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#Post#: 21521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: August 16, 2023, 3:39 am
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--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
>
> Previously:
>
>
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/colonialism-as-viewed-by-westerners/msg13374/#msg13374
>
> Another enemy article on Helper:
>
>
HTML https://www.amren.com/features/2023/08/h-r-helper-the-lonely-abolitionist/
>
> [quote]A common mistake, both then and now, is to believe that
19th-century abolitionists were motivated by altruistic concerns
for blacks. That may be largely true of anti-slavery sentiment
in New England, but it was far less true in the rest of the
country, where the motives for abolishing slavery typically had
much more to do with bettering whites rather than freeing
blacks.
--- End Quote ---
This is correct.
--- Quote ---
> That was especially true of perhaps the most prominent
Southern opponent of slavery, North Carolina’s Hinton Rowan
Helper. Through a succession of books in the 1850s and 1860s,
Helper gradually developed an evolving attitude toward slavery —
a viewpoint that changed from acceptance to mild objection on
sociological terms, to opposition for economic reasons, and then
finally to outright antagonism towards the race that was held in
thrall.
> ...
> Crisis was addressed to and concerned chiefly with
non-slaveholding whites, whom he saw as slavery’s principal
victims, because it cheapened honest manual labor, confining it
to the low-born.
> ...
> it was in Argentina during the war that Helper first became
intimately familiar with blacks. He developed an unreasoning
loathing for them, and the fact that slavery brought Africans
into contact with whites became an additional reason for him to
oppose slavery.
>
> One of his duties as consul was to approve applications for
emigration to the United States. He routinely denied
applications by blacks
> ...
> Helper resented having been lumped in with South-hating
abolitionists, so one of the goals of the book is to distinguish
himself from that group by clearly stating his shockingly low
opinion of the African race. He does so in the preface to the
479-page book:
>
> [T]he primary object of this work is to write the Negro out of
America, and the secondary object is to write him (and manifold
millions of other black and bi-colored caitiffs, little better
than himself) out of existence. .
>
> A few paragraphs later, he adds:
>
> These sluggish and apathetic enemies of true progress, these
unimpressible bafflers and repellers of good intentions, have I
frequently seen, in painfully loathsome and inauspicious
numbers, on both sides of each of the three great Americas,
North America, South America, and Central America. I speak of
negroes, mulattoes, Indians, Chinese, and other obviously
inferior races of mankind, whose colors are black or brown, but
never white; and whose mental and moral characteristics are no
less impure and revolting than their swarthy complexions.
> ...
> The book consists of 11 chapters, some of whose titles are
juxtaposed against each another, such as, “Black: A Thing Of
Ugliness, Disease, and Death” versus “White: A Thing Of Life,
Health, and Beauty” and “White Celebrities, and Black Nobodies.”
> ...
> “Why is it that the negroes are so rapidly falling a prey to
every manner of fatal affliction? Is it not because Nature is
becoming impatient to close her account with them?”
>
> The German replied that the observed frailty of blacks was
“new proof that . . . the negro race is inferior to the white
race.”
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/exposing-people-with-the-western-darwinian-worldview/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> Blacks should, according to Helper, ultimately be removed from
“all the exterior parts of the earth.” And that applies not only
to blacks but to “the mulattoes, the Indians, the Chinese . . .
and all the other swarthy drones and dregs of mankind.”
> ...
> Indians, he says, are a disappearing race, perishing from
contact with their natural superiors, the whites. So let it be
with blacks.
> ...
> He quotes then-senator James Doolittle of Wisconsin, who,
after noting that in the 1860s nearly a million blacks had
perished in the South, said: “Verily, the Lord gave, and the
Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord”!
>
> Like most of his contemporaries, Hinton Rowan Helper was a
Christian. Born into a Lutheran family, he joined a Presbyterian
congregation as a young man. Chapter VI of Nojoque hearkens back
to that faith, citing “a score of Bible lessons in the arts of
annihilating effete races.” These 20 lessons “will fully explain
the Hebrew account of God’s method of ridding the world of those
glaringly abortive and worthless races who, like the negroes,
the Indians, and all the bi-colored fag-ends of mankind, have
ceased to have a useful mission outside the superficies of this
terrestrial ball.”
>
> Each lesson is a single passage from the Old Testament. Lesson
14 is Obadiah 1:15–16:
>
> The day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen;
> Yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down,
> And they shall be as though they had not been.
--- End Quote ---
No, he was not a Christian. Christians follow Jesus. Helper
follows the Old Testament:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/right-left-(judeo-)christian-divergence/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> After welcoming the misguided slaveholder back into the fold,
he draws a line:
>
> With [the negro] we must come to no terms; with him we must
have neither part nor lot. No, no; of the matchless crime of his
blackness and slavery and stupidity and self-imposed
despicableness, there can be no forgiveness this side the grave;
I beg the reader’s pardon; I meant to have said this side the
gully, this side the gutter, this side the Gulf of Mexico, or
this side the Gulf of Guinea! As thoroughly and as speedily as
possible must the negro be fossilized; and then, by the better
students of natural history, shall his bleaching bones be held
equally sacred with the wire-strung skeletons of his
first-cousin congeners, the gorilla and the baboon!
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/ethnonepotism/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> Finally, he offers recommendations to the world’s whites.
>
> Whites have erred, he maintains, in failing to unify. Allowing
their nations to be splintered into tiny principalities and
fiefdoms has long hindered the advancement of the race toward
its destiny of world dominion.
> ...
> Hinton Rowan Helper ends with a triumphant flourish:
>
> From America quickly must the negro take his departure; from
every part of the world must the Indian and the bi-colored
hybrid soon hie away. No new golden age, general jubilee, no
Eden-like millennium, no prolonged period of uninterrupted peace
and joy, until in the total absence of all the swarthy and
inferior races of men, the happy time thus contemplated shall be
ushered in amidst the rapturous melody of a grand and universal
chorus of the Whites!
--- End Quote ---
Predating The Turner Diaries:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-we-lose/
by more than a century.....
Once again confirming my long-held assertion that those who want
"white" ethnostates will not be satisfied by getting them. They
already had "white" ethnostates prior to the colonial era, and
the colonial era still happened!
[/quote]
Then, it's not racist to be anti-white, seeing if we not resist,
we will got wiped out and the world will filled by people with
Faustian oppressive behaviour
#Post#: 22114--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: GermanColonialism
Date: September 14, 2023, 10:56 pm
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Faces of colonialism: the story of an imperialist propaganda |
DW Documentary
--- Quote ---
> For a long time, photographer Robert Lohmeyer shaped the
European view of Africa. During his travels, from 1907 to 1909,
he photographed the German colonies -- in color, for the first
time. In doing so, he laid the photographic foundations of
racism.
>
> The young photographer‘s trip to the German colonies of Togo,
Cameroon, German Southwest Africa (now Namibia) and German East
Africa (now Tanzania) was taken at the height of German
imperialism. In his photographs of his travels, Robert Lohmeyer
generated enthusiasm for these distant lands that Germany
considered its possessions.
> Making use of the most up-to-date photographic equipment at
the time, Lohmeyer’s project was a meticulously planned PR
campaign. Its goal? A celebration of colonialism and empire.
> Lohmeyer’s resulting photography books were seen by huge
numbers of people. Even today, the pictures are still in
circulation. Lohmeyer's photos convey the image of a "peaceful
savage" in a paradisiacal landscape. A colonial idyll. Because
the images are in color, they evoke a feeling of authenticity
and truthfulness. War, disease, hunger and death do not appear
in Lohmeyer's pictures.
> Based on unpublished written sources and photographs, the
documentary follows Lohmeyer's journey. It tells the story of a
chapter in the history of photography. But it also tells the
story of a propaganda coup. Finally, the film explores
Lohmeyer’s contribution to a new kind of racism -- in color -
the effects of which can still be felt today.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpZztZkscFA
#Post#: 22771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: Pyratani
Date: October 14, 2023, 4:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
>
>
HTML https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66309637
>
> [quote]Colonisation was "the luckiest thing that happened" to
Australia, the nation's second-longest serving Prime Minister
John Howard has said.
>
> His remarks were made in relation to a historic referendum due
to take place this year on Indigenous recognition.
>
> Speaking to the Australian Newspaper about the upcoming vote,
Mr Howard described colonisation as "inevitable".
--- End Quote ---
The mere fact that the states much nearer to Australia did not
colonize it (despite the considerable economic advantages that
they would similarly have gained from doing so) already refutes
the claim of inevitability. Howard's mode of thinking is the
barbarian one: if we don't do it, someone else will, so better
we get the advantage than they do. The mode of thinking of the
states near to Australia is the truly civilized one: we don't
want someone else to start doing it, so we ourselves won't start
doing it either.
--- Quote ---
> His government weakened First Nations land rights, suspended
Australia's racial discrimination act, and refused to apologise
to the Stolen Generations - tens of thousands of Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander children who were taken from their
families by the government until the mid-1960s.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Tonight's results on our National Referendum in support of
constitutional recognition of Australia's first peoples and the
establishment of a Voice to Parliament for Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander peoples appears to have been defeated. It is a
very sad day for Australia, as it appears to prove once again
that it really is stuck in racism and colonialism.
#Post#: 22778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: October 14, 2023, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hence:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/australia/
#Post#: 22994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Racial View of Western Philosopher from John Locke to Karl
Marx
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: October 23, 2023, 10:56 pm
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Nathaniel Shaler
--- Quote ---
> Shaler became a fixture at Harvard during the 1870s, often
referring to Agassiz as "my master." As a professor of geology,
paleontology, and scientific truth in general, Shaler taught a
generation of men destined to lead the United States, including
Theodore Roosevelt. Through his commentary on American life,
Shaler's Anglo-Saxon chauvinism provided a bulwark to the New
England-based movement against immigrants from southern and
eastern Europe. Today, after the mid-twentieth century
reshuffling of race into a black/white binary, Shaler appears in
history as a proponent of black inferiority. But in the 1880s
and 1890s, he also-and mainly-helped elevate the figure of the
white male Kentuckian into an emblem of America and took aim at
southern and eastern European immigrants as menaces to American
racial integrity.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
The History of White People by Nell Irvin Painter page 137
About Nathaniel Shaler :
--- Quote ---
> Nathaniel Southgate Shaler (February 20, 1841 – April 10,
1906)[1] was an American paleontologist and geologist who wrote
extensively on the theological and scientific implications of
the theory of evolution, whose work is now considered scientific
racism.[2]
>
> ...
>
> Shaler was an apologist for slavery and an outspoken believer
in the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race. In his later career,
Shaler continued to support Agassiz's polygenism, a theory of
human origins that was often used to support racial
discrimination, falling under the category of Scientific
racism.[10] In his 1884 article, "The Negro Problem", published
in the Atlantic Monthly, Shaler claimed that black people freed
from slavery were "like children lost in the wood, needing the
old protection of the strong mastering hand," that they became
increasingly dominated by their "animal nature" as they grew
from children into adults, and American slavery had been
"infinitely the mildest and most decent system of slavery that
ever existed."[11]
>
> ...
>
> ...In Nature and Man in America, Shaler justifies the
superiority of the Aryan race based on their development within
European topography, "marvelously suited to be the cradles of
people", erroneously attributing their origin to the
Scandinavian provinces, "a field which seems to have been the
seat of the strongest men in the world for thousands of years."
>
> ...
>
> ...Shaler argues that North America has "peculiar advantages”
for American people (of Aryan descent) because the climate and
topography of the land is ideal for the institution of slavery,
which made it possible to cultivate this "new and rude
land".[12]
>
> Shaler believed that slavery was greatly beneficial for the
United States, and even went so far as to suggest that slaves
themselves benefitted from this institution, suggesting slavery
"led to the rapid accumulation of wealth, and in this way
brought the people the sooner into a condition in which they
could control their own destiny." Expressing concern that the
South will "release into barbarism", Shaler proposes that "the
advance of the negro to a satisfactory grade in development
still depends upon his remaining in close contact with the
superior race."[12]
--- End Quote ---
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Shaler
#Post#: 23003--------------------------------------------------
Re: Racial View of Western Philosopher from John Locke to Karl
Marx
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: October 24, 2023, 8:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
John W. Burgess, the American Nordicist
--- Quote ---
> John William Burgess (August 26, 1844 – January 13, 1931) was
an American political scientist. He spent most of his career at
Columbia University where he created the first graduate school
in Political Science. He has been described as "the most
influential political scientist of the period"[1] and "the
father of American political science."[2] He is the academic
advisor of Charles Edward Merriam.
>
> ...
>
> Burgess was a strong influence on the Dunning School of
Reconstruction. Burgess "agreed with the scholarly consensus
that blacks were inferior",[5] and wrote that "black skin means
membership in a race of men which has never of itself succeeded
in subjecting passion to reason, has never, therefore, created
any civilization of any kind."[6]
>
> In a 1904, Burgess argued for close British, American and
German relations, justifying it in part on the basis of "ethnic
affinity". He also argued that Swedes, Danes, Norwegians and the
Dutch were "probably the purest Teutonic stock, and the best
stock, in Europe". He added that it was a "sober truth that the
Teutonic genius and the Teutonic conscience are the two greatest
forces in modern civilization and culture."[7]
>
> Burgess defended how Southern planters treated slaves, arguing
that most planters treated them well and that most slaves were
content with slavery.[2] Burgess criticized the 1852 novel Uncle
Tom's Cabin, arguing that it was "a gross exaggeration" of how
most slaves were treated.[2]
--- End Quote ---
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Burgess_(political_scientist)
More information about John W. Burgess
--- Quote ---
> John W. Burgess. Writing in the Political Science Quarterly in
1895, Burgess denounced the ignorance and wickedness of those
supporting open immigration to the United States. They sought,
he maintained in newly fashionable racial terminology, "to
pollute [the United States] = with non-Aryan
elements."􀂂 This kind of meanness far
out􀂆shouted Boas's careful edging away from racial
chauvinism.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
The History of White People by Nell Irvin Painter page 167
#Post#: 23364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: November 3, 2023, 7:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Enemy article:
HTML https://www.amren.com/features/2023/11/did-we-steal-america-from-the-indians/
--- Quote ---
> Scholarship on European colonialism in the New World is now,
of course, completely dominated by the Left. Prof. Fynn-Paul
writes that such scholarship is animated by a worldview that “is
so rabidly anti-white, anti-male, and anti-European that it
challenges the idea of human progress itself.”
--- End Quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote ---
> He correctly attributes a kind of “Western exceptionalism” to
leftist historians, in that they assume that “Western colonies
and colonists were worse than others, that Western ideologies
were more cruel than others, and that Western economies were
more brutal than others.”
--- End Quote ---
It is no assumption that (post-Renaissance) Western imperialism
is worse, for it is unique in choosing colonialism rather than
integrationism, but only for those whom it classified as
"non-white".
--- Quote ---
> In fact, by the time Europeans began enslaving blacks in the
16th century, Muslims had already enslaved millions over the
course of nearly a thousand years.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, but Muslims:
1) enslaved irrespective of ethnic background, unlike "white"
enslavers who only enslaved "non-whites";
2) offered all slaves the individual choice to convert to Islam
as a condition for citizenship, unlike "white" enslavers wh
never offered their slaves any equivalent choice.
--- Quote ---
> And they were particularly brutal about it: Unlike Europeans,
the Arabs routinely castrated their male slaves.
--- End Quote ---
.
Whereas "white" enslavers used male slaves to breed the next
generation of slaves. Which is the sustainable evil? (And again,
slaves under Islam were given the option of conversion as an
alternative to castration. Is this brutal?)
--- Quote ---
> Yet, for the Left, Western slavery was exceptionally and
uniquely bad.
--- End Quote ---
It was, for the reasons just provided above.
--- Quote ---
> They also apparently think that it is the only slavery anybody
needs to hear about.
--- End Quote ---
If so, why do we have the following topic?
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/the-difference-between-islamic-and-europe-on-slave-treatment/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> It has now become de rigueur for academics writing about
Indians and settlers to employ the language of “stolen land” and
“genocide,” even in otherwise objective histories.
--- End Quote ---
Because it is the truth!
--- Quote ---
> The attitude of leftist historians toward the Indians, who
they claim they are defending, is also predictably
condescending. This seems always to be the case with whomever
the Left takes up as a cause célèbre. Essentially, the Left
portrays Indians as peaceful, happy-go-lucky flower children,
living in harmony with nature and sharing all things.
--- End Quote ---
Hardly. We are perfectly aware that many Amerindians were
hunters, and have no problem saying this makes them racially
inferior to those (Amerindian or otherwise) who were not. But
did life for New World animals get better or worse after Western
colonization? Would Amerindians have independently come up with
the idea of breeding animals in factory conditions? Would they
have used them for experimentation? Would they have polluted
their habitats with modern chemicals? I think we all know the
answers.
--- Quote ---
> Indians were extraordinarily violent and ethnocentric people,
who were busy “genociding” each other long before Europeans
allegedly tried it on them. They were also not exactly
responsible stewards of the environment; they overkilled North
American megafauna to the point of extinction long before
Europeans arrived.
--- End Quote ---
Which is worse: being hunted to extinction or being turned into
a sustainable commodity?
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-sustainable-evil/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> Prof. Fynn-Paul correctly notes that Europe invented “the
modern discourse on human rights.”
--- End Quote ---
That is why Western civilization is more evil:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/rights-vs-duties/msg23228/#msg23228
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> He also correctly states that “We simply do not find such a
plethora of humanitarian sentiment in most traditional cultures,
where individual human rights are normally subsumed under the
rights of powerful men, institutions, and family honor.”
--- End Quote ---
This gave the latter a duty to stand up for individuals under
their charge who were wronged. Whereas now, anyone can agree
that individuals have "rights" but simultaneously consider it
none of one' own concern when they are wronged (since one has
the "right" oneself to not be bothered by third-party disputes).
--- Quote ---
> Let us consider what the Indians were really like. The most
advanced Indian civilizations in the New World were those in
Mexico and Central America. However, leftist historians have
made absurd claims on behalf of these people, asserting, for
example, that they were “more advanced” than European
civilization of the same period. The reality is that the
civilizations of the Aztecs and the Incas were roughly analogous
in their level of achievement to the Mesopotamian cultures of
around 3,000 BC.
--- End Quote ---
Would we have any of the following problems:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-a-health-hazard/
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-western-civilization-does-not-die-soon/
in Aztec, Incan or Mesopotamian civilizations?
(See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/new-world-raft-design-and-colonialist-response/msg4833/#msg4833
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/new-world-raft-design-and-colonialist-response/msg18682/#msg18682
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/new-world-raft-design-and-colonialist-response/msg20492/#msg20492<br
/>)
--- Quote ---
> The Aztecs had invented the wheel, but by the time of the
Spanish conquest used it only for children’s toys.
--- End Quote ---
How much roadkill is caused by wheeled children's toys? For
comparison:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-a-health-hazard/msg38/?topicseen#msg38
--- Quote ---
> The number of animals killed in the United States has been
estimated at a million per day.[10][11]
> ...
> the following animals are being killed by motor vehicles in
the United States annually: 41 million squirrels, 26 million
cats, 22 million rats, 19 million opossums, 15 million raccoons,
6 million dogs, and 350,000 deer.[15]
> ...
> two insects killed on the license-plate area for every 10
kilometres (6.2 mi) driven. This implies about 1.6 trillion
insect deaths by cars per year in the Netherlands, and about
32.5 trillion deaths in the United States if the figures are
extrapolated there.[19]
--- End Quote ---
Divide the latter number by the former, and that is the factor
by which Westerners are inferior to Aztecs on this one count
(wheel usage) alone.
Back to enemy article:
--- Quote ---
> Slavery was widely practiced by Indian tribes. During the 17th
century, records indicate that only a few hundred Indians were
taken as slaves from New England. Within the same period,
Indians enslaved tens of thousands of other Indians.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, but the point is that colonial-era "whites" enslaved
"non-whites" while not enslaving "whites". This double-standard
is what we despise. No such double-standard existed among
Amerindians, as you yourself admit. Amerindians merely did not
consider slavery intolerable; "whites" considered it intolerable
(for their ingroup) but simultaneously practiced it (to their
outgroup).
--- Quote ---
> The Aztecs butchered more than 20,000 human beings a year,
cutting their still-beating hearts out of their bodies in the
belief that this was what kept the sun shining. Apparently, this
practice was sanctioned by “Aztec philosophy.”
--- End Quote ---
Is this not less despicable than the present-day Western
scientists who use non-humans for experimentation in order to
benefit humans?
--- Quote ---
> Cannibalism is well documented among some Indian tribes.
--- End Quote ---
Are not cannibals less despicable than anti-cannibalistic
meat-eaters? The former accept meat-eating; the latter consider
it unacceptable (for their ingroup) but simultaneously practice
it (to their outgroup).
--- Quote ---
> The Natchez Indians of Mississippi practiced child sacrifice.
--- End Quote ---
Westerners practice a far slower and more torturous form of
child sacrifice known as compulsory schooling:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/canada-residential-schools/
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> European relations with the Indians tended to alternate
between periods of peace and periods of war. And, yes, there
were massacres — by both sides against the other.
--- End Quote ---
Which side is stealing the land of the other? (Hint: substitute
"European" with "Israeli" and "Indian" with "Palestinian".)
--- Quote ---
> However, Europeans frequently allied themselves with one
Indian tribe against another.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, we already know "whites" like to use "non-whites" as cannon
fodder.
--- Quote ---
> Prof. Fynn-Paul asks, “why does the historical record provide
so many examples of Indians voluntarily wandering into English
and Dutch camps, and even climbing on board ships,” if today’s
leftists are correct about the rapacity with which Europeans
went about trying to murder and enslave them?
--- End Quote ---
Experience has already made it clear that staying away from
"whites" does not prevent "whites" from murdering or enslaving
them, so why not try the opposite approach?
Now let's turn the question around: if today's rightists are
correct about Amerindian savagery, then why did so many
English/Dutch/etc. voluntarily wander into the New World?
The really important question is: which side crossed the
Atlantic first?
"Whites" started it all; Amerindians were merely reacting.
--- Quote ---
> Did we steal the Indians’ land? Yes and no. First, a plausible
case can be made that the forcible relocation of the Indians
during the Trail of Tears was theft of land. We had originally
agreed that the land was theirs and that we would respect their
right to it. But when we discovered that the land was much more
valuable than we had thought, Indian property rights suddenly
meant little — in fact, nothing. But this was the exception and
not the rule.
--- End Quote ---
So do you plan on giving the land back?
--- Quote ---
> In the vast majority of cases, land settled by Europeans was
purchased from Indians, who willingly sold it.
--- End Quote ---
After you had already made examples of what happens to those who
do not willingly sell?
--- Quote ---
> about 90 percent of the land remained in Indian hands for the
first 300 years after Europeans arrived in the New World. Vast
swaths of North America remained completely unoccupied by white
people.
--- End Quote ---
About 90% of the land remained in Palestinian hands for the
first 30 years after Zionist settlers arrived in Palestine. Vast
swaths of Palestine remained completely unoccupied by Jewish
people.
What happened next (in both cases!)?
--- Quote ---
> the “stolen land” claim rests on the assumption that Indians
displaced from their land by Europeans had occupied that land in
perpetuity. The truth is that the Indians displaced by Europeans
had generally slaughtered the previous group of Indians — who
had, in turn, had slaughtered an earlier group.
--- End Quote ---
The burden is on you to provide hard evidence for the claim in
bold. Otherwise, that is the actual assumption.
But even if evidence were to turn up in future, that does not
exonerate the colonial-era Western colonizers, who did not know
about it at the time and certainly did not justify own their
actions based on such an argument, but rather on Manifest
Destiny which was not intended to be an ethical argument at all.
For that matter, the same Western colonial empires had no
problem with stealing other lands whose existing inhabitants had
definitely never displaced others:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/has-australia-reconciled-with-its-colonial-past/
The bottom line is that Western colonizers were never concerned
with ethics, but only with the Doctrine of Discovery:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/colonialism-as-viewed-by-westerners/msg14893/#msg14893
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/colonialism-as-viewed-by-westerners/msg15179/#msg15179
Continuing:
--- Quote ---
> This is why groveling “acknowledgements” such as the one made
by the Perimeter Institute are so silly.
--- End Quote ---
Is it silly to acknowledge the unethicality of the Doctrine of
Discovery, or of Manifest Destiny?
--- Quote ---
> Since we are not going to give the land back, what purpose is
served by cringey “land acknowledgements,” aside from letting
affluent white liberals signal their virtue?
--- End Quote ---
Then why not give the land back?
--- Quote ---
> Indians have now been very handsomely compensated for the
wrong done to them. Today, the US government spends more than
$20 billion a year on the descendants of Indians wronged by our
ancestors, which works out to about $20,000 per Indian per year.
At this point, we owe them nothing.
--- End Quote ---
At best* the money can be considered compensation for the time
you have spent violently possessing the land. You still need to
give back the land itself.
(* I myself do not agree with this. I advocate that the
colonized should take the Western colonial empires' original
lands as compensation. Above all I despise the principle that
the colonizers, not the colonized, are the ones who get to
decide what the compensation should be.)
#Post#: 23367--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: rp
Date: November 3, 2023, 8:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This is why #LandBack > Land "Acknowledgments"
#Post#: 23852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Colonialism as viewed by Westerners
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: November 18, 2023, 6:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Our enemies explain that progressivism is the root of
Islamophobia (I agree, which is why I, a regressive, am not
Islamophobic):
HTML https://www.eurocanadians.ca/2023/11/islam-is-often-a-predictor-of-stagnation-and-intellectual-barrenness
--- Quote ---
> Recent research asserts that by impeding commerce and
self-governing institutions Islam obstructed the demand for
education and as such, this led to a negative relationship
between Islamic rule and human capital levels
> ...
> In explaining these findings the authors conclude that Islamic
regions are worse off because Christians and colonial
administrators were less likely to reside in such places. But
this is an indirect admission that Christians and colonial
administrators would have provided better governance than
Islamic leaders since their absence in Islamic spaces lowered
performance. The paucity of colonial intervention in Islamic
spaces is explained by the conservatism and aggression of Islam.
Islamic territories were likely to resist change and could be
quite uncharitable to Europeans, so avoiding these areas was in
their best interest.
>
> Islam is lauded by politically correct pundits as a
progressive religion, but as the evidence indicates it is often
a predictor of stagnation and intellectual barrenness. Western
countries should be wary of those who obscure the
anti-progressive elements of Islam
--- End Quote ---
I do not obscure the anti-progressive elements of Islam; I
defend them! Why does everything have to be about maximizing
"performance" and "human capital"? What is so bad about simple
living? Instead of calling it "stagnation", why not call it
satisfaction? Instead of calling it "barrenness", why not call
it contentment?
#Post#: 24224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: November 29, 2023, 8:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Fatal Flaw of Western Liberalism
--- Quote ---
> The violence of decolonization reaffirmed the relationship
between freedom and race, and the challenge to white freedom, in
the decades after World War II. All too often imperial
authorities responded to colonial movements for liberation by
racially informed repression, in effect reinforcing the reality
that to be nonwhite was to be unfree.54 More generally, the
resistance to decolonization, even if it involved reforms and
more liberal visions of colonial life, fundamentally rested upon
the conviction that white elites had not only a monopoly on
freedom but the right to rule nonwhite populations around the
world. Decolonization ultimately destroyed that conviction, at
least in theory, and so upended traditional parallels between
whiteness and freedom
--- End Quote ---
Source :
White Freedom The Racial History of an Idea Tyler Edward Stovall
2021 Princeton University Press page 277
*****************************************************
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