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#Post#: 5088--------------------------------------------------
Space travel
By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 26, 2021, 3:06 am
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OLD CONTENT
I wouldn't want to risk the chance of not being able to help
other lifeforms, if they exist, by not looking into the whole
matter either.
---
How many other lifeforms do you find before you become sure
there are no more to be found? And how can you be sure?
---
"How many other lifeforms do you find before you become sure
there are no more to be found?"
All of them, ideally.
"And how can you be sure?"
As of now, I can't. Maybe the future generations will have the
means to be sure.
---
"All of them, ideally."
Let me rephrase my question: how many lifeforms do you find
before you become sure all of them have been found?
"Maybe the future generations will have the means to be sure."
"I will turn to you, make you fruitful, multiply you, and
maintain my covenant with you." - Tanakh
By the same (Western) mentality, future generations which lack
the means to be sure on ever arbitrarily larger scales will
imagine the same of their future generations. This will continue
to apply perpetually. This is the progressivist trap:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/leftists-against-progressivism/
With your (Western) mentality, why stop at this universe? Why
not find ways to travel into other universes just to check for
possible lifeforms there too? When does it end? It can’t end, by
definition, because no matter how far outwards you travel, you
could always speculatively travel further outwards. All the
while, your lifeform is itself doing more and more of the very
thing that you supposedly set out to prevent these
hypothetical(!) other lifeforms from doing.
You have been enslaved by an open-ended hypothesis of an
indefinite number of other lifeforms. All indefinite hypotheses
are enslaving because their potential for confirmation is never
exhausted by a finite number of searches. You become like those
people with severe insect phobias who spend all their time
searching for insects inside their house. No amount of searching
(whether successful or not) to find insects will convince them
that there are no more insects in their house, because they
cannot check every spot in their house at the same time and so
they merely insist that the "insects they HAVEN'T FOUND" (see
the problem with this construct?) are hiding somewhere else than
where they are at each moment. Even if they eventually install
scanners that cover every spot in the house from every possible
angle, they cannot stop scanning because they fear that insects
could be hiding just outside the house who might enter the house
immediately after their most recent scan. So eventually they
have to install scanners outside the house also. How far
outside? No matter how far outside they install scanners,
insects could be waiting to enter from further outside! They are
trapped inside the unfalsifiability of their own indefinite
hypothesis (which is unfalsifiable BY DESIGN). Welcome to
Western epistemology.
---
"Let me rephrase my question: how many lifeforms do you find
before you become sure all of them have been found?"
I had meant that ideally, we'd somehow know how many lifeforms
there are in the universe. The idea is, after learning that,
we'd help them. I don't mean colonize them, I mean liberate them
from evil. If your country began the process of ennoblement,
wouldn't you want that ennoblement to reach out to other lands,
in order to achieve true peace?
"By the same (Western) mentality, future generations which lack
the means to be sure on ever arbitrarily larger scales will
imagine the same of their future generations. This will continue
to apply perpetually. This is the progressivist trap:"
You have a point there, but I still think this idea shouldn't be
discarded. If we had a Golden Age in this solar system here,
whereas some other solar system was enslaved by YHWH, would that
really be a Golden Age? A microcosmic example of this would be
like putting out a fire in your house, then going around the
block to help put out other fires.
"With your (Western) mentality, why stop at this universe? Why
not find ways to travel into other universes just to check for
possible lifeforms there too? When does it end? It can’t end, by
definition, because no matter how far outwards you travel, you
could always speculatively travel further outwards."
Assuming that the extent of physical matter is infinite, then I
agree with what you're saying. But even then... The idea of us
just sitting here, enjoying ourselves, while others suffer, nags
at me a lot - even if we're talking about a hypothetical
situation in a possible future.
"All the while, your lifeform is itself doing more and more of
the very thing that you supposedly set out to prevent these
hypothetical(!) other lifeforms from doing."
The mission is to end ignobility (and it spreading). If we gotta
go around the universe to do that, then I'm all for it.
"You have been enslaved by an open-ended hypothesis of an
indefinite number of other lifeforms. All indefinite hypotheses
are enslaving because their potential for confirmation is never
exhausted by a finite number of searches. You become like those
people with severe insect phobias who spend all their time
searching for insects inside their house. No amount of searching
(whether successful or not) to find insects will convince them
that there are no more insects in their house, because they
cannot check every spot in their house at the same time and so
they merely insist that the "insects they HAVEN'T FOUND" (see
the problem with this construct?) are hiding somewhere else than
where they are at each moment. Even if they eventually install
scanners that cover every spot in the house from every possible
angle, they cannot stop scanning because they fear that insects
could be hiding just outside the house who might enter the house
immediately after their most recent scan. So eventually they
have to install scanners outside the house also. How far
outside? No matter how far outside they install scanners,
insects could be waiting to enter from further outside! They are
trapped inside the unfalsifiability of their own indefinite
hypothesis (which is unfalsifiable BY DESIGN). Welcome to
Western epistemology."
I'd agree with you if we KNEW for certain that there is infinite
amount of physical matter (I don't think there is). But even if
we KNEW for sure that there is an unlimited amount of matter
(and therefore, life), I posit that we resign to at least help
out neighboring extraterrestrial life in our "immediate" area,
and then wallow in grief at the prospect that there is an
infinite amount of slavery and that we can't do anything about
it, despite liberating an entire solar system or two.
...Or maybe the concept of infinity really doesn't exist.
---
"I had meant that ideally, we'd somehow know how many lifeforms
there are in the universe."
OK, how do you know what you think you know is true? What you
are not doing is thinking about what "knowledge" is.
"The idea is, after learning that, we'd help them. I don't mean
colonize them, I mean liberate them from evil."
I do not doubt your good intentions. But something else you
should worry about is that others may not share your intentions,
and the longer we hang around, the more likely sooner or later
the bad guys become the ones in charge (again).
"If your country began the process of ennoblement, wouldn't you
want that ennoblement to reach out to other lands, in order to
achieve true peace?"
Yes, but I would not go looking for hypothetical other lands,
especially not when doing so would require initiating violence
(by forcing yet another generation into existence).
"If we had a Golden Age in this solar system here, whereas some
other solar system was enslaved by YHWH, would that really be a
Golden Age?"
I hate to do this to you, but Boromir might as well say: "What
if there are other Saurons with other Rings in other worlds? I'd
better hold onto this Ring for as long as it takes to find them
all, so that I at least always have a Ring of my own to fight
their Rings with when the time comes!" We all know it is the
actual Sauron putting this idea into his head, and we all know
for what purpose.
"Some other" is an indefinite hypothetical. It does not exist
anywhere except inside your own mind. Defeating Yahweh requires
defeating him inside your own mind first. Go back to when you
were a young child, back before you knew anything about "solar
systems" and other adult rubbish. The idea would not have arisen
in your mind. Uncontaminated children do not think about "some
other". Only after your mind became sufficiently contaminated
did it begin to start taking seriously, and then creating, "some
others".
"A microcosmic example of this would be like putting out a fire
in your house, then going around the block to help put out other
fires."
Which other fires? Oh, those "some other" fires again.....
"The idea of us just sitting here, enjoying ourselves, while
others suffer, nags at me a lot"
Which others? Oh, those "some others" again.....
What should nag at you is that, in order to find those nebulous
"some others", you would be willing to bring an unlimited number
of additional new generations into existence, all of whom will
be the ones suffering for real, at least from the violence of
being born without their own consent, and at most from
everything that would follow if the bad guys get back into
power! That is what you are advocating in essence: causing
endless real suffering (plus risking re-corruption, which given
enough time tends towards certainty) to perhaps reduce an
inexhaustible potential of hypothetical suffering.
"The mission is to end ignobility (and it spreading). If we
gotta go around the universe to do that, then I'm all for it."
Which ignobility? Oh, those "some other" ignobilities again.....
"We"? How do you get that "we"? By yourself initiating violence
(reproducing), that's how. That is the ignobility which it is my
mission to end!
"I'd agree with you if we KNEW for certain that there is
infinite amount of physical matter (I don't think there is)."
There doesn't have to be. We can program a video game with a
infinite random level generator which fills the in-game space
with as many new levels as required as the player explores the
in-game space (ie. the player's choice to keep exploring is
literally what keeps creating the new levels FFS), yet save the
program in a finite-sized file:
archive.org/details/arcade_gauntlet
This allows even the least proficient players to keep playing
indefinitely, if they are willing to keep inserting coins.
You think Yahweh is a worse programmer than these guys?
"the prospect that there is an infinite amount of slavery and
that we can't do anything about it,"
We can. Stop inserting coins. The infinite level generator will
not create more levels if we refuse to explore further.
---
"What should nag at you is that, in order to find those nebulous
"some others", you would be willing to bring an unlimited number
of additional new generations into existence, all of whom will
be the ones suffering for real, at least from the violence of
being born without their own consent, and at most from
everything that would follow if the bad guys get back into
power! That is what you are advocating in essence: causing
endless real suffering (plus risking re-corruption, which given
enough time tends towards certainty) to perhaps reduce an
inexhaustible potential of hypothetical suffering."
I'm with what you're saying here, and retract what I was saying
earlier. But here's another question: If we DO discover alien
life, what do we do. Maybe I should quit with the hypotheticals.
---
"If we DO discover alien life, what do we do."
We treat them the same as we treat anyone else. But we won't be
the ones who discover alien life, it would be our enemies who do
that.
#Post#: 7845--------------------------------------------------
David Myatt and the Vindexa
By: Cthens Date: August 1, 2021, 8:27 pm
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This isn't meant to be a criticism I am just genuinely curious,
are we to ignore the vindexa and ideas of a cosmic reich and
galactic lebensraum that myatt talked about? Is our stance
against space travel only until Aryans can control the quality
of the people going?
#Post#: 7851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Space travel
By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 2, 2021, 4:00 am
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The only people high-quality enough to be theoretically
deserving of trust to do space travel are those who themselves
would never want to in the first place*. So if we are fortunate
enough to one day populate the world exclusively with such
people, the idea of space travel would never occur to them, and
that's how it should be. If the idea were to occur among any of
them, that in itself is proof that the quality we aim at has in
fact not yet been reached.
The only circumstances under which we would do space travel is
if our enemies have already expanded into space, thus forcing us
to chase them down.
(* This principle also applies to reproduction.)
#Post#: 11008--------------------------------------------------
Humans Will Never Get to Deep Space – Nobel Prize Physicist
By: guest55 Date: February 2, 2022, 8:55 pm
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Humans Will Never Get to Deep Space – Nobel Prize Physicist
[quote]This is the second half of our in-depth conversation with
a brilliant mind, the genius and Nobel Prize winner Professor
Gerard ‘t Hooft. We talk about whether quantum mechanics and
quantum physics are just about probability and more of an
esoteric notion rather than a precise science.
#news #space #worldevents[/quote]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZbkUV4NLk
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/e0/15/4fe015ac52ce700b5e86535a7835c285.jpg
[img]
HTML https://i.chzbgr.com/full/5359345920/hBDAF0784/trust-me-spock-you-really-didnt[/img]
#Post#: 11917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Space travel
By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 11, 2022, 3:46 am
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Western civilization.....
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaxfKvPyQA
#Post#: 11918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Space travel
By: rp Date: March 11, 2022, 6:01 am
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Kelly's face:
[img width=853
height=1280]
HTML https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/jsc2015e032660.jpg[/img]
#Post#: 13666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elon Musk
By: guest55 Date: May 26, 2022, 11:31 am
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(Minus the "better alternatives to Mars" part. The whole
'colonizing another planet' idea seems to be nothing more than
an ego trip for some human-beings).
Why a Mars Colony is a Stupid and Dangerous Idea
[quote]On today's episode of "Elon said it, so it must be a good
idea".[/quote]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9YdnzOf4NQ
#Post#: 17518--------------------------------------------------
There’s no planet B
By: guest78 Date: January 18, 2023, 4:04 am
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There’s no planet B
[quote]The scientific evidence is clear: the only celestial body
that can support us is the one we evolved with. Here’s
why[/quote]
[quote]At the start of the 22nd century, humanity left Earth for
the stars. The enormous ecological and climatic devastation that
had characterised the last 100 years had led to a world barren
and inhospitable; we had used up Earth entirely. Rapid melting
of ice caused the seas to rise, swallowing cities whole.
Deforestation ravaged forests around the globe, causing
widespread destruction and loss of life. All the while, we
continued to burn the fossil fuels we knew to be poisoning us,
and thus created a world no longer fit for our survival. And so
we set our sights beyond Earth’s horizons to a new world, a
place to begin again on a planet as yet untouched. But where are
we going? What are our chances of finding the elusive planet B,
an Earth-like world ready and waiting to welcome and shelter
humanity from the chaos we created on the planet that brought us
into being? We built powerful astronomical telescopes to search
the skies for planets resembling our own, and very quickly found
hundreds of Earth twins orbiting distant stars. Our home was not
so unique after all. The universe is full of Earths![/quote]
[quote]This futuristic dream-like scenario is being sold to us
as a real scientific possibility, with billionaires planning to
move humanity to Mars in the near future. For decades, children
have grown up with the daring movie adventures of intergalactic
explorers and the untold habitable worlds they find. Many of the
highest-grossing films are set on fictional planets, with paid
advisors keeping the science ‘realistic’. At the same time,
narratives of humans trying to survive on a post-apocalyptic
Earth have also become mainstream.
Given all our technological advances, it’s tempting to believe
we are approaching an age of interplanetary colonisation. But
can we really leave Earth and all our worries behind? No. All
these stories are missing what makes a planet habitable to us.
What Earth-like means in astronomy textbooks and what it means
to someone considering their survival prospects on a distant
world are two vastly different things. We don’t just need a
planet roughly the same size and temperature as Earth; we need a
planet that spent billions of years evolving with us. We depend
completely on the billions of other living organisms that make
up Earth’s biosphere. Without them, we cannot survive.
Astronomical observations and Earth’s geological record are
clear: the only planet that can support us is the one we evolved
with. There is no plan B. There is no planet B. Our future is
here, and it doesn’t have to mean we’re doomed.[/quote]
[quote]Deep down, we know this from instinct: we are happiest
when immersed in our natural environment. There are countless
examples of the healing power of spending time in nature.
Numerous articles speak of the benefits of ‘forest bathing’;
spending time in the woods has been scientifically shown to
reduce stress, anxiety and depression, and to improve sleep
quality, thus nurturing both our physical and mental health. Our
bodies instinctively know what we need: the thriving and unique
biosphere that we have co-evolved with, that exists only here,
on our home planet.
There is no planet B. These days, everyone is throwing around
this catchy slogan. Most of us have seen it inscribed on an
activist’s homemade placard, or heard it from a world leader. In
2014, the United Nations’ then secretary general Ban Ki-moon
said: ‘There is no plan B because we do not have [a] planet B.’
The French president Emmanuel Macron echoed him in 2018 in his
historical address to US Congress. There’s even a book named
after it. The slogan gives strong impetus to address our
planetary crisis. However, no one actually explains why there
isn’t another planet we could live on, even though the evidence
from Earth sciences and astronomy is clear. Gathering this
observation-based information is essential to counter an
increasingly popular but flawed narrative that the only way to
ensure our survival is to colonise other planets.[/quote]Entire
article:
HTML https://aeon.co/essays/we-will-never-be-able-to-live-on-another-planet-heres-why?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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