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#Post#: 5256--------------------------------------------------
Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: guest5 Date: April 3, 2021, 7:25 pm
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[quote]Catharism (/ˈkæθərɪzəm/; from
the Greek: καθαροί, katharoi,
"the pure [ones]")[1][2] was a Christian dualist or Gnostic
movement between the 12th and 14th centuries which thrived in
Southern Europe, particularly in northern Italy and southern
France. Followers were described as Cathars and referred to
themselves as Good Christians, and are now mainly remembered for
a prolonged period of persecution by the Catholic Church, which
did not recognize their unorthodox Christianity. Catharism
arrived in Western Europe in the Languedoc region of France in
the 11th century. The adherents were sometimes referred to as
Albigensians, after the city Albi in southern France where the
movement first took hold.[3] The belief may have originated in
the Byzantine Empire. Catharism was initially taught by ascetic
leaders who set few guidelines and so some Catharist practices
and beliefs varied by region and over time. The Catholic Church
denounced its practices, including the consolamentum ritual by
which Cathar individuals were baptised and raised to the status
of "perfect".[4]
Catharism was greatly influenced by the Bogomils of the First
Bulgarian Empire,[5] and may have also had roots in the
Paulician movement in Armenia and eastern Byzantine Anatolia
through Paulicians resettled in Thrace (Philipoupolis). Though
the term Cathar (/ˈkæθɑːr/) has been used
for centuries to identify the movement, whether it identified
itself with the name is debated.[6] In Cathar texts, the terms
Good Men (Bons Hommes), Good Women (Bonnes Femmes), or Good
Christians (Bons Chrétiens) are the common terms of
self-identification.[7]
The idea of two gods or deistic principles, one good and the
other evil, was a point of criticism asserted by the Catholic
church against Cathar beliefs. The Catholic church asserted this
was antithetical to monotheism, a fundamental principle that
there is only one God, who created all things visible and
invisible.[8] Cathars believed that the good God was the God of
the New Testament, creator of the spiritual realm, whereas the
evil God was the God of the Old Testament, creator of the
physical world whom many Cathars identified as Satan. Cathars
believed human spirits were the sexless spirits of angels
trapped in the material realm of the evil god, destined to be
reincarnated until they achieved salvation through the
consolamentum, a form of baptism performed when death is
imminent, when they would return to the good God.[9]
From the beginning of his reign, Pope Innocent III attempted to
end Catharism by sending missionaries and by persuading the
local authorities to act against them. In 1208, Pierre de
Castelnau, Innocent's papal legate, was murdered while returning
to Rome after excommunicating Count Raymond VI of Toulouse, who,
in his view, was too lenient with the Cathars.[10] Pope Innocent
III then abandoned the option of sending Catholic missionaries
and jurists, declared Pierre de Castelnau a martyr and launched
the Albigensian Crusade in 1209. The Crusade ended in 1229 with
the defeat of the Cathars. Catharism underwent persecution by
the Medieval Inquisition, which succeeded in eradicating it by
1350.
There is academic controversy about whether Catharism was an
organized movement or rather a construct of the medieval Church,
which alleged the existence of a heretical group. The lack of
any central organization among Cathars, regional differences in
beliefs and practices as well as the lack of sources from the
Cathars themselves has prompted some scholars to question
whether Catharism existed. Other scholars say that there is
evidence of the existence of Catharism, and also evidence that
the threat of it was exaggerated by its persecutors in the
Church.[11][12] [/quote]
[quote]Cosmology
Cathar cosmology identified two twin, opposing deities. The
first was a good God, portrayed in the New Testament and creator
of the spirit, while the second was an evil God, depicted in the
Old Testament and creator of matter and the physical world.[22]
The latter, often called Rex Mundi ("King of the World"),[23]
was identified as the God of Judaism,[22] and was also either
conflated with Satan or considered Satan's father, creator or
seducer.[5] They addressed the problem of evil by stating that
the good God's power to do good was limited by the evil God's
works and vice versa.[24]
However, those beliefs were far from unanimous. Some Cathar
communities believed in a mitigated dualism similar to their
Bogomil predecessors, stating that the evil god, Satan, had
previously been the true God's servant before rebelling against
him.[24] Others, likely a majority over time given the influence
reflected on the Book of the Two Principles,[25] believed in an
absolute dualism, where the two gods were twin entities of the
same power and importance.[24]
All visible matter, including the human body, was created or
crafted by this Rex Mundi; matter was therefore tainted with
sin. Under this view, humans were actually angels seduced by
Satan before a war in heaven against the army of Michael, after
which they would have been forced to spend an eternity trapped
in the evil God's material realm.[5] The Cathars taught that to
regain angelic status one had to renounce the material self
completely. Until one was prepared to do so, they would be stuck
in a cycle of reincarnation, condemned to live on the corrupt
Earth.[26]
Zoé Oldenbourg compared the Cathars to "Western Buddhists"
because she considered that their view of the doctrine of
"resurrection" taught by Christ was similar to the Buddhist
doctrine of rebirth.[/quote]
[quote]Social relationships
Killing was abhorrent to the Cathars. Consequently, abstention
from all animal food (sometimes exempting fish) was enjoined of
the Perfecti. The Perfecti avoided eating anything considered to
be a by-product of sexual reproduction.[39] War and capital
punishment were also condemned—an abnormality in Medieval
Europe. In a world where few could read, their rejection of
oath-taking marked them as rebels against social order.
To the Cathars, reproduction was a moral evil to be avoided, as
it continued the chain of reincarnation and suffering in the
material world. It was claimed by their opponents that, given
this loathing for procreation, they generally resorted to
sodomy.[clarification needed] Such was the situation that a
charge of heresy leveled against a suspected Cathar was usually
dismissed if the accused could show he was legally married.
When Bishop Fulk of Toulouse, a key leader of the anti-Cathar
persecutions, excoriated the Languedoc Knights for not pursuing
the heretics more diligently, he received the reply, "We cannot.
We have been reared in their midst. We have relatives among them
and we see them living lives of perfection."[43] [/quote]
[quote]Role of women and sex
Catharism has been seen as giving women the greatest
opportunities for independent action since women were found as
being believers as well as Perfecti, who were able to administer
the sacrament of the consolamentum.[49]
Cathars believed that one would be repeatedly reincarnated until
one commits to the self-denial of the material world. A man
could be reincarnated as a woman and vice versa.[50] The spirit
was of utmost importance to the Cathars and was described as
being immaterial and sexless.[50] Because of this belief, the
Cathars saw women as equally capable of being spiritual
leaders.[51]
Women accused of being heretics in early medieval Christianity
included those labeled Gnostics, Cathars, and, later, the
Beguines, as well as several other groups that were sometimes
"tortured and executed".[52] Cathars, like the Gnostics who
preceded them, assigned more importance to the role of Mary
Magdalene in the spread of early Christianity than the church
previously did. Her vital role as a teacher contributed to the
Cathar belief that women could serve as spiritual leaders. Women
were found to be included in the Perfecti in significant
numbers, with numerous receiving the consolamentum after being
widowed.[49] Having reverence for the Gospel of John, the
Cathars saw Mary Magdalene as perhaps even more important than
Saint Peter, the founder of the church.[53]
Catharism attracted numerous women with the promise of a
leadership role that the Catholic Church did not allow.[9]
Catharism let women become a perfect.[54] These female perfects
were required to adhere to a strict and ascetic lifestyle, but
were still able to have their own houses.[55] Although many
women found something attractive in Catharism, not all found its
teachings convincing. A notable example is Hildegard of Bingen,
who in 1163 gave a rousing exhortation against the Cathars in
Cologne. During this discourse, Hildegard announced God's
eternal damnation on all who accepted Cathar beliefs.[56]
While women perfects rarely traveled to preach the faith, they
still played a vital role in the spreading of the Catharism by
establishing group homes for women.[57] Though it was extremely
uncommon, there were isolated cases of female Cathars leaving
their homes to spread the faith.[58] In Cathar communal homes
(ostals), women were educated in the faith, and these women
would go on to bear children who would then also become
believers. Through this pattern the faith grew exponentially
through the efforts of women as each generation passed.[57]
Despite women having a role in the growing of the faith,
Catharism was not completely equal, for example the belief that
one's last incarnation had to be experienced as a man to break
the cycle.[43] This belief was inspired by later French Cathars,
who taught that women must be reborn as men in order to achieve
salvation.[9] Another example was that the sexual allure of
women impeded man's ability to reject the material world.[43]
Toward the end of the Cathar movement, Catharism became less
equal and started the practice of excluding women perfects.[9]
However, this trend remained limited. (Later Italian perfects
still included women.[9]) [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
HTML https://www.cathar.inf
o/pics/origins.jpg
HTML https://themiddleagesportfolio.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/7/4/13743454/8821377_orig.jpg
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/16/55/ea165520bb3d4435c7f77ad5d00a878a.png
#Post#: 6710--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: rp Date: May 25, 2021, 10:24 pm
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Here is an excerpt from a paper I wrote 2 years ago for my
philosophy class:
[quote]
Regarding the problem of “evil”, I myself am not a theist in the
sense that I do not believe in an omnibenevolent creator God. As
illustrated in “The ‘Inductive’ Argument from Evil”, there are
logical flaws with belief in God. Most theists believe that God
is omnipotent as well as omnibenevolent, so why is it that there
is so much evil in the world? However, one must remember that
the concept of “evil” itself is a moral one as explained by
Koukl, so it would be incorrect to assume that these morals come
from a place of emptiness. So there appears to be a
contradiction, where God is needed to provide a logical
explanation for absolute moral concepts (i.e. evil), but also is
not capable of stopping evil. I deduce that there may be an
explanation for this contradiction; that God may indeed exist,
but he is far from the omnibenevolent being that many theists
believe him to be. God’s failure to stop evil from occurring
despite wielding omnipotent power over his creation can be
construed as God himself being evil. This view is not new;
Gnostic Christians, for example, conceive of a creator God in
the same way that mainline Christians do, but view him as the
Devil rather than an omnibenevolent being. Moreover, the very
concept of “God” need not be that of the stereotypical
caricature of a bearded man in the sky but could alternatively
be interpreted as a metaphysical entity that is the cause of
evil. This metaphysical entity could be defined as the force
that governs the material world, or the “Demiurge” as defined in
Gnostic terminology. This “Demiurge” is the cause of all things
wrong with the material world that stem from natural causes such
as natural disasters, overpopulation, and of course, violence,
which stems from the will to survive in a harsh environment.
Therefore, it can be said that I accept the existence of a
“God”, but my perception of him is different from that of most
theists. I view the material world as the epitome of evil for
holding humankind imprisoned in a state of perpetual slavery,
and that the only way to end this would be to seek salvation in
the spiritual world that exists separate from the material
world.
[/quote]
The philosophy professor was Jewish BTW. Just thought I should
share this.
#Post#: 6716--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 26, 2021, 12:08 am
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[quote]This “Demiurge” is the cause of all things wrong with the
material world that stem from natural causes[/quote]
I would add that "all things wrong" does not only include
unpleasant experiences, but also many pleasant experiences that
hence persuade people to not want to transcend material
existence (despite the unpleasant experiences). If the material
world consisted only of unpleasant stuff, there would be plenty
of motivation to escape. The Demiurge's cunning is to provide
enough pleasant stuff to make it harder for this motivation to
ever reach critical mass.
Of course, the pleasure is mostly for those in power. The
Demiurge certainly has no problem with those without power (e.g.
non-humans) experiencing an existence of nothing but continuous
torment (e.g. in meat/egg/milk/fur/etc. factories), because even
if they are motivated to escape, humans have already attained
enough power over them to physically make it impossible for them
to do so (e.g. forced reproduction).
[quote]violence, which stems from the will to survive in a harsh
environment.[/quote]
Not all violence stems from the will to survive in a harsh
environment. If this were the case, those whose survival
prospects are already secure should never initiate violence. In
reality, however, much violence is initiated by the most
powerful (whose survival is the most secured)
[quote]Therefore, it can be said that I accept the existence of
a “God”, but my perception of him is different from that of most
theists[/quote]
Etymologically, "theism" also comes from the same root you
mentioned here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/turanian-diffusion/msg6715/#new
[quote]The PIE word for sky father is "dyaus pitr".[/quote]
So if we believe this guy can be equated with the Demiurge, it
would be accurate to call us anti-theists.
In contrast:
HTML https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=god
[quote]Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God;
image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan
(source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High
German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), which is of
uncertain origin; perhaps from PIE *ghut- "that which is
invoked"[/quote]
Unlike the Demiurge whose existence is inferred from the
material world, God is someone whom we must postulate from
within with no supporting evidence that can be found in the
material world.
I also posted a music video for you here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/facial-turanism/msg6717/#msg6717
#Post#: 6720--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: rp Date: May 26, 2021, 12:50 am
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"I would add that "all things wrong" does not only include
unpleasant experiences, but also many pleasant experiences that
hence persuade people to not want to transcend material
existence (despite the unpleasant experiences). "
I agree. I was more or less referring to all instances of
initiated violence when using this phrase. Of course I wouldn't
expect a Jew to honestly attempt to understand this, hence why I
did not include it in my paper.
"Unlike the Demiurge whose existence is inferred from the
material world, God is someone whom we must postulate from
within with no supporting evidence that can be found in the
material world"
Perhaps the word "intuition" also derives from this concept?
HTML https://www.etymonline.com/word/intuition
[quote]"insight, direct or immediate cognition, spiritual
perception,"originally theological,[/quote]
Proceeding logically from this, we could say the concept of a
"Creator God" itself is an oxymoron!
#Post#: 6728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: rp Date: May 26, 2021, 11:18 am
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"Not all violence stems from the will to survive in a harsh
environment. If this were the case, those whose survival
prospects are already secure should never initiate violence. In
reality, however, much violence is initiated by the most
powerful (whose survival is the most secured)"
I see. To support your point, we could take the mythical Garden
of Eden, for example, which corresponds with the Natuffian
culture where there was an abundance of wild crops such that
people no longer needed to hunt. Yet only the Cainites wanted to
continue this non-violent lifestyle by becoming full-time
cultivators, whereas the Sethites did not as they instead took
up herding.
So the Sethites, despite living in a relatively non-harsh
environment, chose to do violence anyway. One could explain this
away by pointing out how agricultural work involves more labor
than herding, and that the Sethites were merely choosing the
less laborious occupation out of expedience, but this would beg
the question: why did the Cainites choose the more laborious
occupation?
Conversely, why did the Sethites prioritize reducing labor in
the first place, even at the expense of non-human lives? Perhaps
it was the will to survive itself that precluded the Sethites
from having the ethical judgment to avoid violence, thus causing
them to view non-humans as mere expedient tools for human
survival i.e. Goys?
So violence is caused not only by the will to survive in a harsh
environment but rather by the will to survive itself for its own
sake.
BONUS VIDEO:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZcTCijizI
[quote]
Mary: "Why are you alive?"
John: "I'm alive.. I live.. to safeguard the continuity of this
great society. To serve Libria."
Mary: "It's circular. You exist to continue your existence.
What's the point?"
[/quote]
More about Equillibrium:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_(film)#Plot
[quote]Libria, a totalitarian city-state established by
survivors of World War III, blames human emotion as the cause
for the war. Any activity or object that stimulates emotion is
strictly forbidden. Those in violation are labelled "Sense
Offenders" and sentenced to death. The population is forced to
take a daily injection of "Prozium II" to suppress emotion.
Libria is governed by the Tetragrammaton Council, led by
"Father", who communicates propaganda through giant video
screens throughout the city. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton
[quote]The Tetragrammaton
(/ˌtɛtrəˈɡræmətɒn/) or
Tetragram (from Greek
τετραγράμμ^
5;τον,
meaning "[consisting of] four letters") is the four-letter
Hebrew word יהוה‎ (transliterated
as YHWH), the name of the national god of Israel.[/quote]
#Post#: 6735--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 26, 2021, 10:26 pm
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"the will to survive itself for its own sake."
I still disagree. Why do Turanians hunt wild animals
recreationally when they already have all the meat they could
ever eat from their herds?
"why did the Sethites prioritize reducing labor in the first
place"
If reducing labour was what they cared about, why would they
bother to go to all the trouble of going on a hunting excursion
when they can just slaughter one of their domesticated sheep
nearby?
Here is a thought experiment for you: if a random person were
magically given immortality, invulnerability and other
superpowers (thereby removing all danger to their survival), do
you expect them to instantly renounce violence? I, on the other
hand, expect them to initiate more violence than they previously
would, since they no longer fear the consequences.
My model is the exact opposite of yours: the will to survive is
what motivates most people to restrain themselves from
initiating most of the violence they would actually like to
initiate.
#Post#: 6737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: rp Date: May 26, 2021, 10:45 pm
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Now you have me asking the same questions! What is it that
motivates Gentiles to commit violence? Simply to affirm their
existence and ensure its perpetual continuity, as John Preston
says in the Equilibrium clip?
"Here is a thought experiment for you: if a random person were
magically given immortality, invulnerability and other
superpowers (thereby removing all danger to their survival), do
you expect them to instantly renounce violence? I, on the other
hand, expect them to initiate more violence than they previously
would, since they no longer fear the consequences."
This could explain why immortality is a recurring theme in Proto
Indo European mythology. Perhaps the Turanians really were
immortal in the sense of having no imminent dangers to their
survival.
#Post#: 6746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: guest5 Date: May 26, 2021, 11:36 pm
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[quote]Unlike the Demiurge whose existence is inferred from the
material world, God is someone whom we must postulate from
within with no supporting evidence that can be found in the
material world.[/quote]
This of course reminds me of my most favorite Gnostic quote of
all:
[quote]Omitting to seek after God, and creation, and things
similar to these, seek for Him from (out of) thyself, and learn
who it is that absolutely appropriates (unto Himself) all things
in thee, and says, "My God my mind, my understanding, my soul,
my body." And learn from whence are sorrow, and joy, and love,
and hatred, and involuntary wakefulness, and involuntary
drowsiness, and involuntary anger, and involuntary affection;
and if you accurately investigate these (points), you will
discover (God) Himself, unity and plurality, in thyself,
according to that tittle, and that He finds the outlet (for
Deity) to be from thyself. — Monoimus[/quote]
[quote]This idea resembles the viewpoint of the much later Sufi
Ibn Arabi, but no connection between the two is known. The
starting point is the ascription in the New Testament of the
work of creation to the Son of Man, whence it was inferred that
the first principle was properly called Man. It follows that it
is a mistake to look for God in creation; we must seek Him in
ourselves, and can best find Him by the study of the involuntary
operations of our own soul. The relation between the "Man" and
"Son of Man" exists from beyond time. The latter is derived from
the former, but, it would seem, by an immediate and eternal
necessity of His nature, just as from fire is necessarily
derived the light which renders it visible. Thus, concerning the
first principle, the Scriptures speak both of a "being" and a
"becoming" (ēn kai egeneto), the first word properly
applying to the "Man," the second to the "Son of Man." in order
to illustrate how in this first principle are combined unity and
multiplicity, perfect simplicity with the most contradictory
attributes, we are referred to the Greek letter ι, the
single stroke of which represents units; and which also
represents the number ten. Then again from the units all other
numbers flow.[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoimus
In my own experience you cannot go wrong following in the advice
of Monoimus in regards to spirituality.
#Post#: 6747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 26, 2021, 11:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"What is it that motivates Gentiles to commit violence?"
Because they themselves have been victims of violence. By
initiating more violence against new victims than was previously
initiated against themselves, they can convince themselves that
having once been victims of violence in the past was worth it
after all (ie. they still made a net profit). This is the key to
how it is possible for people to worship the creator Demiurge.
This also explains why the population must keep increasing.
#Post#: 6758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Catharism: The "Good Christians"?
By: guest5 Date: May 27, 2021, 11:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I would also add that anyone who tells you not to "hate" has
already damned your soul and theirs to be trapped in the
Demiurge's realm forever. GOD ABSOLUTELY HATES EVIL, and if you
cannot hate evil yourself then you will never find God and are
doomed to slavery for all of eternity.
[quote]And learn from whence are sorrow, and joy, and love, and
hatred, and involuntary wakefulness, and involuntary drowsiness,
and involuntary anger, and involuntary affection; and if you
accurately investigate these (points), you will discover (God)
Himself, unity and plurality, in thyself.... — Monoimus[/quote]
And this is how Judeo-Christianity confuses people with it's
schizophrenia:
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/d5/f5/81d5f58da895262ffb9280c6459dc653.jpg
Exodus = Judaism\Old Testament\Tanakh
Luke = Christianity\Teachings of Jesus\New Testament\Gnosis
Jews are clearly taught to honor their parents regardless of how
righteous their parents may actually be. Don't fall for this
soul trap! If you determine your parents are evil DO NOT honor
them!!!
Lastly, by this very teaching in Luke it's easy to see Jesus was
NO JEW!
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