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#Post#: 15211--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 18, 2022, 10:24 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=802.msg15210#msg15210
date=1660878596]
"you can just navigate to the listed verses and view them"
The point is for you to post it all in one place so that people
can just read it without navigating to the listed verses by
themselves, thus saving their time. That is what division of
labour is about.
[/quote]
Very well.
#Post#: 15277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 22, 2022, 7:57 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=802.msg15210#msg15210
date=1660878596]
"you can just navigate to the listed verses and view them"
The point is for you to post it all in one place so that people
can just read it without navigating to the listed verses by
themselves, thus saving their time. That is what division of
labour is about.
[/quote]
Done:
HTML https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ic4Tc72ajpmvWkOIjn2p2LFfO254LigdqiZcYhJ4Jws/edit?usp=sharing
#Post#: 15279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 22, 2022, 8:48 pm
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[quote]Ayat 2-3: ‘2. All praise is for God—Lord of all worlds,
3. the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 79: ‘It is not appropriate for someone who God has
blessed with the Scripture, wisdom, and prophethood to say to
people, “Worship me instead of God.” Rather, he would say, “Be
devoted to the worship of your Lord alone”—in accordance with
what these prophets read in the Scripture and what they
taught.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 100-101: ‘100. O believers! If you were to yield to
a group of those who were given the Scripture, they would turn
you back from belief to disbelief. 101. How can you disbelieve
when God’s revelations are recited to you and His Messenger is
in your midst? Whoever holds firmly to God is surely guided to
the Straight Path.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 119: ‘Here you are! You love them but they do not
love you, and you believe in all Scriptures. When they meet you
they say, “We believe.” But when alone, they bite their
fingertips in rage. Say, O Prophet, “May you die of your rage!”
Surely God knows best what is hidden in the heart.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 180: ‘And do not let those who greedily withhold
God’s bounties think it is good for them—in fact, it is bad for
them! They will be leashed by their necks on the Day of Judgment
with whatever wealth they used to withhold. And God is the sole
inheritor of the heavens and the earth. And God is All-Aware of
what you do.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 195: ‘So their Lord responded to them: “I will never
deny any of you—male or female—the reward of your deeds. Both
are equal in reward. Those who migrated or were expelled from
their homes, and were persecuted for My sake and fought and some
were martyred—I will certainly forgive their sins and admit them
into Gardens under which rivers flow, as a reward from God. And
with God is the finest reward!”’[/quote]
How are these Judaic?
(I have only reached the end of 3 so far. I may bring up more
queries as I proceed down the document.)
#Post#: 15282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 23, 2022, 6:53 am
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[quote]Ayat 2-3: ‘2. All praise is for God—Lord of all worlds,
3. the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,’[/quote]
In my view, whenever the Qur'an praises Allah as the 'Lord of
All Worlds' or 'the sole inheritor of the heavens and the
earth', that implies that He created the heavens and the earth,
which is a Judaic belief.
[quote]Ayah 79: ‘It is not appropriate for someone who God has
blessed with the Scripture, wisdom, and prophethood to say to
people, “Worship me instead of God.” Rather, he would say, “Be
devoted to the worship of your Lord alone”—in accordance with
what these prophets read in the Scripture and what they
taught.’[/quote]
The 'Scripture' mentioned includes the Torah.
[quote]Ayah 100-101: ‘100. O believers! If you were to yield to
a group of those who were given the Scripture, they would turn
you back from belief to disbelief. 101. How can you disbelieve
when God’s revelations are recited to you and His Messenger is
in your midst? Whoever holds firmly to God is surely guided to
the Straight Path.’[/quote]
See above.
[quote]Ayah 119: ‘Here you are! You love them but they do not
love you, and you believe in all Scriptures. When they meet you
they say, “We believe.” But when alone, they bite their
fingertips in rage. Say, O Prophet, “May you die of your rage!”
Surely God knows best what is hidden in the heart.’[/quote]
See above.
[quote]Ayah 180: ‘And do not let those who greedily withhold
God’s bounties think it is good for them—in fact, it is bad for
them! They will be leashed by their necks on the Day of Judgment
with whatever wealth they used to withhold. And God is the sole
inheritor of the heavens and the earth. And God is All-Aware of
what you do.’[/quote]
See first response.
[quote]Ayah 195: ‘So their Lord responded to them: “I will never
deny any of you—male or female—the reward of your deeds. Both
are equal in reward. Those who migrated or were expelled from
their homes, and were persecuted for My sake and fought and some
were martyred—I will certainly forgive their sins and admit them
into Gardens under which rivers flow, as a reward from God. And
with God is the finest reward!”’[/quote]
With the 'male and female' aside, the Qur'an is acknowledging
gender differences, which was done in the book of Genesis.
#Post#: 15285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 23, 2022, 5:00 pm
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"In my view, whenever the Qur'an praises Allah as the 'Lord of
All Worlds' or 'the sole inheritor of the heavens and the
earth', that implies that He created the heavens and the earth,
which is a Judaic belief."
It does not imply what you claim. On the contrary, "inheritor"
implies a time (prior to inheritance) when the world was not yet
ruled by Allah, which would make no sense if Allah was the
creator. Thus it actually implies that someone else (the one
from whom Allah will inherit the world) is the creator.
"The 'Scripture' mentioned includes the Torah."
Where is this explicitly stated? If it is in another verse, then
that verse could have been added, which does not invalidate this
one.
"With the 'male and female' aside, the Qur'an is acknowledging
gender differences, which was done in the book of Genesis."
I also acknowledge gender differences. You cannot cure a disease
without first acknowledging it! That verse is merely saying that
being victims of this disease will not prevent us from being
treated fairly during judgement.
Before I continue checking, would you mind removing all verses
lower down the document which you have included based on the
same reasoning under which you included the verses above, and
then posting an updated version of the document? Thanks.
#Post#: 15291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 24, 2022, 3:58 pm
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[quote]Before I continue checking, would you mind removing all
verses lower down the document which you have included based on
the same reasoning under which you included the verses above,
and then posting an updated version of the document? Thanks.
[/quote]
Done. You can use the same link I used previously; Google
automatically saves any changes made in Google Docs.
#Post#: 15294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 24, 2022, 7:29 pm
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Also, you still haven't removed the following verses which I
explicitly pointed out previously:
[quote]Ayat 2-3: ‘2. All praise is for God—Lord of all worlds,
3. the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 79: ‘It is not appropriate for someone who God has
blessed with the Scripture, wisdom, and prophethood to say to
people, “Worship me instead of God.” Rather, he would say, “Be
devoted to the worship of your Lord alone”—in accordance with
what these prophets read in the Scripture and what they
taught.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 100-101: ‘100. O believers! If you were to yield to
a group of those who were given the Scripture, they would turn
you back from belief to disbelief. 101. How can you disbelieve
when God’s revelations are recited to you and His Messenger is
in your midst? Whoever holds firmly to God is surely guided to
the Straight Path.’[/quote]
[quote]Ayah 119: ‘Here you are! You love them but they do not
love you, and you believe in all Scriptures. When they meet you
they say, “We believe.” But when alone, they bite their
fingertips in rage. Say, O Prophet, “May you die of your rage!”
Surely God knows best what is hidden in the heart.’[/quote]
I will continue checking after these have been removed.
#Post#: 15297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 24, 2022, 7:47 pm
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Done, but I just want you to know that you're allowing Judaic
passages in the Qur'an. Qur'an 3:48 says so:
[quote]Ayat 48-50: ‘48. “And God will teach him writing and
wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel, 49. and make him a messenger
to the Children of Israel to proclaim, ‘I have come to you with
a sign from your Lord: I will make for you a bird from clay,
breathe into it, and it will become a real bird—by God’s Will. I
will heal the blind and the leper and raise the dead to life—by
God’s Will. And I will prophesize what you eat and store in your
houses. Surely in this is a sign for you if you truly believe.
50. And I will confirm the Torah revealed before me and legalize
some of what had been forbidden to you. I have come to you with
a sign from your Lord, so be mindful of God and obey
me.’[/quote]
#Post#: 15299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 24, 2022, 8:08 pm
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I already explained:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/volunteer/drafting-up-a-jamia/msg15285/#msg15285
[quote]If it is in another verse, then that verse could have
been added, which does not invalidate this one.[/quote]
So I am not asking you to keep this verse:
[quote]Ayat 48-50: ‘48. “And God will teach him writing and
wisdom, the Torah [/quote]
but having removed this verse, a verse such as:
[quote]Ayah 79: ‘It is not appropriate for someone who God has
blessed with the Scripture[/quote]
is fine because there is now no verse that implies "Scripture"
refers to the Torah. Get it?
Moving on:
[quote]Ayah 44: ‘Have you O Prophet not seen those who were
given a portion of the Scriptures yet trade it for misguidance
and wish to see you deviate from the Right Path?’[/quote]
Same thing. Please remove this and all others lower down in the
document that you previously included on account of the term
"Scripture" alone.
#Post#: 15306--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drafting up a Jamia
By: christianbethel Date: August 25, 2022, 8:39 am
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[quote]Same thing. Please remove this and all others lower down
in the document that you previously included on account of the
term "Scripture" alone.[/quote]
Done.
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