DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://unitedindiversity.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Our Latest Spiritual Posts
*****************************************************
#Post#: 1686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: June 4, 2025, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=36.msg1685#msg1685
date=1749020588]
And did not the 'Day' to which Jeremiah referred, begin with the
30 odd year incarnate 'Day of Christ'?
[/quote]How can that passage from Jeremiah refer to Gentiles? I
know there are some people who say believing Gentiles are
Israel; but that passage can't mean that since my ancestors did
not make a covenant with God, were not in Egypt, etc.
The "new covenant" with Israel was always available to those who
"heard the Word" and allowed it to be written in their hearts.
When God spoke to them at Sinai, they heard a loud noise --
perhaps like a trumpet or thunder. They didn't like it and
asked Moses to go talk with God away from them. They did not
understand what was being said. Moses heard everything
perfectly however. Israel did hear and understand ten "words"
-- the Decalogue or the Ten Sayings -- what we call the "Ten
Commandments" even though there are hundreds of commandments
given in human words.
Israel was told to write the "Law" -- meaning the Law of Love,
not the written human words, in their hearts. The things they
wore on their foreheads and arms were meant to remind them to do
that.
So what gets "sacrificed" in this "New Covenant"? Blood of some
sort has to be shed by all parties in a covenant. Christians
tend to try to escape their obligations on this; but it is what
it has always been. The physical blood shed for the "Old
Covenant" isn't what it's about -- that was a symbol, more or
less.
David told us what the correct sacrifices are:
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right
spirit within me.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a
contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
So we see that some "Jews" like David were part of the "New
Covenant" -- but as a nation, they are still rebellious.
#Post#: 1689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: June 4, 2025, 6:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=36.msg1682#msg1682
date=1748996457]
For each of your questions and mine, God has answers, but the
answers for you may not work for me and vice versa. God has
lessons, I believe for each of us in accord with what we are and
where we are at the moment. I believe there have been a lot of
studies done with regard to hating Esau, but probably not so
much about the older children turning out poorly. I had thoughts
myself about the perfection of Job, but not lately. I have
considered him as perfect early with what he had in the way of
gifts and experiences. He then went through trials allowing him
the opportunity to grow some more.
[/quote]My guess is that we disagree on how to read Genesis 1,
especially verse which is usually translated as the earth "was"
without form and void. A better translation might be is that it
"became" without form and void. A prior world had fallen into
corruption; and the establishment of Eden was to correct the
spiritual errors.
I also read "sons of God" in chapter 6 as referring to the
fallen so-called gods. There are pagan stories, aren't there
about the gods having children with earthly women?
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown.
This fallen spiritual hierarchy was what Adam and Eve and their
offspring were meant to confront and beat.
Jesus told his disciples they were from above just as he was.
He also said the fallen spiritual leaders of his day were from
below. Yes, that's where they came from.
In Jesus' day, the Romans held the lawful authority. However
when they killed a totally innocent man, they lost that
authority. Thus Jesus "supplanted" their authority along with
their gods.
#Post#: 1692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Mike Waters Date: June 4, 2025, 10:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=36.msg1689#msg1689
date=1749034850]
My guess is that we disagree on how to read Genesis 1,
especially verse which is usually translated as the earth "was"
without form and void. A better translation might be is that it
"became" without form and void. A prior world had fallen into
corruption; and the establishment of Eden was to correct the
spiritual errors.
I also read "sons of God" in chapter 6 as referring to the
fallen so-called gods. There are pagan stories, aren't there
about the gods having children with earthly women?
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown.
This fallen spiritual hierarchy was what Adam and Eve and their
offspring were meant to confront and beat.
[/quote]
When I was young my chapel taught what is called the 'Gap
Theory', which seems to be similar to your thoughts (also
written about in a book entitled 'Earths earliest Ages' by J H
Pemberton if I remember correctly)
Meaty Theology which is rejected by the majority of those who
come across it, and consequently falls very solidly into the
category of what I consider to be 'Theological Controversy'.
Helen thinks I over react in my zeal to pitch the forum away
from such stuff, and she urges me not to 'moderate' accordingly
(and I appreciate her keeping me in reign).
#Post#: 1693--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: June 5, 2025, 12:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mike Waters link=topic=36.msg1692#msg1692
date=1749094027]
When I was young my chapel taught what is called the 'Gap
Theory', which seems to be similar to your thoughts (also
written about in a book entitled 'Earths earliest Ages' by J H
Pemberton if I remember correctly)
Meaty Theology which is rejected by the majority of those who
come across it, and consequently falls very solidly into the
category of what I consider to be 'Theological Controversy'.
Helen thinks I over react in my zeal to pitch the forum away
from such stuff, and she urges me not to 'moderate' accordingly
(and I appreciate her keeping me in reign).
[/quote]I was curious and found an article at Wikipedia about
it.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism
I found out more at other sites. Some people believe the
previous world was so wicked that God destroyed it. I wouldn't
go that far. I can imagine they may have destroyed it
themselves. Mankind today has the potential to destroy life on
this planet.
I think it explains a lot of other things in the Bible. Did
Satan blind the eyes of the people who were here before? For
me, those are the Gentiles. Jesus and Israel came here to act
as missionaries. That's the big difference I see between the
two. Every Jew (of the original Israel) has a job to do; and
Israel cannot enter into the kingdom until all the Gentiles do.
Jew and Gentile enter together.
Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it
shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all
languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of
him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have
heard that God is with you.
When I read "there was light" on Day One, I see that as
spiritual Light for the Gentiles.
If we want controversy, we could talk about something Jews
debate. There is a prophecy which says God will call Israel
back to the Promised Land. Some Jews say God didn't call them
back to live in Palestine, so it's wrong for them to be there.
They should be out in the world until the time arrives for both
Jew and Gentile to find peace. I agree with that, by the way:
The Zionists talked the UN into carving out the nation of Israel
-- I don't see God as doing it. It has not led to peace; it has
led to more wars.
#Post#: 1700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Helen Date: June 5, 2025, 10:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I can still swing any way on the creation issue . Some things I
have taken and put on my spiritual plate and leave there (
nothing better has come along) But I’m not ‘hard and fast ‘ on
much concerning the creation and Garden.
I do believe and hold the gap theory. To me nothing else makes
sense.
I cannot fit in the ‘cave men’ …dinosaurs I def have slotted in
to the pre this creation.
If the cave men were there too then I can’t see why. None of
the wall drawing show redemption of the worship of a God. So I
have no idea really where they fit. If Adam and Eve were first
, then where else can they fit , not pre flood for sure .
I believe Satan was cast out, and down to the old creation
world .
He is very obviously a big part of Gods Plan, as God placed
him right in the middle of the Garden.
I know none of this changes evangelism or our salvation …but
very fascinating to talk over and discuss. :)
#Post#: 1706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: June 5, 2025, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Helen link=topic=36.msg1700#msg1700
date=1749138430]
I can still swing any way on the creation issue . Some things I
have taken and put on my spiritual plate and leave there (
nothing better has come along) But I’m not ‘hard and fast ‘ on
much concerning the creation and Garden.
I do believe and hold the gap theory. To me nothing else makes
sense.
I cannot fit in the ‘cave men’ …dinosaurs I def have slotted in
to the pre this creation.
If the cave men were there too then I can’t see why. None of
the wall drawing show redemption of the worship of a God. So I
have no idea really where they fit. If Adam and Eve were first
, then where else can they fit , not pre flood for sure .
I believe Satan was cast out, and down to the old creation
world .
He is very obviously a big part of Gods Plan, as God placed
him right in the middle of the Garden.
I know none of this changes evangelism or our salvation …but
very fascinating to talk over and discuss. :)
[/quote]
It explains for me why some saints' names were said to have been
written in the Book of Life at the foundation of the world.
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and
shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were
not written in the book of life from the foundation of the
world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet
is.
I see them as missionaries or medical workers with the purpose
of getting others' names in the Book. Thus some would get
infected by the diseases they came to help cure. If your
purpose is saving as many lives as possible, you would put more
effort into keeping the medical workers alive than others since
if one of them died of a disease, it could mean thousands of
other deaths. Thus I don't see Him as playing favorites or
being a respecter of persons even though some may think He plays
favorites.
Some people may read that to mean there's nothing we can do
about it -- if your name was in the Book from the beginning,
there's nothing you can do be to saved. The text doesn't say
that however. I can't see how it could since God is not willing
that any should perish.
I see the cave men as probably not being human but more like
apes; but I don't know.
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page