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#Post#: 8120--------------------------------------------------
Falangism and Francoism
By: Aryan_Militarism Date: August 17, 2021, 12:31 pm
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Hello fellow Aryanists, after a long time of reading the forum,
I finally decided to register ;) But to the point...
Recently, on my blog, I have a quite interesting discussion with
a falangist who accused us (Aryanists) of ignorance and was
clearly outraged that in the article "National Socialism and
Fascism" on Anet we call falangism the far right and that we say
that it is an Islamophobic and racist ideology. I will summarize
his arguments:
1. He argues that falangism is a radical ideology (which is
neither right-wing nor far-right) and the ideologists of
falangism, José Antonio and Ramiro Ledesma, clearly distanced
their movement from the left-right dichotomy.
2. He argues that Spanish falangism was neither racist nor
Islamophobic. Falangism (in which racial theories were
practically vague) included both the Spaniards, Latinos and the
Muslim population of Spanish Morocco, and the members of the
Falange Española included all of the above-mentioned ethnic
groups.
3. He claims that falangism spread the universalist idea of
​​hispanidad, which emphasized the need for unity
and cooperation between the Spanish-speaking countries
regardless of ethnic differences.
4. He argues that apart from Spain, falangism currently occurs
only in Latin America, and there are also some sympathizers of
falangism in the Philippines. It is therefore absurd to call
European neo-fascist far-rightists collectively "falangists."
5. He claims that the modern falangists are anti-Zionists,
support a free Palestine and that they are not Islamophobes.
6. He argues that original falangism, unlike Fracoism, is not a
conservative ideology, as we can read on Wikipedia. He argues
that the falangists competed strongly with the Carlist camp,
promoted syndicalism in the economy, and in the cultural sphere
they had strong influence in surrealism for example. He claims
that in the social context falangists also wanted to strongly
improve the social status of women in society.
7. He argues that falangism has nothing to do with Francoism.
They differed in their approach to the Catholic Church
(phalagism was secularist, Francoism was extremely clerical),
their approach to economy (falangists were national
syndicalists, Franco from the 1950s supported liberal economy)
or systemic issues (falangists were syndicalists, i.e. they
advocated the domination of workers councils that formed
committees from which in turn higher instances of power were
choosed; Franco did not do that)
8. He claims that Franco was never an ideological falangist (but
a national Catholic), he was only politically involved with this
movement. Finally, he claims that most of the modern falangists
clearly distance themselves from the Franco regime that
persecuted ideological falangists.
The question is, do you think that, as Aryanists, we should
revise our approach to falangism, not equate it with Francoism
and generally treat it similarly to fascism, that is, as a
movement that has its flaws but can be a potential ally? Perhaps
it would be better to call racist neo-fascists not falangists,
but simply neo-fascists or identitarians. Yeah, I don't like
their symbol (yoke and arrows) due to its anti-Islamic
references and conotation with the Reconquista and Ferdinand II
and Isabella, two Islamophobes, but apart from that in many ways
they seemed to be similar to Degrelle's Rexists or Fascists and
not to Francoists. Or am I missing something?
#Post#: 8126--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falangism and Francoism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 17, 2021, 10:11 pm
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"2. He argues that Spanish falangism was neither racist nor
Islamophobic. Falangism (in which racial theories were
practically vague) included both the Spaniards, Latinos and the
Muslim population of Spanish Morocco"
So is this guy currently trying to open the Spain-Morocco border
so that the all refugees who want to get into Spain from Morocco
can get in? If so, he is our ally. If not, he is our enemy.
"3. He claims that falangism spread the universalist idea of
​​hispanidad, which emphasized the need for unity
and cooperation between the Spanish-speaking countries
regardless of ethnic differences."
Do falangists consider Spanish-speaking countries as a whole to
be part of Western civilization, or victims of Western
civilization? Thus do they consider Spanish-speaking countries
closer to non-Spanish-speaking Western countries, or to
non-Spanish-speaking non-Western countries that were formerly
colonized? If the former, they are our enemies. If the latter,
they are our allies.
"4. He argues that apart from Spain, falangism currently occurs
only in Latin America, and there are also some sympathizers of
falangism in the Philippines. It is therefore absurd to call
European neo-fascist far-rightists collectively "falangists.""
We want the the following countries to change their names:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/name-decolonization/msg28/#msg28
[quote]The name of the Philippines (Filipino: Pilipinas
[pɪlɪˈpinɐs]; Spanish: Filipinas) is a
truncated form of Philippine Islands, derived from the King
Philip II of Spain in the 16th century.
...
Due to the colonial origin and direct meaning of the country's
current name, proposals for name change have surfaced since the
late 19th century up to present time. Among the proposed names
that have surfaced include Sovereign Tagalog Nation (Haring
Bayang Katagalugan)[6][7], Katipunan (Assembly/Gathering)[8],
Kapatiran (Brotherhood)[8], Luzviminda (Luzon, Visayas, and
Mindanao)[9], Luzvimindas (Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao, and eastern
Sabah)[9], Mahárlika (Nobility)[8], Rizalia[8], Rizaline
Republic (República Rizalina)[10], and Dayaw Republic
(Repúblikang Dayaw).[/quote]
[quote]For most of its history, up until independence, the
country was known as Santo Domingo[36]—the name of its present
capital and patron saint, Saint Dominic—and continued to be
commonly known as such in English until the early 20th
century.[37] The residents were called "Dominicans"
(Dominicanos), which is the adjective form of "Domingo", and the
revolutionaries named their newly independent country "Dominican
Republic" (República Dominicana).
In the national anthem of the Dominican Republic (himno
nacional de la República Dominicana), the term "Dominicans" does
not appear. The author of its lyrics, Emilio Prud'Homme,
consistently uses the poetic term "Quisqueyans" (Quisqueyanos).
The word "Quisqueya" derives from a native tongue of the Taino
Indians and means "Mother of the lands" (Madre de las tierras).
It is often used in songs as another name for the
country.[/quote]
[quote]The name "Colombia" is derived from the last name of
Christopher Columbus(Italian: Cristoforo Colombo, Spanish:
Cristóbal Colón). It was conceived by the Venezuelan
revolutionary Francisco de Miranda as a reference to all the New
World, but especially to those portions under Spanish rule (by
then from Mississippi river to Patagonia). The name waslater
adopted by the Republic of Colombia of 1819, formed from the
territories of the old Viceroyalty of New Granada (modern-day
Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Ecuador, and northwest
Brazil).[18][/quote]
[quote]The Spanish expedition led by Alonso de Ojeda, sailing
along the length of the northern coast of South America in 1499,
gave the name Venezuela ("little Venice" in Spanish) to the Gulf
of Venezuela — because of its imagined similarity to the Italian
city.[/quote]
Do falangists in those regions support this initiative?
"Ferdinand II and Isabella"
Do falangists consider them to be heroes or villains? And if the
latter, then why use their symbol?
#Post#: 8138--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falangism and Francoism
By: Aryan_Militarism Date: August 18, 2021, 8:04 am
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I wish I had asked him the questions you were suggesting, we
would have had a clear picture of their true beliefs.
[quote]So is this guy currently trying to open the Spain-Morocco
border so that the all refugees who want to get into Spain from
Morocco can get in? If so, he is our ally. If not, he is our
enemy.[/quote]
I didn't ask him about that but I would be very suprised if he
said yes.
[quote]Do falangists consider Spanish-speaking countries as a
whole to be part of Western civilization, or victims of Western
civilization? Thus do they consider Spanish-speaking countries
closer to non-Spanish-speaking Western countries, or to
non-Spanish-speaking non-Western countries that were formerly
colonized? If the former, they are our enemies. If the latter,
they are our allies.[/quote]
I did not ask him specifically about their approach to Western
civilization. Political radicalism and distancing from the right
might suggest a critical approach to this issue, but that's not
enough to say anything for sure.
My guess is that probably the former is closer to their
perception of reality. But from what this guy wrote, modern
falangists are apparently positive about anti-Zionist
non-Western countries.
[quote]Do falangists in those regions support this
initiative?[/quote]
I highly doubt they see this as problem.
[quote]"Ferdinand II and Isabella"
Do falangists consider them to be heroes or villains? And if the
latter, then why use their symbol?[/quote]
HTML https://artykulyaryjskie.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/yoke-and-arrows-2.jpg
M. Basilio, Visual Propaganda, Exhibitions, and the Spanish
Civil War, 2013, p. 144
I bring this argument also into discussion, but he's only
response was that "symbolism is marginal issue". But still, if
they insist that they are not Islamophobic yet their official
symbol has an obvious anti-Islamic connotation it is a bit as if
the National Socialists would claim to be anti-communists and at
the same time would use the sickle and hammer. It would be
schizophrenic to say the least.
So to sum this up, falangism>Francoism, but but still not good
enough to be worthy of being a potential ally?
#Post#: 8151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falangism and Francoism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 19, 2021, 2:18 am
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"still not good enough to be worthy of being a potential ally?"
Regarding Spain, our most immediate threat comes from VOX:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/vox/
so if they are willing to fight VOX, that would be helpful
irrespective of their positions on other issues. Are they?
#Post#: 28984--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: December 17, 2024, 11:56 pm
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[quote author=antihellenistic link=topic=145.msg28411#msg28411
date=1730075455]
Real meaning of Fascism
[quote]...we must create an ‘ethical state’ that benefits the
whole society. The nation, for Gentile, is not just a collection
of individuals united by a common goal (a concept he calls
immoral). The nation, he said, unites all people in one state -
one superconsciousness. And it is through the state and the
nation that the individual forms himself. ‘Individualism and
egoism,’ he said, ‘are problems that must be overcome.’ And
Gentile said ‘that true self-fulfillment can only be achieved by
becoming one with the State and the historical community’. One
important thing to take away from all this is that, although we
are spiritually connected, Gentile recognizes the individual as
a consciousness that stands alone.[/quote]
Watch the video at minute 37:56 to 38:51
[quote]Racism is not mentioned in the 'Doctrine of Fascism'
written by Gentile and signed by Mussolini. And in 1937, Gentile
even wrote an article saying that German anti-Semitism was a
"monstrous barbarism" unworthy of a civilized society.[/quote]
Watch the video at 41:33 to 41:54
[quote]The Fascist Movement is NOT on the “Far-Right” Political
Spectrum. They are on the third positionist Political
Spectrum.[/quote]
Minutes 52:59 to 53:12
Source :
HTML https://youtu.be/q_ReESRfV8g?feature=shared
[/quote]
Update about Fascism ideology, explaining the weakness of
Fascism and Mussolini's own betrayal to Fascism
[quote]It was Benito Mussolini who were rightist on political
spectrum, because he still allowed his officials to accumulate
capital and the presence of high-class bankers in Mussolini's
leadership
It was the dictatorship of Francisco Franco who were rightist on
political spectrum, because he still allowed the feudal class to
remain strong in Spain[/quote]
Source :
Hitler's National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann Pages 556 to 558
Mussolini's view on social structure of society
[quote]Mussolini was concerned that the increasing numbers and
geographical expansion of Asian and African races would cause
the civilization of Europe to decline. He argued that he had
been warning people about the decline of the "White Race" since
1926, which is why he launched the Battle for Births in 1927 to
encourage women to have children. Tax privileges were given to
families with more children, while bachelors faced high
taxation. On the issue of the low birth rate of White people,
Mussolini said in 1928:
“[When the] city dies, the nation – deprived of the young
life-blood of new generations – is now made up of people who are
old and degenerate and cannot defend itself against a younger
people which launches an attack on the now unguarded frontiers
[...] This will happen, and not just to cities and nations, but
on an infinitely greater scale: the whole White race, the
Western race can be submerged by other coloured races which are
multiplying at a rate unknown in our race."
— Benito Mussolini quoted in Fascism by Roger Griffin
“We are moving towards an Africanized America in which the white
race, due to the inexorable law of numbers, will end up being
overwhelmed by the fertile nephews of the proverbial Uncle Tom.
Will we see blacks in the White House in half a century, in a
century?”
— Benito Mussolini, Europe Without Europeans
...
Mussolini also referred to a “White race” in Which Way Is The
World Going? published in Gerarchia on February 25th, 1922,
indicating that he at the very least recognized the existence of
race. So I find it hard to believe Mussolini got these views
from Hitler. Further validation of this can be found various
quotations from Mussolini talking of race. Where we see an
obvious continuity in early Fascism to its more mature views
during the 1940s.
...
The Ethiopian invasion was seen as an opportunity to address the
situation discussed in Mussolini's 1934 essay. He pushed for
demographic colonization, which involved creating permanent
Italian settlements to solve Italy's land hunger problem and
repopulating East Africa as a white European space. Maintaining
racial boundaries was central to Mussolini's colonial culture
vision. This motivated many in the Fascist party to serve the
regime, and architects and urban planners used race as the main
criterion for spatial organization in Ethiopia. They followed
the mandates to keep Italian and African cultures separate and
unequal, passing laws in 1939 with the goal of preserving
"racial prestige." These laws regulated interracial social
contact and enforced racial segregation.
In 1937, miscegenation became a criminal offense for all
Italians, punishable by five years in prison. Women who had
relationships with African men were publicly whipped and sent to
concentration camps. Many Italian colonial authorities and some
party members believed that assimilation similar to the French
model led to the loss of white prestige by encouraging the
colonized to mimic their European rulers. Instead, they
advocated for a politics of difference that would continually
remind Africans of their inferior status.
...
"In addition, a system of apartheid was introduced involving
segregation in public places and an April 1937 law made sexual
relations between whites and blacks a crime punishable by up to
five years in prison. A popular Fascist song was ‘Faccetta nera’
(Little Black Face) about a slave girl freed by Italian soldiers
so she can go to Rome and wear a black shirt. Eventually,
Mussolini banned the song and ordered Badoglio to punish Italian
soldiers guilty of “sexual relations with native girls."
— Nicholas Farrel, Mussolini: A New Life
...
The flaws of Fascism ideology
Despite this, the philosophical framework Gentile devised for
Fascism was flexible enough to be adapted to racial
considerations. For instance, just as the laws of physics and
chemistry achieve consistency in reality through the construct
of an infinite mind, so too can the principles of heredity find
order within the collective reality. Niccolò Giani, a
distinguished Fascist intellectual, contended that Hegel's
perspectives on race could be assimilated into Fascist
Actualism. He saw this not as a paradox but as a dialectical
evolution within Fascist thought.
Hegel himself made a statement on this matter in The Philosophy
of History:
"The peculiarly characteristic feature of the Negro is that his
consciousness has not yet attained to the realization of any
substantial objectivity, as for example, that of God or law; and
hence his nature is one of mere wild, brutal caprice. On the
other hand, the Negro exhibits the natural man in his completely
wild and untamed state. We must lay aside all thought of
reverence and morality—all that we call feeling—if we would
rightly comprehend him; there is nothing harmonious with
humanity to be found in this type of character. The copious and
circumstantial accounts of missionaries completely confirm this,
and Mahommedanism (which first proceeded from Arabia to the West
coast of Africa, and from thence to other parts) has, like
Christianity, been able to do very little towards improving the
moral condition of the Negroes."
— Hegel, The Philosophy of History
...
the official stance of Fascism regarding race can be summarized
as follows:
"A relationship of absolutely pure blood connects today's
Italians with the generations that have lived in Italy for
millennia. This ancient purity of blood is the greatest title of
nobility of the Italian nation... The purely European character
of Italians would be altered by any crossing with a non-European
race, bearer of a civilization different from the millennia-old
civilization of the [s]Aryans."[/s] [color=red]Turans[/color]
— The Second Book of Fascism[/quote]
Source :
The Fascio Newsletter. (2022, January 23). Racism In Italian
Fascism. Retrieved December 18, 2024, from Substack.com website:
HTML https://fascio.substack.com/p/italian-racism-in-fascism?utm_source=publication-search
Another fatal flaw of Fascism
[quote]"The Fascist State, on the other hand, is a popular
state, and, in that sense, a democratic State par
excellence."[/quote]
Source :
References: Gentile, Origins and Doctrine of Fascism, p28.
Dictatorship can also be ignoble too. For example, Mussolini
#Post#: 29002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trump a Fascist?
By: antihellenistic Date: December 23, 2024, 7:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Another fatal flaw of Fascism
Fascism unites people into power with state and autocratic
assistance, but the goals of people's unity is relative. So the
goals of the people's unity can be directed to enforcing the
wrong value
[quote]If relativism is to be understood as the contempt for
fixed categories, for men who believe themselves to be bearers
of an immortal objective reality, for the static who settle
down, instead of tormenting themselves with incessantly
renewing. For those who pride themselves on always being the
same as themselves, nothing is more relativistic than the
fascist mentality and activity. If relativism and universal
mobilism are equivalent, we fascists, who have always
demonstrated our unscrupulous arrogance in the face of the
nominalisms on which the bigots of the other parties nail
themselves, like bats to the rafters; we, who have had the
courage to shatter all the traditional political categories and
to call ourselves alternately aristocrats and democrats,
revolutionaries and reactionaries, proletarians and
anti-proletarians, pacifists and anti-pacifists, we are truly
the relativists par excellence and our action it refers directly
to the most current movements of the European spirit.
Our reluctance to force ourselves into a program, even with the
understanding that more than a program is a matter of simple
points of view of reference and an orientation, our position of
agnosticism in the face of the regime, having taken away from
the other parties this that we like and benefit us and having
rejected what we don't like and harms us, the mockery we make of
all the socialist and communist mortgages on the mysterious
future, constitute so many documentations of our relativistic
mentality. To move forward, we just need a point of reference:
the nation. Everything else takes care of itself.
...
From the equivalence of all opinions, the ancient skeptic
deduced that, therefore, the only thing to do was to give up
judging and acting. From the equivalence of all ideologies, all
equally fictions, modern relativism deduces that, therefore,
each has the right to create its own and to impose it with all
the energy it is capable of.
...
The Italian fascist phenomenon must appear to Tilgher as the
highest and most interesting manifestation of relativistic
philosophy; and if, as Wahinger states, relativism goes back to
Nietzsche and his Willen zur Macht, Italian fascism was and is
the most formidable creation of an individual and national ‘will
to power.’”
— Benito Mussolini, Relativism and Fascism, Il Popolo d'Italia,
22 November 1921[/quote]
Source :
The Fascio Newsletter. (2023, January 21). Why Fascists Are
Anti-Dogmatic. Retrieved December 24, 2024, from Substack.com
website:
HTML https://fascio.substack.com/p/why-fascists-are-anti-dogmatic?utm_source=publication-search
#Post#: 29003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Trump a Fascist?
By: antihellenistic Date: December 23, 2024, 10:15 pm
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Fatal Flaw of Fascist Worldview
Support slavery and colonialism for economic efficiency
[quote]Giovanni Gentile touches on this.
“It is important to notice that from an external point of view
the criterion of economic efficiency can be applied to the lower
animals as well as man. The behavior of the lower animals is
purposive and therefore ‘useful’; it is more immediately
hedonistic. Their behavior is not free but mechanical, and in
that sense necessary - which is what we mean by instinctive for
‘Instinct’ is rational behavior. The Analogy between the
instinctive behavior of Brutes and the Utilitarian activity of
man does not break down because intelligence is involved in the
latter. Intelligence is not absent even in the actions of the
lower animals.”
— Giovanni Gentile, Genesis and Structure of Society
The European imperialization of Africa indeed involved the
systematic exploitation of the continent's vast resources, which
had remained largely untapped for centuries. European powers
extracted these resources to fuel their industrial centers and
militaries, perpetuating the cycle of imperialism and further
economic growth. As a result, Africa was left with modern
technology and infrastructure in certain regions, particularly
in the east, north, and south, which played a role in financing
post-independence and subsequent economic advancements.
...
In his controversial work The Case for Colonialism, Bruce
Gilley, a professor of political science at Portland State
University, argued that colonialism had benefits for both the
conqueror and the conquered nation. Similarly, in certain
sections of Marxist-Leninism in the Stanford Encyclopedia of
Philosophy, Karl Marx acknowledged that imperialism brought
about positive social and socioeconomic changes that would not
have occurred without the influence of imperial powers. This
perspective can be observed in Marx's article on The British
Rule In India.
...
In Civilization: The Result of Compulsory Labor by George
Fitzhugh, a pro-slavery advocate, we see a similar line of
thought as expressed by figures like Engels and Hitler regarding
the role of slavery in civilization. Eric Williams, in his book
Capitalism and Slavery, argues that slavery played a pivotal
role in Europe's ascent to global economic dominance. According
to Williams, the conquest and settlement of the New World by
Europeans relied on the enslavement of millions of individuals,
whose labor generated the capital that fueled the industrial
revolution. He contends that Europe's economic progress was
built upon the foundations laid by enslaved individuals, and the
abolition of slavery was driven by economic self-interest rather
than moral convictions.
...
It should be noted that, in addition to the economic
improvements resulting from the creation of infrastructure by
colonizers, they also introduce social technologies (such as
statecraft, economic systems, and cultural norms) that benefit
the native populations of lands brought into the hegemony of the
imperial state. These social technologies would likely never
come to fruition under traditionally bound and underdeveloped
native systems, as they originate from a different civilization
and mode of thought.
Although it is common in history for conquering states to impose
their culture on and mistreat the conquered peoples, this does
not necessarily need to be the case. In fact, colonization can
not only build up the economic forces of a nation, but it can
also birth it. Take America, for example, which started as a
colony. While some may argue that America is "stolen land", the
reality is that all land is "stolen land".
...
Throughout history, many empires have employed brutal and
oppressive methods when dealing with subjugated populations.
However, it is possible to approach imperialism in a manner that
respects, protects, and even enhances the cultural traditions,
social structures, and well-being of the subordinate societies.
Therefore, the moral objections raised against imperialism based
on oppression and cultural genocide are at least debatable. It
is not inherently necessary for imperialist states to engage in
the extermination of out-groups.It is difficult to make a strong
moral argument against imperialism when the subservient nations
are legally treated in a similar manner to the core population
of the empire, with the exception of being a different group
that may face some segregation.
...
During World War II, Italy's imperialism aimed to acquire new
resources needed for industrialization, as Italy was
economically behind other European countries until the Marshall
Plan. By expanding into Balkan territories rich in resources
like iron, carbon, copper, timber, and cattle, Italy could
utilize these resources for its own industrialization while also
developing the lands from which the resources were extracted.
In Greece, Italy had plans to significantly develop its
underdeveloped steel industry, which would not only contribute
to Italy's industrialization but also benefit Greece through
increased trade and investment from a larger power. Similarly,
Italian ambitions in Africa would have led to increased
investment and trade, as regions were developed to finance
Italy's industrialization by extracting the continent's rich
resources, ultimately benefiting the overall development of
Africa. It is worth noting that Japanese imperialism, while
controversial due to its destructive nature, would have still
resulted in the expansion and development of the subjugated
lands.[/quote]
Source :
The Fascio Newsletter. (2022, January 9). Anti-Imperialism
Critiqued. Retrieved December 24, 2024, from Substack.com
website:
HTML https://fascio.substack.com/p/anti-imperialism-critiqued?utm_source=publication-search
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