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#Post#: 1948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 27, 2025, 3:42 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg1945#msg1945
date=1750981949]
Kerry one pasture of His sheep still labour even now under a
'law' mentality, and a lot of modern pastors use the same 'law'
mentality with a sunday 'get right' altar call.
It took a 'love' relationship for me to see His Righteousness,
as a sheep I heard His voice but still laboured under a works
mentality but would never have confessed it to be , my self
righteousness.
Sometimes the 'blind' need a second touch to see better.
[/quote]
Sorry I can't follow your logic here. Perhaps I should start my
own thread about how "works" fit into things.
As a child, I saw that kind of altar call. I felt sorry for
some of the people involved since my impression was they were
looking for something more but hadn't found it yet. Going
forward as a backslider didn't seem to work that well either.
Many people don't seem to have the same definitions for words
that I do -- and I don't think some churches define "repent" the
way I do.
#Post#: 1950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Mike Waters Date: June 27, 2025, 5:35 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=60.msg1948#msg1948
date=1751056978]
Sorry I can't follow your logic here. Perhaps I should start my
own thread about how "works" fit into things.
Many people don't seem to have the same definitions for words
that I do -- and I don't think some churches define "repent" the
way I do.
[/quote]
I would welcome a spell of 'clarification' in the forum.
And boy wouldn't I just love wading into works versus faith, the
reward alongside the gift, the first and the second
resurrection, the millenial reign, the 'Lake of Fire' versus the
second death, etc.
#Post#: 1951--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Dave Date: June 27, 2025, 5:47 pm
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For my money Kerry natural Israel is still as His sheep under an
old covenant, most churches are tithe keepers, they see that as
a law which puts them back under the law which Israel could
never keep.
Be my guest and start your own thread on how works fit into
things, for my money Paul does a pretty good job on law and
works righteousness.
Logic = reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict
principles of validity. The unbelief to faith.
#Post#: 1952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 27, 2025, 5:53 pm
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[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=60.msg1950#msg1950
date=1751063742]
I would welcome a spell of 'clarification' in the forum.
And boy wouldn't I just love wading into works versus faith, the
reward alongside the gift, the first and the second
resurrection, the millenial reign, the 'Lake of Fire' versus the
second death, etc.
[/quote]They may all tie together, Mike. I hope to get the time
to start a thread soon. I'll have to try to collect my thoughts
first however.
#Post#: 1953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Mike Waters Date: June 27, 2025, 5:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg1947#msg1947
date=1751047600]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Li-BMP8go
No 3.
Mike "Darkly" is translated as "In a riddle, an enigma"
Interestingly Corinth was known as a mirror making place.
[/quote]
Dave, that translation fits the context about as comfortably as
my hands fit my socks.
I much prefer Gnorts' following Bible notes
"The darkened glass phrase is from the Apostle Paul's first
letter to the Corinthians, where he discusses the limitations of
human knowledge compared to divine knowledge.
It highlights that our current understanding of spiritual or
even earthly matters is partial and not fully clear.
The passage suggests that one day, our understanding will be
complete and clear, "face to face," implying a time when the
limitations of our current perception will be removed.
The phrase has become widely used to describe any situation
where knowledge or understanding is limited or obscured by
incomplete information or flawed perspective.
It is not meant literally to mean seeing through a dirty glass,
but rather refers to the obscured nature of our current
perception and understanding."
#Post#: 1955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Helen Date: June 27, 2025, 6:05 pm
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[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=60.msg1950#msg1950
date=1751063742]
I would welcome a spell of 'clarification' in the forum.
And boy wouldn't I just love wading into works versus faith, the
reward alongside the gift, the first and the second
resurrection, the millenial reign, the 'Lake of Fire' versus the
second death, etc.
[/quote]
Hi Mike .
I think you already know my view on this as I read the word.
Salvation is a done deal. The precious blood is more than enough
and accepted as such by the Father.
In that we can rest . Father looks at us through His Son , and
sees us white as snow. It is finished.
Our calling and election must, as Paul said ,be made sure .
This is the gold, silver and precious stones V Wood , hay and
stubble.
Our works are indeed ‘ tested by Fire ‘,
Our salvation is sure , we are on solid ground. Our calling and
election ( position) has yet to be weighed.
I see no conflict between Faith and works …maybe I just
oversimplify it . :)
As Paul said “ I so run …” he reached for everything God had
for him….
God has the best in store yet to come for each of us. He is
cheering us on…so we hear “ good and faithful servant , enter
in..”
#Post#: 1956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 27, 2025, 6:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg1951#msg1951
date=1751064458]
For my money Kerry natural Israel is still as His sheep under an
old covenant, most churches are tithe keepers, they see that as
a law which puts them back under the law which Israel could
never keep.
Be my guest and start your own thread on how works fit into
things, for my money Paul does a pretty good job on law and
works righteousness.
Logic = reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict
principles of validity. The unbelief to faith.
[/quote]
If Israel is still His sheep, why do they not come when the Good
Shepherd calls?
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there
shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
To unravel who or what Israel is, we would need to explain why
John tells us there were 144,000 in the original Israel but then
there were 600,000 in Israel when they left Egypt.
People seem to have problems with the Law of Moses. I have no
such problem. The mystery for many Christians may be why Jesus
said:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth
pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.
Does Paul contradict Jesus? Not in my book!
#Post#: 1957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Mike Waters Date: June 27, 2025, 6:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg1951#msg1951
date=1751064458]
Be my guest and start your own thread on how works fit into
things, for my money Paul does a pretty good job on law and
works righteousness.
[/quote]
Now there's another of my 'hot chestnuts'.
This is getting just like the 'good old days'
The Bible is not intended to be a 'concise text book' it is a
menu (not a complete 'meal')
The Holy Spirit is God's waiter, in that he sorts out different
meals to suite different needs.
Some of the ingredients may be common in different meals but the
nutritional purpose of each meal is chosen to suit the needs of
each diner.
The menu is enormous if you take every written word in the
bible.
But that is understandable in the context of the enormous number
of diners at today's table.
And then consider the need to have suited all the diners
throughout the centuries!!
Little wonder that the menu (the bible) is such an enormous
compendium.
And yet it still gets treated as a complete meal rather than as
a menu.
God's menus from what Dave describes as "the pretty good job
that Paul produces" still have to suit the differing needs to
feed the metaphoric 5000.
So it is unlikely that everyone will be fed by the same menu
that will be embedded differently into the fleshy heart of each
participant.
#Post#: 1960--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 27, 2025, 9:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=60.msg1957#msg1957
date=1751068330]
Now there's another of my 'hot chestnuts'.
This is getting just like the 'good old days'
The Bible is not intended to be a 'concise text book' it is a
menu (not a complete 'meal')
The Holy Spirit is God's waiter, in that he sorts out different
meals to suite different needs.
Some of the ingredients may be common in different meals but the
nutritional purpose of each meal is chosen to suit the needs of
each diner.
The menu is enormous if you take every written word in the
bible.
But that is understandable in the context of the enormous number
of diners at today's table.
And then consider the need to have suited all the diners
throughout the centuries!!
Little wonder that the menu (the bible) is such an enormous
compendium.
And yet it still gets treated as a complete meal rather than as
a menu.
God's menus from what Dave describes as "the pretty good job
that Paul produces" still have to suit the differing needs to
feed the metaphoric 5000.
So it is unlikely that everyone will be fed by the same menu
that will be embedded differently into the fleshy heart of each
participant.
[/quote]
Perhaps a thread about this would be helpful. What does the
Bible say about itself and its purpose? Why were the words of
Moses written down as scriptures for Israel? Perhaps another
question needs an answer too. Why did Jesus tell the Jews to do
what the scribes and Pharisees told them to do instead of
telling them to read the books they had and to obey them?
#Post#: 1961--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gems
By: Kerry Date: June 27, 2025, 11:59 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=60.msg1951#msg1951
date=1751064458]
most churches are tithe keepers
[/quote]
This too may deserve its own thread. My guess is not one in a
thousand Christians knows what the tithe was and what it was
used for. I didn't until a Jew explained it to me, and I could
see he was right when I checked the Bible. My previous lack of
knowledge amused me since I had believed what the church I grew
up in had taught. I'd be willing to bet none of these churches
buys strong drink with the tithe money they collect; but the
Bible says that's fine. Yes, the Jew pointed that to me too
with good humor, and my church had been strongly opposed to any
alcoholic drink.
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