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#Post#: 2341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Kerry
Date: September 27, 2025, 3:55 pm
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--- Quote from: Dave link ---
>
> As one who has been indoctrinated with the belief of 'For as
in Adam all died even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'
I'll have to leave you to your re-incarnation indoctrinations
lol.
>
--- End Quote ---
I looked up the passage; and I have some questions for you.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came
also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made
alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
If "all" will be made alive, what is the point of being a
Christian? Why would it matter?
Secondly, what does Paul mean by "all"? First he says all will
be made alive; then he says they which are Christ's will be made
alive at his coming.
Did Enoch die? Did Moses? Did Elijah?
Oh wait, I have a third question for you about this passage.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of
many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second
time without sin unto salvation.
Does this mean that "dead" believers are in their graves now
awaiting his "second coming" sometime in the future? How does
that square with:
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing
here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of
man coming in his kingdom.
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never
die. Believest thou this?
What do you make of John? Did he see the kingdom and the return
of Jesus? I remind you he wrote he heard a voice that sounded
like a trumpet and then was caught up into Heaven. Jesus said
John would "tarry" until he came. According to what John wrote
for us in Revelation, that was true.
John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom
Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at
supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this
man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come,
what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that
disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall
not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that
to thee?
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and
wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
I also ask you what Jesus was doing for thousands of years
before before born to Mary. How do you think he was suffering?
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
#Post#: 2342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Kerry
Date: September 27, 2025, 4:03 pm
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--- Quote from: Mike Waters link ---
>
> First response by me would be to ask whether reincarnation
happens for everybody or is it by Divine selective intervention?
> Second would be "do the reincarnated ever get
re-reincarnated"?
>
> Does that help you to "Know where to get started"?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think so. Why does the Bible portray some of the dead as
being in Paradise and others in Gehenna? Still others are
described as sleeping.
#Post#: 2343--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Dave
Date: September 27, 2025, 7:57 pm
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Many questions Kerry but I guarantee you have all your own
answers.
My question is will Judas get a 'well done thou good and
faithful servant'???
I seem to be missing your point on the relevance of the
questions as concerning re-incarnation.
As it doesn't come under the 'it is written' banner and
definitely not listed in Paul's gifts to the body of Christ,
I'll still leave it with the wiser than I crowd, 'have at 'er'
as we Brits would say.
#Post#: 2344--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Kerry
Date: September 28, 2025, 5:16 am
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--- Quote from: Dave link ---
>
> Many questions Kerry but I guarantee you have all your own
answers.
--- End Quote ---
I am hoping that people can see when their beliefs contradict
Scripture. I am hoping they don't close their eyes and stick
with their previous opinions. I am hoping that people want to
be corrected by the Scriptures.
--- Quote ---
> My question is will Judas get a 'well done thou good and
faithful servant'???
--- End Quote ---
Obviously not. Do not think, however, that Jesus erred by
picking him as a disciple. Jesus was right to pick him; and
Judas was and is able to do better. God does not accept
inferiority from us if He knows we can do better. Judas needs
to do some things again, and the next time to do them right. He
did fine before:
Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns,
preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
--- Quote ---
> I seem to be missing your point on the relevance of the
questions as concerning re-incarnation.
>
> As it doesn't come under the 'it is written' banner and
definitely not listed in Paul's gifts to the body of Christ,
I'll still leave it with the wiser than I crowd, 'have at 'er'
as we Brits would say.
>
--- End Quote ---
My questions to you were not asking you to explain anything
about reincarnation. My questions to you were asking how you
interpret those Scriptures in your own belief-system. I got no
answers.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the
honour of kings is to search out a matter.
As for the gifts of God, we need an explanation for why some
people have them. Some people can perform "signs and wonders"
which lead many astray. How do some people obtain these gifts?
Most people don't have an answer to that question. How is it
that Judas could heal people, but then went astray?
#Post#: 2345--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Mike Waters
Date: September 28, 2025, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> Why does the Bible portray some of the dead as being in
Paradise and others in Gehenna? Still others are described as
sleeping.
>
--- End Quote ---
Because it was complied, in the main by 'Scribes' who in my
opinion (constrained as ever by the "darkened glass") were
deeply indoctrinated by their fallible (imo again) Jewish
upbringing.
Plus multiple attempts to retranslate it at the very beginning
of the 'Age of Enlightenment', when few were able to as much as
sign their name by more than a 'cross'.
Plus the powerful dictate of a King whose only interest was to
ensure that any translation did not alienate his freedom to move
from one wife to another by whatever means he chose.
Unfortunately the 'Reformation' came far too soon to happen by
educated consent, and led only to a very partial split from
capital 'C' Catholicism.
#Post#: 2347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Judas
DIR By: Kerry
Date: September 28, 2025, 6:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mike Waters link ---
>
>
> Because it was complied, in the main by 'Scribes' who in my
opinion (constrained as ever by the "darkened glass") were
deeply indoctrinated by their fallible (imo again) Jewish
upbringing.
> Plus multiple attempts to retranslate it at the very beginning
of the 'Age of Enlightenment', when few were able to as much as
sign their name by more than a 'cross'.
> Plus the powerful dictate of a King whose only interest was to
ensure that any translation did not alienate his freedom to move
from one wife to another by whatever means he chose.
>
> Unfortunately the 'Reformation' came far too soon to happen by
educated consent, and led only to a very partial split from
capital 'C' Catholicism.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to confess to being influenced by Jewish thought. I see
both Paradise and Gehenna as serving to bring people to
perfection. I am not one of those who see the fire of Gehenna
as meant to punish. I confess to being influenced by a vision I
had of my Mother after she died. People can think me crazy; but
one night, I found myself there with her. She was lying down
with the flames all around her. I said I would ask Jesus if he
would remove her. She told me not to do that. She was not in
pain. The flames were the flames of Love, burning away
impurities. They do not hurt unless you resist them and want to
hang onto the imperfections. If you want them burnt away, you
experience the flames as Love. I suppose Catholics would call
what I saw "Purgatory."
If I can see God's Love in a belief, I tend to think it's true.
If I can't see His Love in it, I tend to doubt it. I admit I
could make mistakes; but that tends to be the standard I follow.
For example, I don't see any love in punishing people
eternally, so I find that hard to believe. That belief seems
to be an invention by theologians to terrorize people into
obeying them blindly; and it seems to me to portray God as
unloving, making it harder for people to love Him.
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