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#Post#: 1553--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Mike Waters Date: May 27, 2025, 2:59 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=36.msg1547#msg1547
date=1748367924]
It sounds right to me. The parallels between Genesis and
Revelation astound me. The subject might be worth a thread of
its own. John's insights astound me too. It took me a very long
time to read Revelation by the way. I kept stopping to compare
passages that weren't clear to me to other passages in the
Bible.
If I were a 90 year old Jew, steeped in Jewish tradition, and
imprisoned in a cave with a bed hewn out of rock (I've been
there and seen it) I would Halucinate, with many halucinations
mirroring my past upbringing, including references to Genesis.
It was quite some time before Revelation was accepted into the
'canon of scripture'
(that's just my frequent, non spiritual inclination)
#Post#: 1554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Helen Date: May 27, 2025, 3:11 pm
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[quote author=Dave link=topic=36.msg1548#msg1548
date=1748368267]
My pittance on 'forgiveness' pales in the light of the good
stuff here.
I wonder on it's actual significance in the body of Christ for
today, is it just a 'soul' washing exercise?
As you reach for a stone, did the law end and it's rituals with
it at the cross?
On the cross Jesus prays "Father forgive them, for they do not
know what they are doing"
In the natural they knew very well what they were doing, so why
did it bring that response from Jesus a 'forgiveness' prayer.
Adam and his wife do not get the same response from the Lord,
only judgement, so can one concluded theirs hands were found
conclusively in the 'cookie jar'.
And their 'free will' opened God's original Plan for the 'man'
he had created!!!
At the cross we see the Plan that they did not know, but that it
would come to a full conclusion and and a full forgiveness would
come for all.
A personal working out of 'personal needs' in the areas of
forgiveness is still applicable it seems.GtG feed bag time.
[/quote]
No I don’t believe the law ended at the cross. I believe it
ended when Jesus ascended and presented the holy blood to Father
God . And that is where the New Covenant began …He gave them a
clue when He said to them “ This is the blood of the New
Covenant “ and told them of His death and resurrection.
Their poor minds must have been whirling with the overload
of the revelation.
And yes , I do believe forgiveness still has significance in the
body of Christ today.
It is mostly for our own benefit , ( unforgiveness is poison
..as someone said , “like drinking poison but waiting for the
other guy to drop dead”. ) ..and then , secondly for the one
that we choose to forgive .
My 2 cents ..
#Post#: 1555--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Mike Waters Date: May 27, 2025, 3:20 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=36.msg1554#msg1554
date=1748376699]
No I don’t believe the law ended at the cross. I believe it
ended when Jesus ascended and presented the holy blood to Father
God . And that is where the New Covenant began …He gave them a
clue when He said to them “ This is the blood of the New
Covenant “ and told them of His death and resurrection.
[/quote]
And there was I, thinking that I was on my own with that one.
Great minds think alike (especially when led by the Holy Spirit)
#Post#: 1573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Ivor Date: May 28, 2025, 11:42 am
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They knew their bodies were naked and now couldn't un-know that
knowledge... so God gave them covering and dignity
#Post#: 1575--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Helen Date: May 28, 2025, 12:20 pm
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[quote author=Ivor link=topic=36.msg1573#msg1573
date=1748450576]
They knew their bodies were naked and now couldn't un-know that
knowledge... so God gave them covering and dignity
[/quote]
Indeed , I’m not sure if they really believed that like us, they
were now dying a day at a time…
“Thou shalt surely die ..” they lost the glory covering that He
had given them , and now naked without it!
We will shed this shell , and be given the coveting of glory!
Blessings …H
#Post#: 1583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Amadeus Date: May 28, 2025, 2:51 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=36.msg1533#msg1533
date=1748356662]
I can think of three others who "attained" while in physical
bodies on this earth; but the world was not ready yet to receive
the Gospel in full. Enoch, Moses, and Elijah all partook of the
Tree of Life, I would say. Why were they here if the world was
not ready yet? To prepare the world in part, and to intercede
also, and to pass down their annointing as Elijah did to Elisha.
Yet the Cross should be seen as a physical symbol of the
spiritual Tree of Life.
Also of interest is how Eve was drawn from the side of Adam --
again our Bibles tend to mistranslate that saying she was made
from one of Adam's ribs -- but it's from the side. Compare
that now to the blood which came from the side of Jesus at the
Crucifixion. Surely this represents the Spiritual Blood of
Christ -- and the Bride of Christ was formed from it.
[/quote]
Has the world, that is the people in the world, ever been ready
to grow more like God?
What is the "Gospel in full"?
What is the Word of God? When the NT had not been written or
compiled or translated into a languages we could understand, did
God communicate with men? Were men listening to or asking
anything of God?
As a man, Jesus was growing? Lu 2:52 And Jesus increased in
wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
As men have some of us been growing? Are we closer to being like
God than we were before? Are we growing only toward what men
once were or is it toward something higher than men have ever
been?
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will
make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house
of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them
out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although
I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with
the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will
put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;
and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
#Post#: 1586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Mike Waters Date: May 28, 2025, 3:59 pm
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Amadeus, best response that I can give to your many questions is
to tell you that they are identical to so much that preoccupies
my thoughts and convictions.
I conclude that 'great minds think alike' ... or more to the
point great minds are led similarly by the Holy Spirit.
Your quote from Jeremiah is constantly brought to my attention
by the Holy Spirit and is one of the 'milestones' of my walk of
faith.
God bless you ... Mike
#Post#: 1592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: May 28, 2025, 11:46 pm
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=36.msg1583#msg1583
date=1748461864]
What is the Word of God? When the NT had not been written or
compiled or translated into a languages we could understand, did
God communicate with men? Were men listening to or asking
anything of God?
[/quote]
Notice that the "new covenant" is with Judah. Many people read
it as referring to Gentiles, but I do not.
Gentiles never hear the Voice of God -- or the Divine Word -- as
Israel did. Moses heard it all and understood it all. Joshua
understood more; but the people heard and understood only the
Decalogue often called the Ten Commandments. There were far
more than ten given however. The ten sayings or ten words were
what Israel could understand.
They did not want to hear the Voice of God. It was too loud and
threatening to them. If they had been totally perfect or even
willing to be totally perfect, it would have been a "profound
silence." They rejected God then in large part in a way
Gentiles never did since they didn't face this test.
The "written laws" Moses produced then were in the human
language. It was not the Living Word however. It was the "Word
of God" only in a limited way, the best a human language could
convey the Truth. The Living Word is Eternal, will never pass
away. It was Perfect from the beginning and there was never any
reason to change any of it or to drop parts of it. David and
Jesus were referring to the Spiritual Law and not to the written
words of humans when they wrote:
Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth
pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.
How else could Gentiles do the things "in the law" and be
rewarded for it? If they obeyed their consciences, they could.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by
nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the
law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their
conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean
while accusing or else excusing one another;)
I say it's not really Scripture until it's written on the heart
as Jeremiah wrote.
Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in
your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your
hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
These physical objects were meant to remind Israel to lay up
God's words in their hearts and souls.
#Post#: 1594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2025, 12:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Helen link=topic=36.msg1575#msg1575
date=1748452859]
Indeed , I’m not sure if they really believed that like us, they
were now dying a day at a time…
“Thou shalt surely die ..” they lost the glory covering that He
had given them , and now naked without it!
We will shed this shell , and be given the coveting of glory!
Blessings …H
[/quote]
I think they were dead -- even if their bodies weren't.
Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the
dead bury their dead.
Paul also refers to people we would call living as being dead.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in
trespasses and sins;
#Post#: 1596--------------------------------------------------
Re: Forgiveness
By: Mike Waters Date: May 29, 2025, 12:12 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=36.msg1592#msg1592
date=1748493995]
I say it's not really Scripture until it's written on the heart
as Jeremiah wrote.
[/quote]
I think that there are three 'dispensations' of Divine
communication.
Firstly... The 'Word of God' carved on tablets of Stone.
Secondly...The 'Word of God' penned by ink on papyrus (IOW
'scripture' meaning 'written')
Thirdly..The 'Word of God' written on the fleshy tablets of
man's heart (commencing at the point of Christ's Glorification
when he sent the Holy Spirit to thereon be the 'communicator')
I think that puts me closer to Amadeus' thinking.
But let the differences between us be in deference to the
possibility that any one of us could be wholly or partly right
or wrong due to the 'Darkened Glass' that pervades until we
finally "meet Christ face to face"
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