URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       
  HTML https://unitedindiversity.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Our Latest Spiritual Posts
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 2341--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Kerry Date: September 27, 2025, 3:55 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Dave link=topic=77.msg2340#msg2340
       date=1759001447]
       As one who has been indoctrinated with the belief of 'For as in
       Adam all died even so in Christ shall all  be made alive.'  I'll
       have to leave you to your re-incarnation indoctrinations lol.
       [/quote]I looked up the passage; and I have some questions for
       you.
       1 Corinthians  15:21 For since by man came death, by man came
       also the resurrection of the dead.
       22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made
       alive.
       23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
       afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
       If "all" will be made alive, what is the point of being a
       Christian?  Why would it matter?
       Secondly, what does Paul mean by "all"?  First he says all will
       be made alive; then he says they which are Christ's will be made
       alive at his coming.
       Did Enoch die?  Did Moses?  Did Elijah?
       Oh wait, I have a third question for you about this passage.
       Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of
       many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second
       time without sin unto salvation.
       Does this mean that "dead"  believers are in their graves now
       awaiting his "second coming" sometime in the future?  How does
       that square with:
       Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing
       here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of
       man coming in his kingdom.
       John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never
       die. Believest thou this?
       What do you make of John?  Did he see the kingdom and the return
       of Jesus?  I remind you he wrote he heard a voice that sounded
       like a trumpet and then was caught up into Heaven.  Jesus said
       John would "tarry" until he came.  According to what John wrote
       for us in Revelation, that was true.
       John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom
       Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at
       supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
       21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this
       man do?
       22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come,
       what is that to thee? follow thou me.
       23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that
       disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall
       not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that
       to thee?
       24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and
       wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
       I also ask you what Jesus was doing for thousands of years
       before before born to Mary.  How do you think he was suffering?
       Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
       foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
       hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
       #Post#: 2342--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Kerry Date: September 27, 2025, 4:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=77.msg2338#msg2338
       date=1758995019]
       First response by me would be to ask whether reincarnation
       happens for everybody or is it by Divine selective intervention?
       Second would be "do the reincarnated ever get re-reincarnated"?
       Does that help you to "Know where to get started"?
       [/quote]I think so.  Why does the Bible portray some of the dead
       as being in Paradise and others in Gehenna?  Still others are
       described as sleeping.
       #Post#: 2343--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Dave Date: September 27, 2025, 7:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Many questions Kerry but I guarantee you have all your own
       answers.
       My question is will Judas get a 'well done thou good and
       faithful servant'???
       I seem to be missing your point on the relevance of the
       questions as concerning re-incarnation.
       As it doesn't come under the 'it is written' banner and
       definitely not listed in Paul's gifts to the body of Christ,
       I'll still leave it with the wiser than I crowd, 'have at 'er'
       as we Brits would say.
       #Post#: 2344--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Kerry Date: September 28, 2025, 5:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Dave link=topic=77.msg2343#msg2343
       date=1759021075]
       Many questions Kerry but I guarantee you have all your own
       answers.[/quote]I am hoping that people can see when their
       beliefs contradict Scripture. I am hoping they don't close their
       eyes and stick with their previous opinions.  I am hoping that
       people want to be corrected by the Scriptures.
       [quote]My question is will Judas get a 'well done thou good and
       faithful servant'???[/quote]
       Obviously not. Do not think, however, that Jesus erred by
       picking him as a disciple.  Jesus was right to pick him; and
       Judas was and is able to do better.  God does not accept
       inferiority from us if He knows we can do better.  Judas needs
       to do some things again, and the next time to do them right. He
       did fine before:
       Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns,
       preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
       [quote]I seem to be missing your point on the relevance of the
       questions as concerning re-incarnation.
       As it doesn't come under the 'it is written' banner and
       definitely not listed in Paul's gifts to the body of Christ,
       I'll still leave it with the wiser than I crowd, 'have at 'er'
       as we Brits would say.
       [/quote]My questions to you were not  asking you to explain
       anything about reincarnation.  My questions to you were asking
       how you interpret those Scriptures in your own belief-system.  I
       got no answers.
       Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the
       honour of kings is to search out a matter.
       As for the gifts of God, we need an explanation for why some
       people have them.  Some people can perform "signs and wonders"
       which lead many astray. How do some people obtain these gifts?
       Most people don't have an answer to that question. How is it
       that Judas could heal people, but then went astray?
       #Post#: 2345--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Mike Waters Date: September 28, 2025, 5:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Kerry link=topic=77.msg2342#msg2342
       date=1759007026]
       Why does the Bible portray some of the dead as being in Paradise
       and others in Gehenna?  Still others are described as sleeping.
       [/quote]
       Because it was complied, in the main by 'Scribes' who in my
       opinion (constrained as ever by the "darkened glass") were
       deeply indoctrinated by their fallible (imo again) Jewish
       upbringing.
       Plus multiple attempts to retranslate it at the very beginning
       of the 'Age of Enlightenment', when few were able to as much as
       sign their name by more than a 'cross'.
       Plus the powerful dictate of a King whose only interest was to
       ensure that any translation did not alienate his freedom to move
       from one wife to another by whatever means he chose.
       Unfortunately the 'Reformation' came far too soon to happen by
       educated consent, and led only to a very partial split from
       capital 'C' Catholicism.
       #Post#: 2347--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Judas
       By: Kerry Date: September 28, 2025, 6:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=77.msg2345#msg2345
       date=1759056901]
       Because it was complied, in the main by 'Scribes' who in my
       opinion (constrained as ever by the "darkened glass") were
       deeply indoctrinated by their fallible (imo again) Jewish
       upbringing.
       Plus multiple attempts to retranslate it at the very beginning
       of the 'Age of Enlightenment', when few were able to as much as
       sign their name by more than a 'cross'.
       Plus the powerful dictate of a King whose only interest was to
       ensure that any translation did not alienate his freedom to move
       from one wife to another by whatever means he chose.
       Unfortunately the 'Reformation' came far too soon to happen by
       educated consent, and led only to a very partial split from
       capital 'C' Catholicism.
       [/quote]
       I have to confess to being influenced by Jewish thought. I see
       both Paradise and Gehenna as serving to bring people to
       perfection.  I am not one of those who see the fire of Gehenna
       as meant to punish.  I confess to being influenced by a vision I
       had of my Mother after she died.  People can think me crazy; but
       one night, I found myself there with her. She was lying down
       with the flames all around her.  I said I would ask Jesus if he
       would remove her.  She told me not to do that. She was not in
       pain.  The flames were the flames of Love, burning away
       impurities.  They do not hurt unless you resist them and want to
       hang onto the imperfections.  If you want them burnt away, you
       experience the flames as Love.  I suppose Catholics would call
       what I saw "Purgatory."
       If I can see God's Love in a belief, I tend to think it's true.
       If I can't see His Love in it, I tend to doubt it.  I admit I
       could make mistakes; but that tends to be the standard I follow.
       For example,  I don't see any love in punishing people
       eternally, so I find that hard to believe.   That belief seems
       to be an invention by theologians to terrorize people into
       obeying them blindly; and it seems to me to portray God as
       unloving, making it harder for people to love Him.
       *****************************************************
   DIR Next Page