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#Post#: 30935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: September 10, 2025, 9:04 pm
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZIQFHHw2Ss
HTML https://smallimg.pngkey.com/png/small/129-1297667_clip-free-stock-collection-of-free-failing-clipart.png
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/how-old-is-chinese-civilization/msg20274/#msg20274
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/how-old-is-chinese-civilization/msg30211/#msg30211
#Post#: 31096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: rp
Date: October 2, 2025, 6:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
www.youtube.com/shorts/nFtKY0scGII?si=KgKhUx4jME8d2my-
#Post#: 31102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: October 2, 2025, 9:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, the Australian accent is not particularly highly
regarded among English-speakers to begin with. What we should be
promoting is folkish pride in versions of English developed by
formerly colonized populations. For example:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nML5VLSfjAk
Woke comments:
--- Quote ---
> Singlish is a singaporean's badge of honour. Travelling
overseas and hearing singlish in a group from another tour
immediately brings every singaporean together instantly!
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> The "efficient, short-cut" of Singlish is actually Chinese,
or Malay, speech structure translated into English words.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 31103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: rp
Date: October 2, 2025, 9:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"To be fair, the Australian accent is not particularly highly
regarded among English-speakers to begin with."
Are you sure? "Whites" love English accents from other "White"
countries. And of course "White" preference is amplified as
"hip" and "cool" through the Jewish owned media/Hollywood.
#Post#: 31104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: October 2, 2025, 11:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Are you sure?"
I have of course heard Australians praise their own accent. I
haven't heard much praise of it by anyone else. My impression is
that it is mainly joke material:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrjwm0O1dDY
#Post#: 31744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 22, 2025, 7:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/12/13/WWLXBPBL5FB77FNKLDP6LYGVQI/
--- Quote ---
> President Lee Jae-myung expressed agreement on the 12th with
the need to strengthen Chinese character education
--- End Quote ---
I agree. (Re-instituting Hanja would also presumably increase
the global ratio of users of non-simplified form Chinese
characters compared to simplified form, which is always good
news.)
Background:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_on_the_use_of_Korean_mixed_script
--- Quote ---
> In November 1894, King Gojong declared that all texts in the
Korean code of law should be written primarily in Hangul
--- End Quote ---
Eurocentrist Gojong also looked and dressed like what we would
expect:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Gojong_of_the_Korean_Empire_02.jpg/500px-Gojong_of_the_Korean_Empire_02.jpg
--- Quote ---
> Functional illiteracy concerns with reading skills above the
basic level necessary to manage daily life and employment. It is
different from pure illiteracy, the measure discussed above,
which is the inability to read at all. Some Korean education
experts, including those in favor of Hangul-Hanja mixed script,
have attributed the high rate of functional illiteracy to the
lack of Hanja education in the Korean public education system.
This claim is somewhat substantiated by the fact that 60-70% of
the Korean vocabulary is derived from Hanja,[9] many of which
appear more often in technical fields.
> In a 2005 study, South Korean adults had the highest rate of
functional illiteracy out of 22 OECD member states surveyed with
a rate of 38%, much higher than the average of 22%.[10] Almost
three in four Korean adults had difficulty reading information
necessary for their occupation or skill.
> Another Korean poll reports that 58% of college-aged Koreans,
most of whom have never been taught Hanja, have felt
inconvenienced by their lack of knowledge of Hanja at some point
in their lives.[11]
> A 2023 study by the Programme for the International Assessment
of Adult Competencies (PIAAC) indicated that 31% of Koreans are
not able to read and understand text above a basic level, and
only 32% are able to read at level 3 or above. For reference,
Japan, which continues to mix Kanji in its everyday orthography,
has only 11% of its population be unable to read above a basic
level, and 66% of Japanese adults can read at level 3 or
above.[12] There is a notable disparity when broken down by age,
particularly between younger generations and older generations,
with older generations struggling more. However, the results are
largely in line with the results from the 2011/2012 edition of
the study,[13] indicating that Korean adults' literacy skills
are deteriorating once they leave school. Part of this can be
attributed to the lack of regular Chinese character education in
Korean schools.
> ...
> It is estimated that up to 60%[14] of the Korean vocabulary is
composed of Sino-Korean words; according to these estimates,
native Korean words form a minority of the vocabulary in the
spoken Korean language.
> Each character of Hanja conveys more information than each
letter of Hangul as there are still many more Hanja characters
than Hangul letters. The fact that Hanja conveys more
information than Hangul has ramifications in the semantic
meaning of each character. The word "일", for example, is
composed of three Hangul letters ㅇ, ㅣ, and
ㄹ. In only three letters, there is much ambiguity over
the meaning of the Hangul block, as "일" could mean "one"
(一) or "day" (日) in Sino-Korean vocabulary or a
native Korean word for "work" (일). Writing the Hanja
makes it clear which "일" is in question.
> Similarly, when comparing the words 전부;
全部; lit. 'entirety' and 전쟁;
戰爭; lit. 'war', the "전" in both words
describe the pronunciation of two completely different Hanja
characters with different meanings.
> As another example, Latin roots in the English language have
very few homonyms. For example, words that have pyro- as a root
will almost always mean fire. However, the Sino-Korean root for
fire, 화 (火), shares the same Hangul spelling with
many other roots.[c] As a result, many words as a whole are
spelled identically in Hangul but vary widely in meaning.[d] The
sheer number of homonyms causes severe limitations to vocabulary
acquisition when homophonous words are being transcribed
entirely phonetically, and purely phonetic transcription reduces
understanding and depth of knowledge of Sino-Korean words.
> Many Korean speakers cannot tell apart Sino-Korean words from
“pure” Korean words, many Sino-Korean words are of Korean
coinage, and many so-called “pure” Korean words were originally
Sino-Korean words.[citation needed]
> There is a large quantity of Sino-Korean words that are
unique/exclusive to Korean or differ drastically in usage in
comparison to Chinese or Japanese.
> In addition to Sino-Korean words only used in Korean, many
native Korean words are suggested to have originated from
Sino-Korean words themselves, whose pronunciations have since
deviated from their Hanja pronunciation. For instance, the word
kimchi (김치) from 沈菜
(침채) has its origins in a Hanja word.
> The use of Hanja allows easier interpretation of complex
terms, as it is more helpful for the reader to assume an unknown
vocabulary in context.[e]
> Attempts to completely replace Hanja with native words have
been made before; these attempts have ultimately returned to the
use of Sino-Korean vocabulary.[15]
--- End Quote ---
So why oppose Hanja?
--- Quote ---
> Supporters of Hangul exclusivity argue that mixed script is an
invention that was made and forced upon the Korean people by the
Japanese during World War II.
--- End Quote ---
It is logically impossible to "force" mixed script. Mixed script
simply means both Hanja and Hangul are permitted, therefore
individual writers can still write in 100% Hangul if that is
what they want to do, just as other individual writers can write
in 100% Hanja, or any combination in between.
#Post#: 31745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: Zhang Caizhi
Date: December 22, 2025, 9:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Simplified Chinese characters are initiated by Mao Zedong. The
first round in 1956 and the second round in 1964 successfully
replaced non-simplified in Mainland.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Character_Simplification_Scheme
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_List_of_Simplified_Chinese_Characters
It's the further round in 1975 post-Cultural Revolution that got
retracted in 1986.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_round_of_simplified_Chinese_characters
#Post#: 31746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: Zhang Caizhi
Date: December 22, 2025, 10:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Kanji also got simplified.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_script_reform
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinjitai
#Post#: 31749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 22, 2025, 11:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It is worth comparing:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Shinjitai_and_Simplified_characters
--- Quote ---
> Different simplifications in both languages
>
> (Order: Kyūjitai / traditional Chinese - simplified
Chinese - shinjitai)
> 兩-两-両, 惡-恶-悪,
單-单-単, 嚴-严-厳,
傳-传-伝, 價-价-価,
兒-儿-児, 變-变-変,
圓-圆-円, 勞-劳-労,
壓-压-圧, 營-营-営,
團-团-団, 圖-图-図,
圍-围-囲, 賣-卖-売,
鹽-盐-塩, 處-处-処,
據-据-拠, 實-实-実,
專-专-専, 縣-县-県,
廣-广-広, 應-应-応,
歸-归-帰, 戰-战-戦,
擴-扩-拡, 擧-举-挙,
從-从-従, 戲-戏-戯,
對-对-対, 榮-荣-栄,
櫻-樱-桜, 檢-检-検,
樂-乐-楽, 樣-样-様,
權-权-権, 產-产-産,
氣-气-気, 濟-济-済,
齋-斋-斎, 滿-满-満,
帶-带-帯, 殼-壳-殻,
歷-历-歴, 曆-历-暦,
莊-庄-荘, 歲-岁-歳,
肅-肃-粛, 龍-龙-竜,
龜-龟-亀, 靈-灵-霊,
麵-面-麺, 燒-烧-焼,
發-发-発, 顯-显-顕,
絲-丝-糸, 經-经-経,
髮-发-髪, 繪-绘-絵,
續-续-続, 總-总-総,
練-练-練, 綠-绿-緑,
緣-缘-縁, 繩-绳-縄,
壞-坏-壊, 絕-绝-絶,
繼-继-継, 縱-纵-縦,
纖-纤-繊, 腦-脑-脳,
臟-脏-臓, 著-着-著,
藥-药-薬, 覺-觉-覚,
覽-览-覧, 頰-颊-頬,
觀-观-観, 譯-译-訳,
證-证-証, 讀-读-読,
說-说-説, 讓-让-譲,
豐-丰-豊, 贊-赞-賛,
轉-转-転, 輕-轻-軽,
邊-边-辺, 遞-递-逓,
遲-迟-遅, 鄕-乡-郷,
鐵-铁-鉄, 鑛/礦-矿-鉱,
錢-钱-銭, 鑒-鉴-鑑,
銳-锐-鋭, 錄-录-録,
藝-艺-芸, 鑄-铸-鋳,
鍊-炼-錬, 關-关-関,
險-险-険, 隱-隐-隠,
雜-杂-雑, 顏-颜-顔,
驛-驿-駅, 驅-驱-駆,
驗-验-験, 齒-齿-歯,
聽-听-聴, 廳-厅-庁,
擊-击-撃,
辯-辩-弁,濱-滨-浜,
澀-涩-渋,[note 1] 濾-滤-沪
--- End Quote ---
In all cases I aesthetically prefer the ancient version over
either modern version, but between only the two modern versions
I consider less damage to the ancient aesthetic to have occurred
under shinjitai than under the PRC's simplified form.
#Post#: 32620--------------------------------------------------
Re: Linguistic Decolonization
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: May 15, 2026, 10:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKDxdciwufA
--- Quote ---
> This is the 1961 Kurosawa classic, Yojimbo. Its title is
written in Kanji, meaning "bodyguard".
> 0:088 secondsWhen it was brought to China, audiences simply
read the Kanji in Chinese as "Yong Xin Bang".
--- End Quote ---
No problem here.
--- Quote ---
> Now, this is John Woo's 2008 epic, Red Cliff, or in Chinese,
"Chi Bi".
> 0:2929 secondsWhen it was distributed in Japan, the
distributor saw those Kanji and thought, "Damn, that looks epic
and historical." "Let's call it... Reddo Kurifu (Red Cliff)."
> 0:3838 secondsAnd that just sums up the whole mess
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://smallimg.pngkey.com/png/small/129-1297667_clip-free-stock-collection-of-free-failing-clipart.png
--- Quote ---
> A friend once complained to me about the way Japan pronounces
Chinese names.
> 0:5454 secondsFor example, this guy from The Apothecary
Diaries is called Jinshi, but those kanji read Ren Shi in
Chinese.
> 1:021 minute, 2 secondsThis dude from Kingdom is called Eisei,
but he's a real historical figure in China, and is called Ying
Zheng in Mandarin.
--- End Quote ---
Jinshi and Eisei are examples of how pre-Westernized Japanese
pronounced Chinese names: by directly converting each character
into its pre-existing Japanese pronounction:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On%27yomi
It is post-Westernization that Japanese started pronouncing
Chinese names using a phoneticized version of the Chinese
pronounciation.
--- Quote ---
> do you call him Kimura Takuya, or do you just read his name as
"Mucun Tuozai"?
--- End Quote ---
Exactly. Chinese to this day mostly still use pre-existing
Chinese pronounciations of the characters, thereby
de-emphasizing Kimura's foreignness. Ironically, therefore, your
friend in the previous paragraph is in effect demanding Japanese
emphasize Chinese foreignness. Is your friend an identitarian?
(See similar behaviour in comment below.)
--- Quote ---
> So this is not Kaneshiro Takeshi. This is Jincheng Wu. This
city is not Osaka, it's Daban.
--- End Quote ---
This is linguistic folkism.
--- Quote ---
> Here is Tokyo Story and Ugetsu, pronounced Tokyo Monogatari
and Ugetsu Monogatari respectively.
> 8:338 minutes, 33 secondsDespite the term Monogatari means
nothing in Chinese, it's just "Thing" and "Speak", the titles
remained unchanged when shown in China.
> 8:428 minutes, 42 secondsAnd yet, through repeated exposure
to Japanese media, Chinese audiences grew familiar with the word
without it truly becoming a loanword.
--- End Quote ---
If you speak about a thing, you are telling a story. Duh! So it
is inaccurate to say it "means nothing in Chinese". Some are
just too inferior to figure out the meaning.
--- Quote ---
> Stranger Things in Chinese uses the term to invoke a Japanese
campus-horror atmosphere.
> 9:059 minutes, 5 secondsIt's a weird choice, but it works.
--- End Quote ---
8)
--- Quote ---
> With film distribution becoming more professional, proper
localization is now the norm.
> 9:189 minutes, 18 secondsShoplifters, pronounced "Manbiki
Kazoku" in Japanese, is properly translated as "The Thieving
Family" in Chinese. swapping the Japanese manbiki for its
Chinese equivalent.
--- End Quote ---
I actually prefer the older approach, but at least this approach
is still respectable.
--- Quote ---
> Your Name similarly did not carry over its Kanji title,
despite doing the "Like a Dragon" thing, and calling it "Jun Zhi
Ming" would actually make sense, but it sounds strangely
archaic.
--- End Quote ---
That's the point!
--- Quote ---
> This is Teresa Teng, a singer, a cultural icon, and one of the
most beloved and influential figures in the Chinese-speaking
world.
--- End Quote ---
Note subhuman face shape. Also:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Teng
--- Quote ---
> Partner
--- End Quote ---
::)
But I digress. Back to the video:
--- Quote ---
> This is Teresa's Chinese name, Teng Li-Chun. Now, I want you
to take a wild guess as to how her name is pronounced in Japan.
> 10:4110 minutes, 41 secondsTou Re Kun, right? On'yomi? It's
"Teresa Ten".
> 10:4710 minutes, 47 secondsMotherf- (Beep) Yeah, it's like
Japan is too afraid to deal with Chinese, so they just hired
English as the middleman.
--- End Quote ---
This is the problem.
--- Quote ---
> 10:5710 minutes, 57 secondsSuch is the convention: a majority
of the time, Chinese titles are written out in Katakana... In
English.
> 11:0411 minutes, 4 secondsThe Hong Kong action flick "A Gai
Waak" was accurately translated as Project A in English. Japan
then took the English name and released it as "Purojekuto Ee".
> 11:1411 minutes, 14 secondsThe same applies to Police Story,
which is just called "Porisu Sutori".
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://smallimg.pngkey.com/png/small/129-1297667_clip-free-stock-collection-of-free-failing-clipart.png
--- Quote ---
> 11:2111 minutes, 21 secondsWhy? Because calling it "Keikaku
Ee" and "Keisatsu Monogatari" would be weird.
--- End Quote ---
No, it would be folkish.
--- Quote ---
> Perhaps because the words are new, or maybe the West is
perceived as more modern, English loanwords, and by extension,
Katakana titles, carry a sense of modernity and
internationality.
--- End Quote ---
Which should be an argument against using such titles.
--- Quote ---
> 12:1512 minutes, 15 secondsAs both Project A and Police Story
are Gendai-geki, English titles better fit their more
westernized settings.
> 12:2212 minutes, 22 secondsAnd before you say anything, the
cutoff between Jidai and Gendai is the Meiji Restoration.
--- End Quote ---
Then explain this, an actual Japanese movie (bad, by the way)
set in pre-Meiji times with a katakana English title:
HTML https://i.mydramalist.com/jO1Ey_4f.jpg
No, it is just straight-up Eurocentrism period (if you actually
watch the movie you will also see it).
--- Quote ---
> Conversely, Drunken Master II was released as "Suiken Tsu" in
Japan.
--- End Quote ---
Much better.
--- Quote ---
> As pointed out in the intro: Why the f*ck is Red Cliff in
English?
> 13:0313 minutes, 3 secondsWell, my guess is Sekiheki felt too
generic and old-timey.
> 13:0713 minutes, 7 secondsAn English title, to a Japanese
audience just sounds more international and exciting, as if a
movie has made its way around the world before arriving on their
shores.
--- End Quote ---
This is how Eurocentrists think.
--- Quote ---
> 13:3313 minutes, 33 seconds"Fa Yeung Nin Wah" in Cantonese is
read directly as Kayou Nenka in Japanese.
> 13:3913 minutes, 39 secondsThe infuriating part is, I can feel
that it works.
--- End Quote ---
Why is it infuriating? (Also, this movie is still bad no matter
how the title is written.)
--- Quote ---
> 13:4813 minutes, 48 secondsCrouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a
word-for-word translation of a Chinese idiom, meaning masters
who go unnoticed.
> 13:5613 minutes, 56 secondsApparently that was too much for
Japan, because the distributor renamed it: Guriin Desutinii--
English, it's always English!
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://smallimg.pngkey.com/png/small/129-1297667_clip-free-stock-collection-of-free-failing-clipart.png
--- Quote ---
> While Chinese people read Japanese city names as if it's
written in Chinese.
> 14:1014 minutes, 10 secondsJapanese people read Chinese city
names in English. Surprise, surprise.
> 14:1414 minutes, 14 secondsHong Kong, for example, is
pronounced "Hon Kon".
--- End Quote ---
Conclusion: Japan is more linguistically colonized.
Anti-folkist comments:
--- Quote ---
> I recently finished watching the anime of Souten no Ken
(蒼天の拳) or Fist of the Blue Sky, a
direct prequel to Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star, and the
translation barrier is messy.
>
> Most of the characters are Chinese, and the setting is 1930s
Shanghai, yet all of these characters are referred to and
mentioned audibly by their Japanese names, so the protagonist's
gang, the Honghua Hui (紅華會) is named the
Kokakai (紅華会), and people like Zhāng
Tàiyán (張 太炎), Tian Xuéfāng
(田學芳) and the main character's love
interest Pān Yùlíng (潘 玉玲) are instead
referred to as their "Japanese dub names" in both the manga and
anime (Zhang is Chō Taien, Tian is Den Gakuhō, and
Yuling is Han Gyokurei).
--- End Quote ---
This is not messy. This is exactly the way it should be. This
commenter is an identitarian.
--- Quote ---
> I am Zhang Huiyao in Mandarin, in literal Japanese it is Cho
Ki-yo that sounds like a children snack. Naaah, I'll let them
butcher my real international name.
--- End Quote ---
You are an identitarian, who should therefore be prohibited from
reproducing.
Folkist comments:
--- Quote ---
> Japanese pronouncing Chinese name phonetically is due to
Koreans and Chinese living in Japan. The default was to
pronounce their names the Japanese way. But Koreans and Chinese
living in Japan wanted their names to be pronounced the way it's
pronounce in their own language due to cultural identity.
--- End Quote ---
Identitarians ruin everything they touch.
--- Quote ---
> People trying so hard to claim onyomi as completely japanese.
It's almost entirely predictable if you know the hakka
pronunciation. That's how i can easily remember the japanese
pronunciation. Japan imported not just words but ideas culture
and concepts from china and to claim it's made in japan is
ridiculous. Actually they are the stalward of the chinese
civilisation and culture that got watered down by the qing era,
and in the past the japanese were proud to carry over that
torch.
--- End Quote ---
This is what we need to get back to.
--- Quote ---
> I remember asking a Japanese classmate once about how he
pronounce Chinese cities. 东京 is Tokyo, so in
theory 北京 should be Pekyo but he said they just
call it Pekin.
--- End Quote ---
:(
--- Quote ---
> There are counter examples. 廣/広州 is
often pronounced Kōshū for example.
--- End Quote ---
:)
--- Quote ---
> During the Japanese occupation of Hong Kong, place names are
pronounced in onyomi as well as kunyomi according to Wikipedia.
Japanese only later changed to the English pronunciations. e.g.
香港仔 Aberdeen was briefly renamed as
元港 (motominato, original port).
銅鑼灣 Causeway Bay was pronounced as Dorawan,
now Kousuwei-Bei or by estimated Cantonese reading katakana.
--- End Quote ---
:)
--- Quote ---
> Fun fact: unlike Japanese, in Vietnamese Chinese people's
names are almost always pronounced according to their
Sino-Vietnamese readings (fortunately), so Andy Lau is known as
Lưu Đức Hoa over there. Thank god!
--- End Quote ---
:)
--- Quote ---
> The true crime, the ridiculous, petty and cynical crime is
render the movie title as katakana of the English literal
translation of the Chinese title.
--- End Quote ---
Exactly!
--- Quote ---
> Found few couple examples of taiwanese movies that don't do
this: A Summer at Grandpa's in Japanese is called
冬冬の夏休み very close to
the chinese 冬冬的假期, A Brighter
Summer Day in japanese is called
牯嶺街少年殺人事件
(クーリンチェしょうねんさつじんじけん)
same as the chinese name, A City of Sadness is also the same as
the chinese 悲情城市.
--- End Quote ---
My personal favourite example:
[img]
HTML https://static.mercdn.net/item/detail/orig/photos/m51284248120_1.jpg?1765451093[/img]
Unfortunately they still phoneticized the actors'/producer's
names.....
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