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#Post#: 1999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Dave Date: June 30, 2025, 1:52 pm
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No 5.
Your spiritual life isn't a journey 'toward holiness', you are
already holy in Christ.
It's a journey of discovering and living from what's already
true about you and living from heaven.
Paul writes more about 'in Christ' than any other Apostle, now
that would make a good thread in itself, in what is available to
those 'in Christ'
HTML https://www.instagram.com/resoundworshipuk/reel/DIbQ8toCxNH/
I like this!!!
#Post#: 2005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Dave Date: June 30, 2025, 6:24 pm
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Kerry I'd be interested in your take on the instituting of the
original Abrahamic tithe with Melchizedec, as Jesus is described
as a priest forever 'in' the order of Melchizedec. the tithe in
law and what churches do now.
If you can keep it in Gems more power to you, for me more
threads means more chance of missing stuff ;) ;) ;)
Must be an age thing!!!!!!!
#Post#: 2007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 30, 2025, 9:09 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg2005#msg2005
date=1751325888]
Kerry I'd be interested in your take on the instituting of the
original Abrahamic tithe with Melchizedec, as Jesus is described
as a priest forever 'in' the order of Melchizedec. the tithe in
law and what churches do now.
If you can keep it in Gems more power to you, for me more
threads means more chance of missing stuff ;) ;) ;)
Must be an age thing!!!!!!!
[/quote]
Hebrews is one book I find questionable as did many early Church
fathers. But the passage in Genesis may be enough to explain
it. God helped Abraham acquire various things, so he paid a
tithe. Tithes were never made on labor. If men worked to make
money without God's help, they didn't pay tithes on their wages.
When Israel entered the Land of Promise, then they started
paying tithes on the increase of their herds and seed. God had
blessed them so the tithe was given as gratitude. Some of the
tithes went to support the priests who didn't have their own
land; some went to help the poor; and some went to have feasts
of rejoicing every so often. No one was getting rich off the
labor of others. The only way money entered into tithing was if
transporting the produce and animals would be a problem because
of the long distance; first they sold the food for money and
then they were to convert the money back into food to have a
happy feast with.
This kind of tithing makes me sense to me; the kind some
churches have doesn't.
#Post#: 2008--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Rita Date: July 1, 2025, 3:57 am
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I found it quite interesting doing a little study on tithing,
the conclusions I reached from read the Old Testament was that
it was about Provision for the priests and those in need.
I agree with Kerry that it was about what was produced on the
land and live stock. ( Leviticus 27:30 )
Numbers 18:21 “ I give to the levites all the tithes in Israel,
as their inheritance , in return for the work they do while
serving. ( a provision for the future )
In cultural context they were not ‘ farmers ‘ so they couldn’t
produce for themselves because they served as priests.
However in 18:26 we see that they also had to tithe a tenth ,
which in turn went to Aaron.
Which in turn ( deauteronomy 14 :28 ) we see that they were
requested to ‘ store a years produce every 3 years ‘ once again
provision for the future.
They were also advised to save the tithes for ‘ the place he (
God ) will choose as a dwelling but if it gets too heavy because
the chosen place is too far away, then exchange it for silver
but still save it. ( Deaut 14: 24-25 )
Then in Deaut 26:12 ( those things saved from the third year )
this should be given to the levites ( priests ) foreigners ,
fatherless and widows - all people who would have been in need
within the culture of Israel.
Tithing is not mention again until Nehemiah , after the return
from exile. 12:44 relays that men were appointed to be in charge
of the storehouses.
However moving to Malachi we see that something had changed-
they grew resentful of having to do some things
3:8 “ how are we robbing you ‘( in response to God saying “ yet
you rob me )
3:10 Bring me the whole tithe into the storehouse ( obviously
they were not giving a tenth )
Do this and your crops will survive ( reaps blessings )
I couldn’t find the word ‘ Tithe ‘ in the New Testament, so I
looked up giving and sharing
Once again in acts we know that the whole community came
together and shared with those in need
In Matthew 6:4 we are challenged to give for the right reasons
and not for the praise of men.
Colossians 3:7 Whatever you do, deed or word , do in the name of
Jesus
Acts 5 “ wasn’t the money at your disposal “ no one was forcing
Ananias to give all the money. Personal choice and conviction.
2 Corinthians 9:7 You should give what you have decided in your
heart to give.
I don’t know if I agree totally that a church should demand
giving a tenth , but giving is definitely not wrong. However how
that money is used is quite clearly for those in need and to
provide for the future. It is also okay if it supports people
serving the Lord who have no income of their own.
Where I definitely don’t agree is the mega churches who use the
income to buy yachts, expensive boats and planes. Also those
wearing expensive jewellery from the pulpit while expecting the
church members to give, give , give…………..
#Post#: 2009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: July 1, 2025, 5:18 am
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Matthew 25 with the sheep and goats is also interesting when
Jesus judges the sheep.
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but
the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye
blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from
the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and
ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I
was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw
we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee
drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and
clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say
unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of
these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
I won't go into what the goats are told. Earlier in that
chapter however, the slothful servant's judgment is interesting.
People want to say Jesus did it all, Jesus paid it all, that we
don't need to do anything except give churches money and say
what they tell us us say. Can the message of Christianity really
being wanting something for nothing from Jesus?
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful
servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather
where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the
exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine
own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him
which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall
have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away
even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness:
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
What is interesting about that is that by Jewish law, if someone
paid a debt and the debtor was his servant for a period of time,
everything the servant did that make money or increased the
wealth of his owner belonged to the owner. Thus when we feel
Jesus has blessed up, we need to spread the message of Love to
others, and that is by doing kind deeds for others.
Jesus expects us to give him back more than he gave us; and he
made it possible for us to do that too. It's not always about
money either.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father
is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
I'd much rather give time and money to people who really need
help than to a minister so he can get a bigger plane or mansion.
#Post#: 2021--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Dave Date: July 2, 2025, 2:21 pm
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I've always put the recorded time of Jesus under the old
covenant, and that when the earthquake happened, a new day
dawned and the old passed away for the new foundation.
Kerry a bit of an interest that the sheep and the goats are
already
decided on by unconsciously making the choices they did, a bit
different from us making the choice to follow on to know the
Lord.
I read once concerning 'the in the order of Melchcizedec' that
the first priest was the first Adam and continued from father to
son until the last Adam Jesus fulfilled the order to which there
is now no end. What thinkest thou Kerry?
A nice one Rita, good stuff.
#Post#: 2025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: July 2, 2025, 8:50 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg2021#msg2021
date=1751484081]
I've always put the recorded time of Jesus under the old
covenant, and that when the earthquake happened, a new day
dawned and the old passed away for the new foundation.[/quote]
This makes God a God with changing intentions. What you call
the "old covenant" did not change the eternal values of Heaven.
It was given to Israel as a substitute for Oral Word which they
didn't want to hear. Thus they wear the items meant to write
the oral words on their hearts. They know they're apt to
misunderstand the Written Law of Moses. Jews continue to
struggle with this, and I'd say most Gentiles do too.
For example, what does this mean?
Deuteronomy 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass
together.
What about the ox and ass now? I'd say doing that is somewhat
foolish; likewise, I'd hope you don't put brakes on your car
that are stronger on one side than the other. If you brake,
your car will go sidewise. If we understand that, there is a
spiritual principle meant to be understood. I see what Paul
wrote as an example of that law.
2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with
unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with
unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Now that refers to a believer who is not already "yoked" with an
unbeliever. A married couple of one believer and one
non-believer is another matter. It will have its difficulties,
to be sure. Paul is advising us not to enter into relationships
with that kind of difficulty; but if someone is already "yoked"
to a non-believer, he or she should honor his word having faith
the spouse can benefit from it.
Why would the law of Moses be seen as imperfect? How we
interpret it may be wrong; but that doesn't mean it's imperfect.
Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
Was Jesus "sinning" by healing on the Sabbath? Goodness, no!
The Sabbath was meant for people to enter into the "rest" of
God; and Jesus was helping them do just that. How people
interpreted that law was simply in error.
Kerry a bit of an interest that the sheep and the goats are
already
decided on by unconsciously making the choices they did, a bit
different from us making the choice to follow on to know the
Lord.
You sound as if you believe in predestination. I believe the
goats could change their ways and become sheep. Note too that
they are together in front of their shepherd. The sheep are not
rewarded for being sheep, and the goats aren't condemned for
being goats. They are judged by their deeds.
[quote]I read once concerning 'the in the order of Melchcizedec'
that the first priest was the first Adam and continued from
father to son until the last Adam Jesus fulfilled the order to
which there is now no end. What thinkest thou Kerry?
[/quote]
I am reluctant to discuss my views on that; but I will since you
asked. I believe Melchizedek was an earlier appearance of
Jesus. They are the same "person" to me.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw
it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years
old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am.
Abraham also saw the Holy City above what we call today
Jerusalem. Below was Salem or "peace"; and Melchizedek was
"king of peace." Today we call Jesus "Prince of Peace." Hebrews
is a mixed bag to me, and I suspect someone added verses to it;
but this makes sense to me.
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations,
whose builder and maker is God.
What many seem to doubt is that Jesus was active from the
establishment of Eden. People think he did nothing for 4000
years. Yet it is written; and again I quote a verse from Hebrews
which makes sense to me:
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world
hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
I can see Jesus suffering in many ways in the books of the Old
Testament; but after Calvary, his suffering on this earth was
over. It was "finished" as he said. What happened on the road to
Emmaus contains only a hint of what he did before being born in
Bethlehem; and the people he told didn't recognize at first.
I'd say the Old Testament contains many things with concealed
references to Jesus which we today don't see him in.
Luke 24:5 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to
believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter
into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded
unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and
he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is
toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to
tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took
bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he
vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within
us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to
us the scriptures?
No wine is mentioned there, but the bread is. It may be a
stretch for some, but I see this as an offering after the order
of Melchizedek.
#Post#: 2026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Mike Waters Date: July 3, 2025, 12:42 am
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Kerry, The 'Old Testament' is, with a few exceptions, virtually
unread and disregarded by me.
But, near as 'damn it', you bring it all 'to life' and essential
relevance.
Maybe you really are the reincarnation of John the Baptist
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