be shaking their heads at what
state the Church of England finds itself in today.
In our church in the U K our leadership was male and female but
when anyone felt to minister and were in the anointing there is
no male or female only Christ.
So which is it? No male or female as Paul says in Galatians, or
do they have different roles as he wrote to Timothy?
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all
subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority
over the man, but to be in silence.
So can two men or two women be married? My guess the Anglicans
think so because male and female don't matter. They might be
right at that!
[quote]As to the Galatian church, were they any different than
the Church at Corinth concerning church conduct.
I have no problem with what is written as the Bible but it only
becomes relevant as the letter word becomes the spirit word
imho.
[/quote]Ever notice how Paul's churches seem so full of
problems? I think I agree with Peter:
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is
salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to
the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these
things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which
they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the
other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
I find Paul very hard to understand. His style is very vague at
times, like here. Peter made me afraid to base a belief on
something only Paul wrote. I need to find a "second witness"
before I think I got the right take on what Paul wrote.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of
one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to
hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but
patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
Surely the current head of the Anglican Church is not the
"husband of one wife." But what does Paul mean by "one wife"?
Is he forbidding polygamy? Is he saying a widow who remarries
can't be a bishop? Or is he saying a bishop must be married? I
think the Catholic Church might do well to require their clergy
to be married since so many of them can't resist temptation like
sex with other men and women or even with children? But don't
ask me since I'm not sure what Paul meant by "one wife."
#Post#: 2479--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Mike Waters Date: October 17, 2025, 4:04 am
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I am grateful and respectful of Kerry's latest thoughts in this
thread.
What are your thoughts Kerry on 'Hebrews' and who was the
writer?
#Post#: 2483--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Helen Date: October 17, 2025, 6:43 am
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Mike said - Nevertheless I still incline to the view that the
Bible was "written by Men inspired to varying degrees" as
distinct from it being "written by God using men who were
inspired way beyond their realm of knowledge".
Otherwise I would have to believe that the vast majority of
mankind will spend eternity in 'Hellfire' (written IMO by men
who most certainly were not "inspired by God" in respect of some
of the words that got recorded).
I really like that Mike. I don’t think that in all my years
I’ve read or head that said before!
Amen!
I’ve many decades thrown out the belief of he’ll fire as an
enduring punishment.
My brother Neil got me to read some ND experiences and Heaven .
They were accounts from every walk of life , many different
countries .
Out of almost 3,000 interviews the only one who mentioned going
to Hell was an atheist when he died.
As he started to descend , he mentioned how cold he felt ( not
even he mentioned he’ll fire )
He said demons dragged him , he got colder and cold and it was
black as ink.
The bit him and hurt him , he screamed HELP.
a voice that he thought was his own said “ Pray”
Being an s thirst he didn’t know any prayers .
So he started singing a few lines of ‘The battle hymn of the
republic’ …he stopped descending .
The only other thing he could think of was the ‘Star spangled
banner ‘ …
It seemed enough !
He started going slowly upward .
Then he said the name of God .
Jesus took his hand …and lots more etc etc…
I found it interesting that all of the unbelievers only ever
mention -dark, cold, and descending .
No mention of hell as such from any of them.
Forgive me if I’ve shared this before.
#Post#: 2485--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Rita Date: October 17, 2025, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of
one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to
hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but
patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
I decided to look at these verses and reached the conclusion
that this is about attitudes and being respectful. The Husband
of one wife , to me , kind of means ‘ faithful ‘ and ‘Loyal ‘ .
We often look at phrases and comments through the eyes of our
English and not through the eyes of the writers wanting to
convey a message. So culturally it would have conveyed that a
leader was meant to be someone who was publicly and privately
beyond reproach, someone with a good reputation within the home
and within the society.
I am not sure the passage is meant to address other issues.
#Post#: 2486--------------------------------------------------
Re: An Eye for an Eye
By: Rita Date: October 17, 2025, 7:13 am
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Galatian’s ‘ what had gone wrong ‘
The theme of the letter was about the new covenant and the new
reality that we are justified by faith alone and not by
obedience to the ceremonial laws ( not sure I believe that this
is the same as the Ten Commandments , or the sermon on the mount
as they are important to how we should act ect - Jesus being the
perfect example )
The ceremonial laws enabled the Jewish people to come into the
presence of God, well Jesus fulfilled those laws for us and
through faith we can equally come into Gods presence without
having to go through those laws )
The Galatian’s themselves were being pressurised by a group of
Jews to be circumcised, they wanted the gentile Christian to
form in line a Judaism sect. They wanted to lead, stay onside of
the Jewish leaders and avoid persecution. 4:10 also shows that
they were also observing certain ceremonial laws with regards to
special days / months ect
In the ESV it uses the word ‘ Guardian ‘ , not ‘ Schoolmaster ‘
The law was our guardian until Christ came ( 3:24 )
After this we became ‘ sons - it was a relationship change - I
guess you could say we have been adopted from the law looking
after us, to Christ guiding us himself xx
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