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#Post#: 27651--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 29, 2024, 10:41 pm
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True Left's forum is correct on it's way to understand on
Hitler's political worldview
[quote]Well, it turns out that Mein Kampf is kinda essential
reading if you want to understand Hitler, even if it’s a
terribly written book, so I was taught wrong there. It’s
propaganda, and wasn’t just written by Hitler, plus he did lie
in the book, but ultimately it’s a necessary source if we want
to understand what Hitler was doing, his personality, his
ideology and what his plans were for the Second World
War.[/quote]
(Minute 1:00 - 1:20)
[quote]In some sections of the book, Nilsson showed that
Hitler’s views in the Table Talks were no different than what
could be found in Mein Kampf, implying to the reader that it was
a forgery.
But then in other sections, he shows that the views were
different.
But instead of concluding that maybe Hitler’s opinions had
changed over time, he concluded that this meant it was most
likely made up
because Hitler’s views were not consistent in the 20 years
between the two sources.
Well, hold on, which is it? Are people allowed to change their
mind over the course of 20 years, or should we say the exact
same things 20 years apart. Make up your mind.
Well, we can prove that some of Hitler’s views did in fact
change over time. Zitelmann himself shows this with help from
several sources (not including the Table Talks). For example,
Hitler initially accepted the authority of officers in any given
situation, and had special respect for them.
That attitude obviously changed later on, even if elements of it
remained, and there’s a contradiction within Hitler’s
personality as a result.[/quote]
(Minute 34 : 33 - 35:43)
Source :
How Hitler’s “Table Talks” broke history, October 10, 2022
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8EWd-IH6HI
#Post#: 27718--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: September 3, 2024, 8:22 am
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[quote]How Hitler Became a Believer in the State-Planned Economy
by Dr Rainer Zitelmann
In fact, to a certain extent we can only speculate on Hitler’s
true position before 1933 because Hitler kept his plans strictly
secret, primarily in order not to offend the businessmen. In his
talks with Otto Wagener, the chief of the economic policy
section of the NSDAP, Hitler underlined the importance of
keeping his economic plans secret time and again. In September
1931, for example, he said:
“The conclusion from this is what I have said all along, that
this idea is not to become a subject for propaganda, or even for
any sort of discussion, except within the innermost study group.
It can only be implemented in any case when we hold political
power in our hands.And even then we will have as opponents,
besides the Jews, all of private industry, particularly heavy
industry, as well as the medium and large landholders, and
naturally the banks.”
How important Hitler considered the question of state-controlled
planning of the economy to be can be seen from the fact that in
August 1936 he personally wrote a “Memorandum on the Four-Year
Plan 1936.” In this memorandum his admiration and fear of the
Soviet system of planned economy were expressed: “The German
economy, however, will learn to understand the new economic
tasks, or it will prove itself to be incapable of continuing to
survive in these modern times in which the Soviet state sets up
a gigantic plan.”
Hitler was convinced of the superiority of the Soviet planned
economy system over the capitalist economic system. This must be
regarded as an essential reason why he so vehemently demanded
and enforced the extension of state control of the economy in
Germany as well.
Hitler attributed the success of National Socialist economic
policy primarily to state control of the economy. From 1940 at
the latest, Hitler increasingly became a proponent of the state
planned economy – partly because he was convinced of the
superiority of the Soviet Union and its economic system. In his
monologs to his inner circle (known as “table talks”) on July
27-28, 1941 Hitler said that “A sensible employment of the
powers of a nation can only be achieved with a planned economy
from above.”
About two weeks later he said: “As far as the planning of the
economy is concerned, we are still very much at the beginning
and I imagine it will be something wonderfully nice to build up
an encompassing German and European economic order.” The
statement that as far as the planning of the economy was
concerned one was still at the very beginning is important
because it shows that Hitler was not thinking at all of a
reduction of state intervention – not even for the time after
the war – but, on the contrary, intended to expand the
instruments of state control of the economy even further.
On July 5, 1942 Hitler expressed the opinion that if the German
economy had been able so far to deal with innumerable problems
“… this was also due in the end to the fact that the direction
of the economy had gradually become more controlled by the
state. Only thus had it been possible to enforce the overall
national objective against the interests of individual groups.
Even after the war we would not be able to renounce state
control of the economy, because then every interest group would
think exclusively of the fulfillment of its wishes.”
Hitler’s view of the Soviet economic system apparently also
changed from skepticism to admiration. In a table talk on July
22, 1942, Hitler vehemently defended the Soviet economic system
and even the so-called “Stachanow System,” which it was
“exceedingly stupid” to ridicule: “One has to have unqualified
respect for Stalin. In his way, the guy is quite a genius! His
ideals such as Genghis Khan and so forth he knows very well, and
his economic planning is so all-encompassing that it is only
exceeded by our own Four-Year Plan. I have no doubts whatsoever
that there have been no unemployed in the USSR, as opposed to
capitalist countries such as the USA.”
...
Hitler’s admiration for the Soviet system is also confirmed in
the notes of Wilhelm Scheidt, who—as adjutant to Hitler’s
“representative for military history” Walther Scherff and a
member of the Führer Headquarters group—had close contact with
Hitler and sometimes even took part in briefings. Scheidt writes
that Hitler underwent a “conversion to Bolshevism.” From
Hitler’s remarks, he says, the following reactions could be
derived: “Firstly, Hitler was enough of a materialist to be the
first to recognise the enormous armament achievements of the
USSR in the context of her strong, generous and all-encompassing
economic organisation.”[/quote]
Source :
How Hitler Became a Believer in the State-Planned Economy.
(2024, February 6). Foundation for Economic Education.
HTML https://fee.org/articles/how-hitler-became-a-believer-in-the-state-planned-economy/
#Post#: 27721--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 3, 2024, 12:25 pm
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[quote]Hitler’s view of the Soviet economic system apparently
also changed from skepticism to admiration.[/quote]
Again, not admiration:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/western-revisionism-of-wwi-and-wwii/msg27720/#msg27720
Indeed I already dealt with the same quote you have posted
above:
[quote]“One has to have unqualified respect for Stalin. In his
way, the guy is quite a genius! His ideals such as Genghis Khan
and so forth he knows very well, and his economic planning is so
all-encompassing that it is only exceeded by our own Four-Year
Plan.[/quote]
in this post:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/western-revisionism-of-wwi-and-wwii/msg24528/#msg24528
[quote]It is only correct to say that Hitler dared not
underestimate Stalin:
"Stalin, too, must command our unconditional respect. In his own
way he is a hell of a fellow ! He knows his models, Genghiz Khan
and the others, very well, and the scope of his industrial
planning is exceeded only by our own Four Year Plan."
When Hitler uses the term 'respect', it is in the sense of
viewing Stalin as a serious threat not to be taken lightly, not
in the sense of viewing him as a rolemodel. [/quote]
Accurately seeing how dangerous Stalin was is not admiration. By
your logic you will say I am an admirer of Pierce because I
posted this:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-we-lose/msg644/#msg644
If you post the same claim one more time, I will move all your
posts on this subject to the debate forum.
#Post#: 27730--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: September 3, 2024, 10:49 pm
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From Exposing Hitler as Zionist Telegram Channel
link :
HTML https://t.me/exposinghitler/1756
HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/d9c856b4cac9574c4196313cd9cca275/43b215f75ffd9e37-6c/s640x960/a46ac5264908d921b47e1f0ab340bc8d82d88266.jpg
#Post#: 27739--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: September 4, 2024, 8:57 pm
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[quote]In public Hitler was always anti-Marxist, and in an age
in which the Soviet Union was the only socialist state on earth,
and with anti-Bolshevism a large part of his popular appeal, he
may have been understandably reluctant to speak openly of his
sources. His megalomania, in any case, would have prevented him
from calling himself anyone's disciple.
...
Hermann Rauschning, for example, a Danzig Nazi who knew Hitler
before and after his accession to power in 1933, tells how in
private Hitler acknowledged his profound debt to the Marxian
tradition. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism" he once
remarked, "as I do not hesitate to admit". He was proud of a
knowledge of Marxist texts acquired in his student days before
the First World War and later in a Bavarian prison, in 1924,
after the failure of the Munich putsch.
...
The socialism of the future would lie in "the community of the
volk", not in internationalism, he claimed, and his task was to
"convert the German volk to socialism without simply killing off
the old individualists", meaning the entrepreneurial and
managerial classes left from the age of liberalism. They should
be used, not destroyed. The state could control, after all,
without owning, guided by a single party, the economy could be
planned and directed without dispossessing the propertied
classes.
...
The Lost Literature of Socialism by George Watson is published
by Lutterworth, pounds 15[/quote]
Source :
Hitler and the socialist dream by George Watson Sunday 22
November 1998 01:02 GMT
HTML https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html
#Post#: 27740--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 4, 2024, 9:20 pm
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There is no contradiction between Hitler knowing Marxism
extremely well and being anti-Marxist. To be competently
anti-something, you have to know it well. By your logic, since I
know Judaism so well by now, therefore I am not anti-Judaic!
Why are you trying so desperately to link Hitler to Marxism as
if that is the only possible way to prove Hitler was a
socialist? The original point of this topic is that you can be a
socialist without being a Marxist, as Zea_mays already explained
thoroughly:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10612/#msg10612<br
/>(and subsequent posts)
You are wasting our time with your drivel.
#Post#: 27751--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: Marxism Date: September 5, 2024, 8:09 pm
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Marxism is atheistic, which is to say blasphemous, believes in
the equality of all men under the boot of the machine, and wants
it's state (satanic) to encompass all aspects of reality.
Marxism desires to create an amorphous slave mass (with the
accursed knowledge/technology that they possess) that can be
easily controlled and manipulated.
In my opinion, the west as a whole has pretty much already been
totally bolshevized, and the only other civilizational force
able to defeat the bolshevized west in the battle or world
domination is the Islamic world. That's why the Islamic world
must wake up and prepare itself for the great challenge that
awaits us.
As for the non-Muslim former colonized people, they can chose to
form a brotherly alliance with the people of Islam or they can
chose to form alliances with their former colonizers. If the
latter is the case then they can enjoy the humiliation that
comes with being bolshevized.
I don't hate Russia or the Russian people, I just don't like
Marxism.
#Post#: 27752--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 5, 2024, 8:21 pm
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"I don't hate Russia or the Russian people"
You should.
"I just don't like Marxism."
This is how Russia behaved prior to Marxism:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/
Also, here is how Russia is behaving post-Marxism:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/duginism/
#Post#: 27898--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: September 18, 2024, 8:59 pm
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One article to learn about Hitler's socialist economic policies
[quote]On April 6, 1941, Hitler bragged about his victorious
45-day battle against the western Allies, declaring, “It is
already war history how the German Armies defeated the legions
of capitalism and plutocracy.”
...
The Nazis were belligerent toward small businesses and trade
associations. On July 15, 1933, the Third Reich made membership
in cartels mandatory, while a year later, all business and trade
associations were reorganized and put under the control of the
state.
...
Companies were forced to make loans to the Third Reich. Some
Nazi leaders even proposed a ban on any trading of bonds and
stocks, attributing international trade and security markets to
“Jewish capital.” Nazi administrators discouraged the issuance
of new shares of stocks while at the same time delisting some
companies’ stocks that were already trading on the German stock
exchange.
...
“the Nazis also introduced a progressive income tax that
shifted a far greater tax burden onto corporations and the very
rich,”...
...
Moreover, in an effort to socialize the economy, Germany was
turning into an informant-surveillance state. Small business
owners had to provide daily reports to local Nazi officials on
what was “discussed in Herr Schultz’s bakery and Herr Schmidt’s
butcher shop.” If shopkeepers grumbled too much, they would be
considered “enemies of the state,” and could suffer the loss of
their business license or lose quotas for often scarce goods.
...
As for shortages, one American magazine reported in 1937 that
Germany was having the “most serious food shortage” since the
first war. German restaurants were ordered to limit their menus.
A popular German ditty exposing the discontent went: “Hitler has
no wife; the farmer has no sow [seeds]; the butcher has no meat;
that is the Third Reich.”[/quote]
Source :
L.K. Samuels: How Anti-Capitalist Were the German National
Socialists?
HTML https://stoppingsocialism.com/2022/11/l-k-samuels-how-anti-capitalist-were-the-german-national-socialists/
#Post#: 28112--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: October 3, 2024, 8:15 pm
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Short Description on Hitler's Economic Policy
[quote]During the period of Nazi rule (January 30, 1933 to May
5, 1945), the government-controlled press and party organs
launched very savage attacks on the concept of capitalism and
classical liberal notions of the role of private property in
German society and the economy. There were four periods where
the Nazis engaged in furious attacks against capitalism:
1. During the “revolutionary” period of 1933 and 1934.
2. During the Four Year Plan period of 1936 to 1938.
3. During the Nazi-Soviet alliance of 1939 to 1941.
4. During the height of the war against the Allies (1943 to
1945).
The Nazis opined that private property was to serve the
interests of the state as embodied in the hegemony of the
National Socialist German Workers’ Party. The Nazi legal
theorist E.R. Huber noted that “’Private property’ as conceived
under the liberalistic economic order was a reversal of the true
concept of property. This private property’ represented the
right of the individual to manage and to speculate with
inherited or acquired property as he pleased, without regard for
the general interests...German socialism had to overcome this
private, that is, unrestrained and irresponsible view of
property. All property is common property. The owner is bound by
the people and the Reich to the responsible management of his
goods. His legal position is only justified when he satisfies
this responsibility to the community.’ E.R. Huber wrote in 1936:
“Should the property of a Volksgenosse be put in the service of
a public task, an expropriation has taken place even where the
formal deed of ownership remains.” …[/quote]
Source :
The Nazi War Against Capitalism by Nevin Gussack Page 36
HTML https://archive.org/details/the-nazi-war-against-capitalism/page/n35/mode/2up
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