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#Post#: 20621--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: christianbethel Date: June 24, 2023, 3:36 pm
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I think Zea_mays has already answered this, but is there a way
we can successfully associate true authentic socialism with
anti-tribalism?
#Post#: 20632--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: June 24, 2023, 10:00 pm
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[quote]I think Zea_mays has already answered this, but is there
a way we can successfully associate true authentic socialism
with anti-tribalism?[/quote]
Still no way, we must implement National Socialism through
different form.
#Post#: 20788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is Counterculture Still Alive?
By: SA Date: July 5, 2023, 7:42 am
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#Post#: 21822--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 31, 2023, 1:55 am
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National Socialist economy were autocratic socialist
[quote]Peter Temin wrote about this in Soviet and Nazi Economic
Planning, stating:
Both governments reorganized industry into larger units,
ostensibly to increase state control over economic activity. The
Nazis reorganized industry into 13 administrative groups with a
larger number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy for
state control. The state could therefore direct a firm’s
activities without acquiring direct ownership of enterprises.
The pre-existing tendency to form cartels was encouraged to
eliminate competition that would destabilize prices.
...
The Nazis, ironically, called this reorganization
“privatization,” although the owners of these corporations were
either removed from board positions and replaced by Nazi Party
members or sold out and became Nazi Party members. ...
...
This German businessman also complained of “arbitrary government
decisions concerning quantity, quality, and prices of foreign
raw materials.” But businessmen were not the only members of the
private sector who faced mass amounts of bureaucracy and
control. The farmers faced it as well.
...
Farming price subsidies were also common in the Nazi Reich even
before World War II broke out. The RNS was created to fix prices
and create production controls in agriculture. In his book
Hitler’s Beneficiaries, German historian Götz Aly describes the
measures the German government took in the farming sector.
Götz states, “The prices producers were paid for milk and
potatoes were raised by 25 to 35 percent in the course of the
war.” These subsidies would cause shortages as early as August
1939, when meat and eggs rationing was imposed to keep the
industry focused on grain production.
...
Because of this, people may reach the conclusion that prewar
life was bad for the Jews, but beneficial for non-Jewish
citizens. It is true that Jews suffered immensely, not only
socially but also economically. At the start of 1933, there were
an estimated hundred thousand Jewish businesses; by 1938, only
39,552 remained. In the same year, a capital levy was put on
Jews; they needed to register all their assets with the local
tax office, which placed a 20 percent and later a 25 percent
capital levy on them.
But for ordinary non-Jewish citizens, life was also hard.
Private sale negotiations were subject to official rules, these
rules being set selling prices for whatever good someone had. If
a dealer wanted to increase his prices, he must get a special
permit from a price commissar, who needed a detailed statement
of necessity and other data such as production and distribution
costs.[/quote]
Source :
Yes, They Were Socialists: How the Nazis Waged War on Private
Property, John Kennedy, 5th July 2022
HTML https://mises.org/wire/yes-they-were-socialists-how-nazis-waged-war-private-property
#Post#: 24010--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 23, 2023, 6:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Mainstream journalism finally acknowledges it:
HTML https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/far-left-hatred-jews-today-090057215.html
[quote]Far-left hatred of Jews today echoes the socialism and
antisemitism of Hitler in the 1930s
...
far-left groups flooded college campuses recently accusing
Jewish people of global conspiracies — and then demanding that
Israel be destroyed.
The National Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), for
example — a network of pro-Palestinian student groups — wrote in
its "Day of Resistance Toolkit" that "the forces of Zionism
engage in media campaigns which attack our people." It calls for
"resistance from all sides," as it shared on campuses nationwide
in October.
The toolkit demands the "decolonization" of Israel with
"confrontation by any means necessary."
...
The group argues that the United States and Canada are
illegitimate colonizing powers — just as the group believes
Israel is as well.
It turns out these toxic tenets of socialism and antisemitism
have very deep roots — roots planted by the notorious National
Socialist German Workers Party in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s.
This far-left hate group is known to most people today as Adolf
Hitler’s Nazi Party.
The National Socialists seized total control of Germany by
spewing both rage against capitalism and rage against Jews.
...
The party's very public war on "bourgeois" capitalism and
private enterprise, however, today appears to be forgotten,
ignored or rewritten by some academics and leftists who deny
Hitler's National Socialists were actually socialists.
Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution,
told Fox News Digital on this topic, "Nazi taxation and
subsidies for most people were more or less purely socialist, as
it professed."
...
here are five ways that far-left antisemitism in the public
square appears to flow from the platform of the National
Socialist German Workers Party — the Nazis — the original
left-wing hate group, judging by both words and actions.
The National Socialist German Workers Party platform offered a
wish list of collectivist economic ideas.
"We demand," the party's 25 Theses stated, "abolition of incomes
unearned by work [investment income] … the ruthless confiscation
of all war profits … nationalization of all businesses which
have been formed into corporations … profit-sharing in large
industrial enterprises."
The National Socialists also promised, and delivered on,
centralized control of education, media and information.
...
National Socialist doctrine also demanded and secured individual
devotion to the state, ruled by one man — and the elimination of
a legislative branch with authority to challenge the party
leader.
"The National State must work untiringly to set all government …
free from the principle of control by majorities," Hitler wrote
in "Mein Kampf," all about a world with no democracy, no
capitalism and no Jews.
The National Socialist German Workers Party wasted no time in
savaging private enterprise when it seized control of Germany in
1934.
...
Many leftists and academics today claim that "right-wing" Nazis
co-opted the word "socialist" and that Hitler’s National
Socialism was different than the beneficent socialism they
preach.
...
Hitler never wavered from his socialist identity. "An inexorable
National Socialist and a fighter for my people," he thundered
about himself in his last major radio address on Jan. 30, 1945,
while vilifying Judaism and capitalism until the very end.
...
the far-left dictatorship has been recast in popular opinion as
a right-wing hate group, even though that label is refuted by
the party's own language, philosophy, platform, actions and
self-identity.
...
Hitler’s rage against capitalism and Judaism stemmed from the
belief that Jews controlled media and financial markets and
profited from Germany’s defeat in World War I.
...
Hamas also echoes Hitler's National Socialist conspiracies of
global Jewish dominance and war profiteering in its founding
platform.
"With their money, [Jews] took control of the world media, news
agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations,
and others," Hamas states in its 1988 charter.
Jews "were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy
the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling
resources … They were behind World War II, through which they
made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the
way for the establishment of their state."[/quote]
#Post#: 27027--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: July 14, 2024, 9:38 pm
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National Socialist economic system were socialist
[quote]“In Nazi Germany,” Mises tells us, the property owners
“were called shop managers or Betriebsführer. The government
tells these seeming entrepreneurs what and how to produce, at
what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to
sell. The government decrees at what wages labourers should
work, and to whom and under what terms the capitalists should
entrust their funds. Market exchange is but a sham. As all
prices, wages and interest rates are fixed by the authority,
they are prices, wages and interest rates in appearance only; in
fact they are merely quantitative terms in the authoritarian
orders determining each citizen’s income, consumption and
standard of living. The authority, not the consumers, directs
production. The central board of production management is
supreme; all citizens are nothing else but civil servants. This
is socialism with the outward appearance of capitalism. Some
labels of the capitalistic market economy are retained, but they
signify here something entirely different from what they mean in
the market economy.”[/quote]
Source :
Calton, C. (2017, October 30). The Myth of “Nazi Capitalism.”
Mises Institute.
HTML https://mises.org/austrian/myth-nazi-capitalism
#Post#: 27475--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 20, 2024, 10:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
National Socialism did not influence apartheid ideology
[quote]The Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (AWB — Afrikaner
Resistance Movement) carried on a remarkably sophisticated and
widespread campaign of violent resistance to black rule. At its
height, the AWB was supported by a relatively large percentage
of the white population and had working relationships with
influential political and military figures. The group was well
armed, well trained, and gifted with a charismatic leader,
Eugene Terre’Blanche.
...
The most frequent charge against the AWB was that it was a group
of “Nazis.” While the group’s explicitly Christian ideology and
traditionalist leanings were far removed from National
Socialism, it must be conceded that the AWB’s aesthetic tone did
not help. A party cannot have a logo that looks like a swastika,
overt anti-Semitism, a giant eagle over the head of the main
speaker at rallies, and a red, black, and white color scheme
without giving people ideas.[/quote]
Source :
Posted on May 10, 2024. The Story of the AWB of South Africa
Gregory Hood, American Renaissance, May 3, 2013
HTML https://www.amren.com/news/2024/05/the-story-of-the-awb-of-south-africa/
#Post#: 27524--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 23, 2024, 8:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
National Socialism were autocratic socialist
[quote]"Heavy industrialists in firms such as the United
Steelworks, backed behind the scenes by [Hjalmar] Schacht while
he was still in office, objected furiously to this increase in
state ownership and control and to state-subsidised competition
with their own enterprises."
"Göring had their secret meetings bugged and their telephone
conversations tapped and even summoned the two leading
conspirators to his office to play back recordings of their
conversations."[/quote]
Source :
Evans, The Third Reich in Power p.449
[quote]"Fritz Thyssen, one of the major industrialists to give
initial support to Hitler after the seizure of power, on the
assumption that the Nazis would create a paternalistic corporate
state, finally broke with Nazism and fled from Germany."
"His substantial holdings in the Stahlverein were taken over
compulsorily by the state."
"Soon Germany will not be any different from Bolshevik Russia...
The heads of enterprises who do not fulfil the conditions which
the Plan prescribes will be accused of treason against the
German people and shot."[/quote]
Source :
Overy, War and Economy in the Third Reich," p109.
[quote]"[Hitler's] new regime aimed at complete control of
economic as well as social, political, and cultural activities."
"In economics, it interpreted the Depression as evidence of the
failure of the private market economy and of the necessity of
state intervention."
"...The National Socialist New Order inherited from the
Depression governments a network of controls and proceeded to
make it ever more extensive."
"In 1934 a system of managed trade was inaugurated, as well as
the allocation of raw materials and the restriction of dividend
payments; and after 1936 came a far-reaching regulation of
prices."
"It was an economy without a market mechanism, which was
supposed to behave as its new masters wished."
"Prices are essential to the market: their suppression and
distortion leads to a command economy."[/quote]
Source :
James, The Nazi Dictatorship and the Deutsche Bank," p11 - 12
[quote]Order of the Reich President for the Protection of People
and State
On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of
the German Reich, the following is ordered in defense against
Communist state-endangering acts of violence:
§ 1. Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the
Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further
notice. It is therefore permissible to restrict the rights of
personal freedom, freedom of (opinion) expression, including the
freedom of the press) the freedom to organize and assemble, the
privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications.
Warrants for House searches, orders for confiscations as well as
restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond he legal
limite otherwise prescribed.[/quote]
Source :
Text of the Reichstag Fire Decree, 28 Feb 1933. Text of the
Weimar Constitution.
[quote]"The Nazis viewed private property as conditional on its
use - not as a fundamental right. If the property was not being
used to further Nazi goals, it could be nationalised."[/quote]
Source :
Termin, "Soviet and Nazi Economic Planning in the 1930s," p576
[quote]"The businessman needs more room for manoeuvre otherwise
he will become merely an employee."
"We entered the war with a much less elastic economy than in
1914; and the effects are visible everywhere."
"The construction of a historical account of the bank in the
Nazi period is particularly difficult, because the written
material relating to business contracts [and] overall
strategy... is much scarcer than that from the republican and
democratic atmosphere of the 1920s."
"Perhaps the shift to a less written culture was simply a
coincidence produced by a move away from nineteenth-century
patterns of behaviour; but it is more obvious to think of it as
emanating from the fear of politics in the dictatorship."
"The party and the secret police were highly interested in
business behaviour..."[/quote]
Source :
James, The Nazi Dictatorship and the Deutsche Bank," p36 and 20
[quote]"...my knowledge as a technical expert would not have
been sufficient to enable me to struggle along during the past
five years, were it not for the fact that our firm has the
backing of a prominent Party man who comes to our assistance
when we need certificates for foreign currency, raw materials,
and so on."
"No firm in our trade can exist without such a "collaborator."
As it is, we have to spend considerable money for "juridical
advice" ..."
"It is virtually impossible to function at all without
maintaining close relations with one of these "lawyers"."
"He can tell you whether or not you have a chance to obtain what
you are seeking. You come to depend upon him
completely."[/quote]
Source :
Industrialist's letter, 15 May 1939, quoted from Reimann, "The
Vampire Economy," p21-22
[quote]"Formerly the purchasing agent and the sales manager were
among the most important members of a business organisation."
"Today the emphasis has shifted and a curious new business aide,
a sort of combination "go-between" and public relations counsel,
is now all-important."
"His job... is to maintain good personal relations with
officials in the Economic Ministry, where he is an almost daily
caller; he studies all the new regulations and decrees, knows
how to interpret them in relation to his particular firm and is
able to guess what may be permitted or forbidden."
"In other words, it is his business to know how far one can go
without getting caught."
"He also develops special knowledge on how to camouflage private
interests so that they appear to be "interests of the community"
or of the State."
"He knows how urgent the demand of a State department or
institution for a certain article may be and the effect of
possible delays in delivery, and, therefore, whether it will be
possible to obtain a higher price or a bonus for speedy
delivery."
"Any firm wishing to remain in business must have such a contact
man, who, if possible, should be personally acquainted with some
high official..."
"Should a firm fail to find a satisfactory contact man and
otherwise have bad luck in establishing good working relations
with officialdom, purest "Aryan" though its members be, it is
likely to be forced out of business."[/quote]
Source :
Reimann, "The Vampire Economy," p43-44. & 46-47
[quote]"In addition, the delivery of some public services that
were produced by government prior to the 1930s, especially
social and labor-related services, was transferred to the
private sector; mainly to organizations within the
party."[/quote]
Source :
Bel, G. "Against the mainstream: Nazi privatization in 1930s
Germany," Universitat de Barcelona, PDF p3 + p9.
[quote]"Both governments [Nazi and Soviet] reorganised industry
into larger units, ostensibly to increase state control over
economic activity."
"The Nazis reorganised industry into 13 administrative groups
with a large number of subgroups to create a private hierarchy
for state control."
"The state therefore could direct the firms' activities without
acquiring direct ownership of enterprises."[/quote]
Source :
Tooze, "Wages of Destruction," page 112.
[quote]"The only person in Germany who still has a private life
is a person who's sleeping."[/quote]
Source :
Robert Ley, Head of the German Labour Front, quoted from Evans,
"The Third Reich in Power," p107.
#Post#: 27533--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 24, 2024, 8:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
National Socialist's state-guided economic system
[quote]"The difference between this and the Russian system is
much less than you think, despite the fact that officially we
are still independent businessmen."
"Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories,
so that they will have a better understanding of the present
economic system."
"How can we possibly manage a firm according to business
principles if it is impossible to make any predictions as to the
prices at which goods are to be bought and sold? We are
completely dependent on arbitrary Government decisions
concerning quantity, quality and prices for foreign raw
materials."
"You cannot imagine how taxation has increased. Yet everyone is
afraid to complain about it. The new State loans are nothing but
confiscation of private property, because no one believed that
the Government will ever make repayment, nor even pay interest
after the first few years."
"We businessmen still make sufficient profit, sometimes even
large profits, but we never know how much we are going to be
able to keep..."
...
"There exists no law which binds the State. The State can do
what it regards as necessary, because it has the authority."
"The next stage of National-Socialist economic policy consists
of replacing capitalist laws by policy."
"The life of the German businessman is full of contradictions.
He cordially dislikes the gigantic, top-heavy, bureaucratic
State machine which is strangling his economic independence. Yet
he needs the aid of these despised bureaucrats more and more,
and is forced to run after them, begging for concessions,
privileges, grants, in fear that his competitor will gain the
advantage."
"Such a system also changes the psychology of businessmen. Their
experiences teach them that the old right of property no longer
exists. They find themselves compelled to respect the "national
interest" or the "welfare of the community."
"Businessmen must claim that everything they do, any new
business for which they want a certificate, any preferment in
the supply of raw materials, etc., is "in the interest of the
national community."[/quote]
Source :
German businessman to American businessman, from Reimann, "The
Vampire Economy," (no page number on Kindle).
[quote]"The decree of February 28, 1933, nullified article 153
of the Weimar Constitution which guaranteed private property and
restricted interference with private property in accordance with
certain legally defined conditions... The conception of property
has experienced a fundamental change. The individualistic
conception of the State - a result of the liberal spirit - must
give way to the concept that communal welfare precedes
individual welfare. (Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz)."[/quote]
Source :
Reference Jahrbuch des Oeffentlichen Rechtes der Gegenward, ed.
by Otto Koellreuther (1935), p. 267. - Quoted from Reimann, "The
Vampire Economy".
Hitler's economic system was in accordance with Karl Marx's
theory of how a socialist economy works
[quote]Marx called for -"5. Centralisation of credit in the
hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State
capital and an exclusive monopoly."[/quote]
Source :
Karl Marx, Communist Manifesto, P26.
[quote]Hitler believed in the 'Primacy of Politics'
This is a Socialist concept which says that free market forces
(economics) should come secondary to political forces.
...socialised man... rationally regulating their interchange
with Nature, bringing it under their common control, instead of
being ruled by it as by the blind forces of Nature..'
- Marx, Das Kapital v3 P593.
The National Socialists were NOT 'driven by profit'
The Corporations were controlled by the State and the State
attempted to redistribute 'profits' to the poor.
The Market was NOT allowed to operate freely and collective
controls were implemented by the State, which - ...rationally
regulat|ed] their interchange with Nature... " (Karl
Marx)[/quote]
Source :
Zitelmann, "Hitler: The Policies of Seduction," P206-225
#Post#: 27641--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: August 29, 2024, 5:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Capitalism
Private = (individual) control of the means of production
Private = Small, Individual, non-State
Public = big business, corporations, central banks, State
"It is the aim of Socialism to transfer the means of production
from private ownership to the ownership of organized society,
to the State."[/quote]
Source :
References: Mises, Socialism, p45. (2nd ed 1969, 1st ed 1922)
[quote]Socialism: the socialization of the means of production
Socialism: state control of the economy[/quote]
Source :
References:
Dilorenzo, The Problem with Socialism, Kindle. Luxemburg, The
National Question, P24. Marx, Das Kapital v3. P593. Mises,
Socialism, P11-12
Oxford Dictionary of English, Oxford University Press, Third
Edition 2010. P1693.
The American Economic Review, Vol. 1, No. 2, Papers and
Discussions of the Twenty-third Annual Meeting (Apr., 1911), pp.
347-354
Definition of Socialism according to Marx and Engels
[quote]...socialised man, the associated producers, rationally
regulating their interchange with Nature, bringing it under
their common control, instead of being ruled by it as by the
blind forces of Nature..."
Marx & Engels[/quote]
Source :
References : Marx/Engels, Das Kapital v3, P593
[quote]"The leftists believe in strong centralization."
"The leftist is always a statist." - von
Kuehnelt-Leddihn[/quote]
Source :
References: von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, Leftism, P39-40.
[quote]"The 'private sector' of the economy is, in fact, the
voluntary sector; and the 'public sector' is, in fact, the
coercive sector."[/quote]
Source :
References: Higgs, Depression, War and Cold War.
[quote]"Contrary to the accepted Marxist interpretation, Hitler
was not an opponent of Marxism and did not want to destroy it
because he was 'inimical to labour' but because he was caught up
in the insane idea that Marxism was an instrument of the Jews
for the achievement of world domination, and above all because
he rejected internationalism, 'pacifism' and the negation of the
'personality principle' by Marxism."[/quote]
Source :
References: Zitelmann, Hitler: The Politics of Seduction,
P137-138.
[quote]"...National Socialism should not be primarily
interpreted as anti-Marxism. It was rather an alternative,
competing revolutionary movement which did not have the
destruction of Marxism as its main objective but which had to
destroy it, not despite, but because of its proximity to
it."[/quote]
Source :
References: Zitelmann, Hitler: The Politics of Seduction,
P426-427.
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