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#Post#: 7218--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: June 18, 2021, 10:11 pm
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Contrary to recent accusations:
HTML http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/reminder-we-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-183382
our ideas are being increasingly adopted:
HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-stop-using-terms-boy-152117540.html
--- Quote ---
> Teachers should drop the terms boys and girls in favour of
“learners”, and mix up the sexes in PE classes, Stonewall has
told schools.
>
> The controversial LGBT charity is urging teachers to ditch all
gendered language and gendered uniforms and suggests that
children should compete against the opposite sex in sport.
> ...
> They are told that they should check their policies and remove
any “unnecessarily gendered language. Instead of using
‘he’/‘she’, you could use ‘they'".
>
> They should also teach primary school children to use
“they/them” as a pronoun, it is said.
> ...
> Stonewall’s advice to educators also includes that teachers
should not use 'boy, girl, boy, girl' when lining pupils up and
ditch phrases such as 'man up' and 'don't be such a girl'.
>
> Gendered language should also be avoided when discussing hair,
make-up and piercings, it says.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7229--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: rp
Date: June 20, 2021, 10:34 am
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Also, another thing I hated as a child was Westerners making
even [I] colors [/I] gender specific, e.g. "Blue is for boys,
pink is for girls!"
#Post#: 8791--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: September 14, 2021, 10:02 pm
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HTML https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/crosswords/gender-language-nonbinary.html
--- Quote ---
> In Hebrew, even the word “they” is gendered. In French, “ils”
refers to a group of men or a mixed-gender group, and “elles”
refers to a group of all females. All nouns in gendered
languages — including people — are categorized as either
masculine or feminine, and any adjectives associated with these
words must reflect that gender.
>
> That presents a problem for students who are
gender-nonconforming, and, of course, for the speakers of the
language in general.
--- End Quote ---
Another reason why Jews should be prohibited from reproducing.
(Also, no wonder I am a supposed Anglophile: at least "they" in
English is not gendered.)
--- Quote ---
> One norm that can frustrate language learners and speakers is
the dominance of the masculine form, which is used as the
default or standard. For example, the masculine “todos,” meaning
“everybody,” is used in Spanish to address a group of people
regardless of their genders at events like conferences or in
official speeches. And the presence of even one man in an
otherwise female group tends to consign the gender to the
masculine.
--- End Quote ---
It merely reflects the attitudes of the traditional users of the
language.
--- Quote ---
> Mx. Moffa highlights the “absurd” nature of assigning gender
to inanimate objects. “Instead of calling it masculine and
feminine, you can just pick other polarities: light and dark,
full and empty, round and square. It doesn’t even really matter
what it is,” he said.
--- End Quote ---
Yet they chose to go with masculine and feminine. Why? (Answer:
because they are obsessed with sexual dimorphism.)
#Post#: 9967--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 3, 2021, 8:30 pm
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Le Robert is on our side:
HTML https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-french-dictionary-added-a-gender-neutral-pronoun-opponents-say-its-too-woke/
--- Quote ---
> Le Robert, an authoritative reference book on the French
language, created an entry for “iel” after its researchers had
noted “an increasing usage” of the third-person pronoun in “a
large body of texts drawn from various sources,” the
dictionary’s director Charles Bimbenet explained in a Wednesday
statement.
> ...
> The dictionary defines “iel,” which combines the words for
“he” and “she,” as a third-person pronoun in singular form that
could refer to a person of any gender. The word is labeled
“rare,” as its use remains relatively low despite a surge in
recent months, Bimbenet said. (“Iels” is the plural form of the
nonbinary pronoun. The variations “Ielle” and ielles” are also
included in Le Robert’s entry.)
--- End Quote ---
The French establishment exhibits its cultural inferiority:
--- Quote ---
> But this week, several French politicians expressed strong
opposition to formally adopting the nonbinary pronouns, bringing
to the fore a long-standing battle over whether the French
language, rigidly structured under masculine-feminine grammar
rules, should be changed to better represent women and
gender-nonconforming individuals.
>
> French Minister of Education Jean-Michel Blanquer tweeted
Wednesday that school-age children should not use Le Robert’s
entry as a valid reference, adding that “inclusive writing is
not the future of the French language.”
>
> François Jolivet, a French parliament member from the ruling
centrist party, similarly rejected the nonbinary pronouns,
characterizing the acceptance of “iel” and its variations as
akin to pushing a “woke” ideology.
> ...
> The then-prime minister of France, Eduard Philippe banned the
use of gender-neutral French in all official government
documents in 2017.
--- End Quote ---
Also, as I have been saying elsewhere:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/dress-decolonization/msg7599/#msg7599
Western civilization promotes high sexual dimorphism (even when
trying to be anti-sexist), and now more people are noticing
this:
HTML https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2021/11/the-gender-gap-in-preferences.html
--- Quote ---
> In the more gender-equal countries, men have “more male”
interests, and the women have “more female” interests.
--- End Quote ---
Western countries claim to be the "more gender-equal countries".
Yet the Western version of anti-sexism (a.k.a. feminism), while
demanding imposed equality, at the same time encourages women to
be proud of being women, so of course women will have more
female interests. Anti-feminist Western men then react by
becoming more proud of being men, so of course men will have
more male interests. Anti-sexism should never have been about
"gender equality", but should always have been about reducing
sexual dimorphism from both ends.
#Post#: 10681--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: bondburger
Date: January 19, 2022, 8:15 am
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--- Quote from: SirGalahad link ---
>
> I think that we should all commit to using “it” from here on
out when talking about people on the forums and the blog. It
might sound weird at first, but all of the languages without
gendered pronouns that I know of, use one word for he, she and
it. I hate using “they” as a non-gendered pronoun, because it
conflates the singular and plural, and it can get confusing
sometimes
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't have a problem with using 'they', it has always been my
default word to use when talking about a person of unknown
gender. For example, when talking about Players in boardgame
rules, I would say that "Player 1 takes THEIR turn" rather than
"Player 1 takes his/her turn" or "Player 1 takes its turn". This
came naturally just out of convenience without even thinking in
any way politically (other than not wanting to exclude female
players - some game rules very irritatingly just say "his"...)
Conflating singular and plural is easily worked around by
context (Germans for example use 'Sie' for both you and they,
and worse still use 'sie' for she!). There could also be
confusions using 'it', I would assume you were not talking about
a person if you referred to an 'it'. Even if you disagree, using
they/them is in agreement with more mainstream gender-neutral
language and cannot be considered in any way insulting, whereas
"it" can be.
I'm convinced that the issue people have with they/them being
confusable with plurals is just backlash against
pronoun-obsessed teens who insisted on being multiple genders
and spirits simultaneously - there were probably very few of
them but caricatured and reposted often enough to stick in the
minds of anti-SJWs.
Still, this is a good idea and we should stick to using gender
neutral language even when talking about people of a known
sex/gender.
#Post#: 10708--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: Polinc_Socjus
Date: January 20, 2022, 2:19 am
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"There could also be confusions using 'it', I would assume you
were not talking about a person if you referred to an 'it'. Even
if you disagree, using they/them is in agreement with more
mainstream gender-neutral language and cannot be considered in
any way insulting, whereas "it" can be."
There are some who prefer It/Its pronouns for themselves. Some
would say that's dehumanizing, but I see that as an opportunity
to criticize anthropocentrism. Theoretically if you think of
gender as a compass instead of a single spectrum, It/Its could
be seen as implicitly neither masculine nor feminine
(neotenous), while They/Them could be seen as implicitly both
masculine and feminine (androgynous).
I've been contemplating using It/Any pronouns on myself for
these and other reasons. But I would still use They/Them for
most situations for the reasons you mentioned.
This could also be explored in fiction.
#Post#: 10709--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: bondburger
Date: January 20, 2022, 3:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Polinc_Socjus link ---
>
> There are some who prefer It/Its pronouns for themselves. Some
would say that's dehumanizing, but I see that as an opportunity
to criticize anthropocentrism. Theoretically if you think of
gender as a compass instead of a single spectrum, It/Its could
be seen as implicitly neither masculine nor feminine
(neotenous), while They/Them could be seen as implicitly both
masculine and feminine (androgynous).
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't see they/them as necessarily androgynous. I think that
the association of they/them with androgyny may be an artifact
of the assumption that people are gendered beings. It makes
sense that they/them would carry such artifacts as it is used in
reference to people, so it reflects the ways in which people are
typically viewed.
Countering anthropocentrism is a good reason for it-pronouns,
but I would prefer to fight anthropocentrism the other way by
referring to more non-humans (starting with animals!) as
they/them. This reinforces the idea that animals are beings like
us and not objects (goys) to be exploited. Referring to all
beings as "it" would not change anything about the way we talk
about any non-humans, and so it does not have this advantage.
This may also further normalise the objectification and
exploitation of humans aswell as non-humans.
#Post#: 12917--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 19, 2022, 9:39 pm
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Good!
HTML https://www.cbsnews.com/news/disney-removes-ladies-and-gentlemen-boys-and-girls-magic-kingdom-fireworks/
--- Quote ---
> The original introduction included, "Good evening, ladies and
Gentlemen, boys and girls, dreamers of all ages." Now, the
greeting is "Good evening, dreamers of all ages."
--- End Quote ---
The rightist reaction:
--- Quote ---
> The change caused a mixed reaction on social media. Some
Twitter users were outraged, with one writing "I HATE THAT.
BRING IT BACK NOW!!!"
--- End Quote ---
The leftist reaction:
--- Quote ---
> Others say they welcome the new change. "I love "Dreamers of
all ages" because it really makes that super snuggly and more
magical. It's so heartwarming," one person tweeted.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 14172--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: June 18, 2022, 8:51 pm
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Even the most elementary degendering, such as everyone filling
in the same form, upsets worshippers of sexual dimorphism:
HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10928505/Male-blood-donor-turned-away-clinic-refused-answer-pregnant.html
--- Quote ---
> Mr Sinclair, 66, was told to fill in a form which asked
whether he was expecting a child or had been pregnant in the
past six months.
>
> When he complained that as a man in his 60s this question did
not apply and he should not have to answer it, Mr Sinclair said
staff at the clinic told him they could not accept his blood.
> ...
>
HTML https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/17/21/59209037-10928505-image-a-3_1655497295578.jpg
> ...
> 'It is nonsensical and it makes me angry because there are
vulnerable people waiting for blood, including children, and in
desperate need of help. But they've been denied my blood because
of the obligation to answer a question that can't possibly be
answered.'
--- End Quote ---
If he is not pregnant, just tick the 'No' box! What is so
difficult about that?
Sinclair also looks like what we would expect:
HTML https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/17/21/59209039-10928505-image-a-2_1655497292272.jpg
#Post#: 14190--------------------------------------------------
Re: True Left breakthrough: degendering
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: June 19, 2022, 5:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Right (and False Left):
>
> "In His own image created He them; male and female created He
them." - Tanakh
>
> True Left:
>
> "When you make the male and the female one, so that the male
will not be male nor the female female ... then will you enter
the Kingdom.” - Jesus
--- End Quote ---
Correction:
Right (and False Left):
"In His own image created He them; male and female created He
them." - Genesis 1:27
True Left:
"When you make the male and the female one, so that the male
will not be male nor the female female ... then will you enter
the Kingdom.” - Thomas 22:5,7
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