DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
UK Flashaholics
HTML https://ukflashaholics.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Flashlight Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 340--------------------------------------------------
The Tryton Dive light
By: Spasmod Date: April 6, 2013, 1:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Twitter, I came across this Tryton Dive light..
There's not a great deal of info on the internal specs but from
reading the literature on their site, I have come to the
following conclusions.
Now I'm only guessing here but what seems logical to me is this.
They mention a Cree Q5 so I'm expecting it's most likely an X-RE
emitter judging by the specified Lumen output
The LED is driven @ 400mA and uses a 2400mA cell (I'm guessing
an 18650)
Output is claimed of 125 Lumens, bear in mind this won't be
taking into consideration Driver efficiency and Lens losses so
expected OTF lumens is likely to be in the region of 90-100 OFT
Despite the relative low output, it does use a TIR lens so it's
going to be quite a thrower but here's where it gets
interesting.
The light has been tested to 91 meters :o that's impressive and
with a 5 hour runtime (with what seems like a deliberately
under-driven LED to maintain runtime longevity) alongside a
fully linear regulated driver to maintain output for the longest
possible time, it's got to be a winner !?
Even more impressive is the Inductive electromagnetic charging
system (wireless charging) with built in cell/charge protection.
This means the light can be fully sealed without any potential
vulnerabilities for water ingress.
They also offer a 12 month (what seems like a no quibble) item
replacement warranty. Though personally, for the price point of
this light (which isn't cheap at $130 + shipping) they perhaps
could have offered a longer warranty if they wanted to boost
sales on the basis of customer peace of mind. Afterall, the
light is fully sealed so if something goes wrong, you're not
going to be able to drop in a new cell or replace the driver.
So what do you guys think ?
I can see the negatives but also there are a lot positives to
balance it out.
What are your thoughts on the output ? is 100 lumens enough for
underwater use, even with a narrow thrower beam ?
Personally I would probably use this as an emergency backup
light, it's small and will be easy to carry and with such a long
runtime could be the lifesaver you need if lost somewhere in
underwater caves for example...
I like the concept a lot and will be keeping an eye out to see
if they produce a larger light based on the same or similar
principles.
Perhaps Tryton will come and give us their thoughts and some
further insight into development. ;)
More info at their site here
HTML http://www.trytongear.com/
HTML http://www.trytongear.com/
HTML http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1134/carouselcontent01.png
#Post#: 346--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: trytongear Date: April 6, 2013, 7:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Everyone,
I am the guy who started Tryton Exploration Gear. I am an avid
scuba diver who was frustrated by dive light flooding and
designed the DryLite. We are a very small company and this is
our first product, so I am thrilled to hear the positives you
mentioned in the prior post.
That post got most of the details right, but I'll expand a bit
here.
The emitter is the Cree XR-E Q5, and we do use a TIR lens to
provide a real tight 7.5 degree beam. I am not much of an
underwater photographer, and always seem to find myself in dark,
cold waters, so I designed the optics to penetrate rather than
provide a wide flood.
The TIR optics also provide more efficient use of a lower lumen
output.
I actually under report the lumen output on the website. I
personally cannot stand when the quoted lumen output is grossly
exaggerated with flashlights.
We test in an integrated sphere and DryLite's output is 138
lumens (torch lumens - including lens, driver circuit, etc.).
We use a constant current driver to keep the output constant
throughout the burn, and we under report the burn time as well.
Total burn time is 500 minutes, giving a useful work time is 6h
and 30 minutes. After 6 hours the beam will flash once every
minute to let you know that you need to recharge. The lengthy
burn time is due to a extra high capacity 18650 battery.
Personally I have found that 138 lumens is more than sufficient
for underwater work, but I am not a cave diver (too
claustrophobic). With the tightness of the beam, the Lux at 1M
is high (5800 Lux) but I think that a wider beam is preferred
for caves, so a caving primary light would probably want a much
higher Lumen output with a wider beam. As a recreational
primary/ technical secondary I think the light performs very
well, but I am biased.
I hope these specs help. I would include the discharge curve
from the sphere test, but I cannot figure out how to attach
files to this post. Email me privately and I'll be happy to
provide it.
As for future development, I am currently designing several
additional models, including a tech diving primary light. That
design would incorporate a focusable flood to throw beam and an
estimated 1200 lumen output. As usual, the challenge is burn
time. Inductive charging is difficult to do, and even though
the theoretical efficiency is in the mid to high 90 percent, in
practice its hard to get out of the 80's. That means that
adding larger battery banks means longer charge times. I am
working on that now, but it is still in the early design stagge.
If I can answer any other questions or be of any assistance,
please let me know. I can be reached through the website at
www.trytongear.com or email me directly at
justin.omps@trytongear.com
Justin
#Post#: 347--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: Spasmod Date: April 6, 2013, 8:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Justin, it's a pleasure to have you join us.
Thanks for giving us the detailed information on the DryLite,
it's good to know you have published reserved output and runtime
numbers. I only wish others would do the same :)
There are a lot of diving lights out there with potential issues
I agree, and rarely do they live up the the expectations,
especially with the water pressure of 50m and below. It's quite
an accomplishment what you have achieved so far.
I can only imagine what a steep learning curve it must have been
to go from an idea of how to make a dive light guaranteed
water-tight, to actually developing and producing a tested and
working end product.
I'm curious as to which part of the light was biggest hurdle in
the design ? was it the charging circuit or the actual sealing
of the light ?
Also, what did your customers and colleagues think of the light
under prolonged use ? Sorry for all the questions :)
Thanks again Justin for your input, it's nice to be able to hear
directly from you guys who design and manufacture these lights,
especially when you have knowledge and good experience with the
direct conditions surrounding it's intended use.
I will pm you with my email address so you can send the file and
I will attach it for you.
Spas
#Post#: 370--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: trytongear Date: April 8, 2013, 8:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It has been a very long process. DryLite has been a 4 year
concept to market development project. It has been an
interesting adventure though and I would not change it if I
could.
The most difficult part was definitely the inductive circuit.
It is an interesting story. 4 Years ago, when I first set out on
development, inductive charging products were very rare. The
"Qi" standard had not been released, and there were no effective
models that met my spec requirements. The FCC rules governing
wireless charging were also just being developed and
certification testing required a special authorization from the
FCC.
I hired a company to design the charging circuit. After 6
months they gave up and admitted they couldn't build it. I
hired another company and received the same result after another
3 or 4 months. A final company gave up after another several
months. I was incredibly frustrated because I had wasted over a
year and had nothing to show for it. Finally I started googling
and reading; learning the difference between resistors and
capacitors. I then bought a breadboarding kit. I became real
familiar to Mouser.com from all my component orders. After a
few weeks I was able to build a CRUDE functional prototype. It
worked, charged wirelessly, and was a functioning flashlight,
but the charge rate was abyssmal (10-15mA). I documented my
process, built a more refined prototype, and bought tickets to
China.
I visited probably two dozen manufacturers in China. I met with
a manufacturer who offered me tea, mentioned that he had read my
"read ahead" documentation, and proceeded to show me a
professional mock up of an inductive circuit he built, just for
our meeting. I knew I had found the guy I was looking for and
we have been working together for the last two years to develop
the DryLite.
That was by far the biggest challenge, but not the only one. We
went through probably a dozen prototypes and designs, flooding
some, blowing up others, before we solved all the technical
problems. But that's a whole series of stories.
Regardless, it's been a good time.
#Post#: 371--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: Chicago X Date: April 8, 2013, 11:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That sound like a true labour of love. I hope you have much
success with this light, as well as any future offerings !
#Post#: 372--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: Spasmod Date: April 8, 2013, 1:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chicago X link=topic=143.msg371#msg371
date=1365440265]
That sound like a true labour of love. I hope you have much
success with this light, as well as any future offerings !
[/quote]
Yes definitely sounds like a labour of love :) it's fascinating
to read the trials and tribulations involved in order to develop
and build the DryLite.
Thanks Justin
Spas
PS.. on a similar note - I've been designing and building a
Magnetic Loop antenna with a friend of mine recently. It works
on a similar principle to Induction and uses an Electromagnetic
Field with fine tuning for coupling and operation.
We finally have it up and running with ~99% efficiency but it
was a massive learning curve and quite enlightening :D
#Post#: 373--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: JohnnyMac Date: April 8, 2013, 2:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your light looks great, Justin! I wish you much success with it
and look forward to seeing any future offerings. :)
#Post#: 386--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: gords1001 Date: April 8, 2013, 5:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm extremely interested to know what happens in a vent with
flame situation. Not to sound negative but I think given your
trials so far, you will have come up with a cool solution to the
issue, something I've not seen mentioned on other onboard charge
li-ion lights, I also hope the technology can be moved to edc
type lights or some of the more traditional surface use
rechargeable lights/lanterns, it would be a real scoop on the
market.
Congratulations on your product, I look forward to your success
and future developments.
Graham
#Post#: 395--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: trytongear Date: April 8, 2013, 7:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That's a good question. Vent to Flame is of course the principal
danger of lithium ion battery chemistry and it is currently
prevalent in the media, especially after the DreamLiner debacle.
The Vent to Flame issue is influenced by several factors,
including manufacturing, cell protection, and external charging.
What causes vent to flame is an internal battery thermal
runaway. This can be caused by contamination of the battery
with metallic particles, which would be a remnant of
manufacturing. It can be caused by a faulty external charger
which overcharges or overheats the battery. Most surprisingly,
it can also be caused by static discharge which might damage
circuitry intended to protect the battery.
DryLite uses an industry standard 18650 Lithium Ion battery with
integrated circuit protection. This is an important point for
two reasons:
1. We are using a standard battery that is used in the majority
of 3W LED flashlights. This is not a custom manufactured
battery. Custom manufacturing creates an additional risk when
dealing with Lithium Ion chemistry because energy density and
construction tolerances must be carefully designed and perfectly
executed. This may be difficult to achieve without extensive
manufacturing and testing. A custom designed battery is what
wrecked havoc on the DreamLiner. I chose a common battery to
ensure that the power source design has literally millions of
hours of testing behind it.
2. I also insisted that the battery was equipped with internal
protective circuits that open the electrical path in the case of
a thermal runaway. This circuitry ensures that in the case of a
manufacturing defect the battery does not experience a thermal
runaway. There are also integrated mechanical safeguards as
well. In addition to shutdown and venting designs, the battery
also contains physical dividers to prevent thermal runaway from
spreading between cells should the protective circuitry fail.
The charging apparatus for DryLite is carefully designed to
monitor temperature and voltage level of the battery and ensure
that the battery is not overcharged. The programming for this
circuit was a lengthy and challenging task, as we ensured that
the flashlight never exceeds 140 degrees Fahrenheit at the
interface surface of the induction charger, ensuring the
internal battery stays well below 130 degrees Fahrenheit. This
temperature regulation ensures that overheating will not cause
thermal runaway with the Lithium Ion chemistry. Very rapid
charge rates introduce a higher risk of runaway, but rapid
charge rates are one of the challenges of induction charging.
Do to the inefficiency with this method it is very difficult to
achieve high charge rates. Fortunately, the low charge rates
native to inductive charging makes the method safer with Lithium
Ion chemistry. The maximum charge rate is simply not capable of
producing temperatures required to create a dangerous situation.
Finally, the risk of static electricity damaging the protective
circuitry is highest when rechargeable batteries are moved or
exposed, like when placing them in an external charger. With
the permanently sealed, contactless inductive charging system,
this risk is eliminated.
Although vent to flame is a terrible situation, it is
exceedingly rare. The best testimony to the safety of the
chemistry is the sheer number of devices powered by Lithium Ion
batteries today that are used safely. DryLite alone has racked
up over 10,000 hours of charge cycle testing with no problems
encountered, but that absolutely pales in comparison to the
millions of laptops, cell phones, and electronics that use
lithium ion batteries without incident every day and the
billions of Li-ion batteries produced every year.
Hope this helps alleviate any concerns, if not please feel free
to contact me.
Justin
www.trytongear.com
#Post#: 397--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Tryton Dive light
By: Spasmod Date: April 8, 2013, 7:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm just going to stick this in here :)
[flash=560,315]
HTML http://www.youtube.com/v/-dqFnamdKbo#![/flash]
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page