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#Post#: 2119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Mike Waters Date: July 19, 2025, 4:08 am
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=65.msg2118#msg2118
date=1752894505]
But this Daughter pushes through in spite of the crush, how does
one measure faith is a good question.
[/quote]
"Seek and ye shall find"
No question of might, or might not, find.
And that applies to each and everyone that seeks
But who is to say that 'each and every one' will find one and
the same aspect of the final 'treasure'?
I have often felt that one of the problems of Christian forums
is the failure to embrace the vast, and unfathomable, magnitude
of what it is that makes God to really be GOD.
We are so preoccupied with 'dissecting' various aspects of our
faith in God that we don't realise that in doing so we are
virtually downgrading God to our own 'levels'.
I've often quoted that, whereas man is said to have been
"created in the image of God", the reality is that it has always
been man who has created God in man's own image. (And maybe
always will do so until the veil of the darkened glass is
finally removed and we at last see Christ face to face).
My faith is that it will be then (and only then), that we shall
finally know, even as we have always been known.
I don't half rattle on.
#Post#: 2121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Helen Date: July 19, 2025, 8:38 am
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[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=65.msg2119#msg2119
date=1752916107]
"Seek and ye shall find"
No question of might, or might not, find.
And that applies to each and everyone that seeks
But who is to say that 'each and every one' will find one and
the same aspect of the final 'treasure'?
I have often felt that one of the problems of Christian forums
is the failure to embrace the vast, and unfathomable, magnitude
of what it is that makes God to really be GOD.
We are so preoccupied with 'dissecting' various aspects of our
faith in God that we don't realise that in doing so we are
virtually downgrading God to our own 'levels'.
I've often quoted that, whereas man is said to have been
"created in the image of God", the reality is that it has always
been man who has created God in man's own image. (And maybe
always will do so until the veil of the darkened glass is
finally removed and we at last see Christ face to face).
My faith is that it will be then (and only then), that we shall
finally know, even as we have always been known.
I don't half rattle on.
[/quote]
And an excellent ‘rattle’ it was Mike ! Wise words …x
#Post#: 2124--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Dave Date: July 19, 2025, 12:13 pm
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Look at that Mike and there was I thinking that 'forums' were
for the dissecting of faith to bring us to the full measure of
Christ.'For without faith it is impossible' and you know the
rest.
One has to wonder how the first Adam 'saw' God, did he see God
perfectly, being made in the image and likeness, and how did
that work for him!!!!!!
And what would have been God's plan if A had not worked, now
that would have been worth dissecting,imho.
Probably just more rattle from me.
#Post#: 2128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Kerry Date: July 19, 2025, 11:32 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=65.msg2124#msg2124
date=1752945183]
Look at that Mike and there was I thinking that 'forums' were
for the dissecting of faith to bring us to the full measure of
Christ.'For without faith it is impossible' and you know the
rest.
One has to wonder how the first Adam 'saw' God, did he see God
perfectly, being made in the image and likeness, and how did
that work for him!!!!!!
And what would have been God's plan if A had not worked, now
that would have been worth dissecting,imho.
Probably just more rattle from me.
[/quote]Did Adam "see" God? Or did they talk to each other?
My impression is that Adam and the Voice of God spoke to each
other. Here's an odd line.
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in
the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid
themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees
of the garden.
The way it's written, we should not believe God was walking in
the Garden. It was the Voice of Jehovah. Maybe we could also
call it the Word? I lean to that interpretation since John
wrote:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing
made that was made.
God Himself was creator; but the "Word" "made" everything which
was made.
I also believe if God Himself had "seen" Adam and Eve after the
fall, they would have been consumed and reduced to nothingness
since no impure thing can exist if He gazes its way. Thus I see
the Word (or Jesus) acting as intercessor in the situation,
giving them "garments."
#Post#: 2129--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Kerry Date: July 19, 2025, 11:41 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=65.msg2118#msg2118
date=1752894505]
And he said unto her " Daughter, THY faith hath made thee whole;
go in peace, and be whole of thy plague"
This lady is the only one Jesus calls 'daughter'; her 'faith'
had taken her the whole way until she is unable to go further,
why is it we wait for the end to draw nigh, then we turn to the
Lord?
I think her journey to Jesus had had the thread of faith in what
she had tried.
The virtue was not in the garment but she knew the power was in
Jesus and just which hem did she touch?
She in a sense meant nothing to Him but He calls her Daughter.
It would appear in this incident that it was a combination of
her 'faith' and the resident 'power' of the Lord.
Jesus told the 12 that they would receive power after the Holy
Ghost came upon them, but they had been empowered at the call to
come and follow Him.
And they marvelled that the signs that they did, but they were
very often rebuked on the 'faith' bit.
But this Daughter pushes through in spite of the crush, how does
one measure faith is a good question.
[/quote]Was his garment considered to be a part of him? I think
it must have been since the passage says both that she touched
his garment and that he said she touched him.
I also read it to mean she came under his spiritual authority.
While she didn't touch his feet, she reached for the bottom of
his garment. I think him calling her daughter also shows that.
Note that she appears to have been on her own. She had
exhausted the money she had. Apparently she did not have a
husband or parents to help her.
#Post#: 2131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Dave Date: July 20, 2025, 10:45 am
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Here is one to muse Kerry, I read years ago that the 'daughter'
touched the hem that was around the neck of the garment of Jesus
and she falls to the ground only on being found out rather than
scrabbling around on the ground and she had to have had access
to money to have continued her long search for a cure.
Of the many mysteries in scripture to me is the creation story
but it is never listed as one them but to me it is the biggest.
Two grown adults with given abilities to name stuff, fully
mature fruit to eat of, both blessed of God and commissioned to
" Be fruitful and multiply, and given dominion to 'replenish'
the earth, and 'subdue' IT. Did they ever fulfill that
commission, they certainly came up short on subduing their own
earth!!!
The angels prophesied "Peace on Earth, goodwill to all men" we
could do with a bit of fulfillment of that about now!!!!!!!!
#Post#: 2132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Kerry Date: July 20, 2025, 11:38 am
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=65.msg2131#msg2131
date=1753026359]
Here is one to muse Kerry, I read years ago that the 'daughter'
touched the hem that was around the neck of the garment of Jesus
and she falls to the ground only on being found out rather than
scrabbling around on the ground and she had to have had access
to money to have continued her long search for a cure. [/quote]
I checked this out. There may be a problem with our
translations. It probably means "tassels" or "fringes" since
they were commanded by Moses.
Numbers 15:38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them
that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments
throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe
of the borders a ribband of blue:
39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon
it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them;
and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes,
after which ye use to go a whoring:
The Greek word in question shows up in a description of the
Pharisees too.
HTML https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2899/kjv/tr/0-1/
Mathew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men:
they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of
their garments,
Luke says that poor woman had spent all her money on physicians.
#Post#: 2136--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Mike Waters Date: July 21, 2025, 4:02 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=65.msg2128#msg2128
date=1752985935]
I see the Word (or Jesus) acting as intercessor in the
situation, giving them "garments."
[/quote]
Dave, Please be patient with me whilst, once again, I latch onto
something that you post when it unleashes stuff which pervades
my inbuilt overview of the "great mystery of Godliness".
Remember how I once used to revel in "One off" as a username?
(it still continues to plague my 'faith')
Why "One off"?
I suppose it's because I have never yet met another Christian
believer who had shared a journey such as mine.
Beginning at a time when I was completely committed to
everything taught by the little chapel where my faith in God had
suddenly burst into its fullness.
Only to find, when I returned from two year's 'National
Service', that the entire Chapel had abandoned its fundamental
belief in the "Sermon on the mount" principles of absolute
'Deference' to one another, and had unbelievably split into
three 'warring' factions over the question of who should succeed
its elderly Pastor.
I was so shattered to find myself attempting fellowship in such
a negation of all that they had taught me, that I withdrew
completely in order to re-examine what 'The Faith once delivered
to the saints" really ought to be.
It was many years before I turned to Christian Forums in my
search, and many more years whilst I fought and lost many
battles to create 'forum' situations where deference to
differing versions of 'faith' was an overriding principle.
Several decades later I tried to 'do the rounds' in search of
renewed 'Church' fellowship, only to find that so much had
changed, that I have still not found anything where I can truly
bow my head and get lost as I try to "Worship, worship His
Majesty, Jesus who died, now glorified, KING OF ALL KINGS"
In fact, for some time now, it is in "NOW GLORIFIED" that I have
at last found resolution.
The essence of which, for me, lies in the total change of the
power and significance of the communicative work of The Holy
Spirit in "Leading us into all truth".
No longer do we rely solely on Tablets of Stone, nor solely on
words penned on Papyrus. but on words implanted on the "fleshy
tablets of our hearts" (albeit that they might originate from
Tablets of Stone. words written on papyrus, words spoken by
others, words read in books, or even in daily newspapers, etc,
etc.
AT last I find resolution in all forms of Christian controversy.
In the words of my poem "Christ is a diamond that's perfectly
cut, with multiple facets so bright .... Not one has the right
to say to another 'the light that you see isn't true true', the
facet he sees was cut for his purpose, yours was cut spec'ly for
you"
I don't half rattle on.
#Post#: 2137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Garments of Jesus
By: Kerry Date: July 21, 2025, 4:54 am
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Here's more to think about. Only a few translations get it
right that Genesis 3:21 says "skin" and not "skins."
HTML https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis%203%3A21
YLT Genesis 3:21 And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to
his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them.
NASB And the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his
wife, and clothed them.
I do not believe God killed animals to make clothes for Adam
and Eve; and the text doesn't say He did. I believe they were
originally like the angels, with garments of light. The "white
garments" the Bible promises to the saints who overcome are the
same garments of light which Adam and Eve had. I believe when
they sinned, their lights went dark. They lost their garments
and could be considered naked spiritually, so at that point they
were put into the physical bodies we currently have.
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