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       #Post#: 11301--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Aryanism's hostility towards Russia and Eastern European
       people
   DIR By: guest30
       Date: February 16, 2022, 4:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       --- Quote ---
       > So if Rizieq is homophobic, then he should instead support the
       Western colonialists who introduced homophobia to America.
       >
       > Which is more important to Rizieq? Anti-Westernism or
       homophobia?
       --- End Quote ---
       Most of his speeches and da'wa are encourage people to against
       democracy, colonialism, Israel, Zionism, United States hegemony
       and their Western European allies, and people who behave like
       Westerners and liberals, mostly to the Chinese people who live
       in our land, because Nusantara people have bad relationship with
       the Chinese people for 300 years, they always side with Dutch
       colonial government for the sake of their own profit, and he
       also want Nusantara to implement Islamic sharia law to prevent
       capitalist liberal and communism teachings
       And homophobia is not Western teachings, it's indeed Islamic
       teachings, it exist from the born of Islam, not from Western
       people, see this writings from a book named "Dakwah Aktual
       Menggugah Rasa, Membangkitkan Jiwa"
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/38f9baca3c70c820240511c3ec2daa3c/d2f8face5100a838-57/s2048x3072/a7112a2a11c49285d2cb18ff6e06fee68c843773.jpg
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/2dd9e0f1d790fb906285eedc495982e3/1ce8883d76119452-65/s2048x3072/72e47494297ecbe64f4fad7fa8d2205adda155b0.jpg
       Translation to English colonial language :
       Happy Friday Session!
       Although the scholars agree on the prohibition of homosexual
       practice, they differ on the type and form of punishment imposed
       on the perpetrators of homosexuality. This arises because of
       differences in interpreting the arguments that speak of it.
       Among the hadiths that talk about punishment for homosexuals are
       the following hadiths:
       مَنْ
       وَجَدْتُمُوهُ
       يَعْمَلُ
       عَمَلَ
       قَوْمِ
       لُوطٍ
       فَاقْتُلُوا
       الْفَاعِلَ
       وَالْمَفْعُولَ
       بِهِ
       "Whoever you get to do homosexual acts, then kill the two
       perpetrators.!".
       Therefore, among ulama, there are those who argue that the
       punishment for homosexuals is to be burned with fire, crushed
       against a wall, dropped from a high place while being slapped
       with stones, and held in the worst place until death rots.
       Abu Hanifah consider "homosexuals" not adultery because it can't
       resulting making children and unclear descendants
       Imam Malik argues that homosexuals must be punished with thrown
       by stone if he already married, and got whipped if he still
       virgin
       Imam Syafi'i not consider "homosexuals" are adultery, but remain
       punished by thrown by stone if he already married, if he still
       virgin, he got whipped 100x and to be exiled for 1 year, his
       argument is same with the argument from most famous tabi'in like
       Said bin Musayyib, Atha' bin Abi Rabah, An-Nakha'i, al-Hasan,
       and Qatadah
       And you know, the nations who are not "homophobic" are the
       nations whom you want to destroy and their ideology to be
       changed, and a nations who are "homophobic" are the nations whom
       you want to support because of their opposition to Western
       people and their civilization, see this map picture :
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/7343d087c6fae1087b9e5d6ee2bfabe4/c306b63399113e1e-1e/s2048x3072/2af75c674a5544084191133d210438741c4cde7f.png
       Almost all of Islamic nations whom you support because their
       constant opposition to Western Civilization (nations of North
       Africa and Middle East) are considered as "homophobic" because
       it marked as orange in the map, and the Western nations (include
       Israel) which you want to destroy, which marked by red circle
       are mostly not "homophobic"
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/3cbf86494fb0d2385345598188338807/6f4532fe4fc8e3d9-de/s640x960/e36b570dac1b0ad7756107d7648363327dd93e0b.png
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/fbad4e261f0e38568693e33a5c781ce2/510eca957bd9db5c-90/s2048x3072/4abd94838eb116b4214ceba4be0d1dede08cddce.png
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/9d98013eaece3847816871c09d427fb5/c88da2bad0ac08a1-d4/s2048x3072/952f812f4f7688409f48d435a84ed12713cf15eb.png
       Source :
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
       Even the leader whom you like, Saddam Hussein, is against the
       "homosexuals", see this information :
       --- Quote ---
       > In 1995, Saddam Hussein created a new military unit called,
       Fedayeen Saddam ("Saddam's Men of Sacrifice") to punish Iraqis
       whose behavior or life-style was deemed to be in violation
       traditional Islamic mores. This group operated similar to an
       armed Mutaween (religious police), and often staged public
       torture and executions of LGBT people as women who had sex
       outside of marriage.[8][9]
       >
       > In 1999, an urban legend began to circulate that the Iraqi
       government banned the South Park television series, and feature
       film, because it depicted Saddam Hussein being involved in a
       homosexual relationship with Satan. [1] While the film would not
       have been approved by the Iraqi censorship board, western film
       makers did not attempt to exhibit films in Iraq because of the
       economic sanctions.
       >
       > In 2001, the IRCC Resolution 234 of 2001 was enacted that
       established the death penalty for adultery, being involved with
       prostitution, and anyone who, "Commits the crime of sodomy with
       a male or female or who violates the honor of a male or female
       without his or her consent and under the threat of arm or by
       force in a way that the life of the victim (male or female) is
       threatened" [2]
       --- End Quote ---
       Source :
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iraq
       Even the country which you like because if it's constant
       opposition to Western hegemony, are "homophobic", see this
       information :
       --- Quote ---
       > Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in the
       Islamic Republic of Iran face legal challenges not experienced
       by non-LGBT residents. Sexual activity between members of the
       same sex is illegal and can be punishable by up to death, and
       people can legally change their assigned sex only through a sex
       reassignment surgery.
       >
       > LGBT rights in Iran have come in conflict with the penal code
       since the 1930s.[2] In post-revolutionary Iran, any type of
       sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage is forbidden.
       Same-sex sexual activities are punishable by imprisonment,[3]
       corporal punishment, fines, or execution.[4] Gay men have faced
       stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.
       >
       > The government of Iran is considered to be one of the most
       discriminatory towards homosexuals in the world.[5][6][7] It is
       estimated that hundreds or thousands[8][9][10] of people were
       executed in the immediate aftermath of revolution of whom some
       20 were homosexuals. Ruhollah Khomeini called them to be
       exterminated in 1979.[11]
       >
       > Transgender identity is recognized through a sex reassignment
       surgery. Sex reassignment surgeries are partially financially
       supported by the state. Some homosexual individuals in Iran have
       been pressured to undergo sex reassignment surgery in order to
       avoid legal and social persecution.[12] Iran carries out more
       sex reassignment surgeries than any other country in the world
       after Thailand.
       --- End Quote ---
       Source :
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran
       Muammar Kaddafi, leader whom you like because of his constant
       opposition to the Western hegemony, are "homophobic", see this
       information :
       --- Quote ---
       > Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in
       Libya face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT
       residents. Since the fall of Gaddafi regime in 2011, the status
       regarding homosexuality in Libya remains unchanged.
       >
       > ...
       >
       > Gaddafi Government
       >
       > The Gaddafi government did not permit the public advocacy of
       LGBT rights. When discussed, it was always in a negative manner,
       in keeping with traditional Islamic morality.[8]
       >
       > In 2003, Gaddafi stated that he believed that it was
       "impossible" to contract AIDS–HIV through unprotected,
       heterosexual vaginal sex.[9]
       --- End Quote ---
       Source :
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Libya
       Syria, the nation which you like because it's constant
       opposition to the Western hegemony, are "homophobic", see this
       information :
       --- Quote ---
       > Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in the
       Syrian Arab Republic face legal challenges not experienced by
       non-LGBT residents. Article 520 of the penal code of 1949,
       prohibits "carnal relations against the order of nature", and
       provides for up to three years' imprisonment.[2][3]
       --- End Quote ---
       Source :
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Syria
       So, which is the best bad options, supporting democratic
       pro-Western movements but not "homophobic" [b](False Left Right
       Wing Collaborator), or anti-Western but still "homophobic"
       (Potential Leftist)?[/b]
       Which is the best bad options, supporting people who emphatic
       with the "homosexuals", but they have democratic liberal
       mindset, and also homo hubris and Faustian mindset [b](False
       Left Right Wing Collaborator), or people who are "homophobic"
       but against Western democratic liberal and it's pervert
       philosophy, support dictatorship and opposition to Western
       hegemony (Potential Leftist) ?[/b]
       The struggle of political power in my nation is not between
       racist people against the not racist people, but struggle of two
       opposite political movements between democratic liberal
       anti-racist which tend to support political liberalism which
       resulting negotiate peace with Israel, and autocratic
       anti-racist which remain hostile to the West and Israel
       I will choose the latter
       --- Quote ---
       > I know what is most important to you, though:
       >
       >
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/aryanism's-hostility-towards-russia-and-eastern-european-people/msg8718/#msg8718
       >
       > [quote]I like Western suits only because of it's quality and
       comfortable to be seen by other people, it makes me look
       handsome
       --- End Quote ---
       So here you go:
  HTML https://pictures-nigeria.jijistatic.com/23764294_1543755208028_721x960.jpg
       ;D[/quote]
       After I got criticized by some of muslim people because of my
       clothes, which they consider it as imitate the Zionist people,
       and also after I see that many people who like to follow Western
       democratic liberal values tend to like to wear such clothes
       (Mostly the Chinese people on our land), I change my behaviour,
       remember, not all people cannot change themselves to be a
       something better...
       By the way, what is your response on the information which I
       already show to you before, you afraid to see that your lovely
       nation Jeffersonian Republic doing something wrong?
       --- Quote ---
       > "In the official report "Rand Corporation" it is stated that
       the US Department of State and the US Agency for International
       Development (USAID) have made "contracts" with international
       NGOs such as The National Endowment for Democracy (NED), The
       International Republican Institute (IRI), The National
       Democratic Institute (NDI), The Center for The Study of Islam
       and Democracy (CSID) and The Asia Foundation. In addition, there
       are other NGOs formed by the Zionist International (Freemasonry
       / Illuminati) that have good relations with the "Rand
       Corporation", such as the Ford Foundation and Rockefeller.
       >
       > the contract. to build a "Worldwide Network of Liberal Muslims
       - Moderates of the United States" In order to make the program a
       success, the United States has spent billions of dollars. US$
       700 million/year has been disbursed by the US for the Middle
       East, while for Indonesia, US$ 60 million has been disbursed for
       2004, US$ 78 million for 2005, and US$ 84 for year. 2006, US $
       96 million for 2007, US $ 143 million for 2008 and US $ 184
       million for 2009.
       >
       > In Indonesia, the most persistent in carrying out the
       Religious Liberalization program with the US program is the
       AKKBB (National Alliance for Freedom of Religion and Belief),
       which is a liquid alliance that brings together less than 65
       organizations, NGOs, sects and religions, including: Indonesian
       Language Conference on Religion and Peace (ICRP), National
       Integration Movement (NIM), The Wahid Institute, Tifa
       Foundation, Kontras, YLBHI, eLSAM, Campus Islamic Network (JIK),
       Liberal Islam Network (JIL), Women's Journal Foundation,
       Institute for Religious and Philosophical Studies ( LSAF),
       Society for Interfaith Dialogue, National Alliance for Unity in
       Diversity, Institute for the Study of Religion and Gender, Tunas
       Muda Indonesia Foundation, and the Indonesian Ahmadiyya
       Congregation (JAI)."
       >
       > Source : "Hancurkan Liberalisme, Tegakkan Syariat Islam" -
       Habib Rizieq Shihab page 30
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 11324--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Aryanism's hostility towards Russia and Eastern European
       people
   DIR By: guest55
       Date: February 16, 2022, 11:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > And homophobia is not Western teachings, it's indeed Islamic
       teachings, it exist from the born of Islam, not from Western
       people, see this writings from a book named "Dakwah Aktual
       Menggugah Rasa, Membangkitkan Jiwa"
       --- End Quote ---
       What came first, the Hebrew Bible or "Dakwah Aktual Menggugah
       Rasa, Membangkitkan Jiwa"?
       --- Quote ---
       > The Hellenistic Jewish philosopher Philo (20 BC – 50 AD)
       described the inhabitants of Sodom in an extra-biblical account:
       >
       > As men, being unable to bear discreetly a satiety of these
       things, get restive like cattle, and become stiff-necked, and
       discard the laws of nature, pursuing a great and intemperate
       indulgence of gluttony, and drinking, and unlawful connections;
       for not only did they go mad after other women, and defile the
       marriage bed of others, but also those who were men lusted after
       one another, doing unseemly things, and not regarding or
       respecting their common nature, and though eager for children,
       they were convicted by having only an abortive offspring; but
       the conviction produced no advantage, since they were overcome
       by violent desire; and so by degrees, the men became accustomed
       to be treated like women, and in this way engendered among
       themselves the disease of females, and intolerable evil; for
       they not only, as to effeminacy and delicacy, became like women
       in their persons, but they also made their souls most ignoble,
       corrupting in this way the whole race of men, as far as depended
       on them. (133-35; ET Jonge 422-23).[17]
       --- End Quote ---
       --- Quote ---
       > The Jewish historian Josephus (AD 37 – c. 100) used the term
       “Sodomites” in summarizing the Genesis narrative:
       >
       > About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their
       riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and
       impious towards God, in so much that they did not call to mind
       the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and
       abused themselves with Sodomitical practices” "Now when the
       Sodomites saw the young men to be of beautiful countenances, and
       this to an extraordinary degree, and that they took up their
       lodgings with Lot, they resolved themselves to enjoy these
       beautiful boys by force and violence; and when Lot exhorted them
       to sobriety, and not to offer any thing immodest to the
       strangers, but to have regard to their lodging in his house; and
       promised that if their inclinations could not be governed, he
       would expose his daughters to their lust, instead of these
       strangers; neither thus were they made ashamed. (Antiquities
       1.11.1,3) [18] — c. AD 96)
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_Hebrew_Bible
       Pretty sick ****, I'll agree. Especially for children to read,
       but not because of homosexuality. Why introduce children to
       "sex" at all unless they specifically request to be disciplined
       on the subject? You people love this kind of stuff though
       apparently and have no problem reading it and digesting it at
       all!? If it were up to Western rightists this stuff would be
       forced down children's throats in school! You want children in
       school to learn about the "disease of females" and you believe
       yourself to be a good person by doing so?
       The True Left does not accept all Hadith's either:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/ancient-world/inspired-by-muhammad/?message=9307
       #Post#: 11325--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Aryanism's hostility towards Russia and Eastern European
       people
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: February 16, 2022, 11:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "it's indeed Islamic teachings"
       We already covered this:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/aryanism's-hostility-towards-russia-and-eastern-european-people/msg7971/#msg7971
       "Muammar Kaddafi, leader whom you like because of his constant
       opposition to the Western hegemony, are "homophobic""
       Gaddafi had not socially decolonized enough. (His speciality was
       dress decolonization.) Though if he had not been killed, perhaps
       he might have socially decolonized more by now.
       "So, which is the best bad options, supporting democratic
       pro-Western movements but not "homophobic" (False Left Right
       Wing Collaborator), or anti-Western but still "homophobic"
       (Potential Leftist)?"
       Counterculture-influenced (hence non-homophobic) people living
       in Western countries need to be taught to abandon democracy.
       Non-Westerners need to be taught that non-Western civilizations
       were not homophobic prior to Western colonization. Both of these
       goals can be pursued at the same time. This is the only way to
       unite the two groups, failing which rightists will win.
       --- Quote ---
       > The struggle of political power in my nation is not between
       racist people against the not racist people, but struggle of two
       opposite political movements between democratic liberal
       anti-racist which tend to support political liberalism which
       resulting negotiate peace with Israel, and autocratic
       anti-racist which remain hostile to the West and Israel
       >
       > I will choose the latter
       --- End Quote ---
       You can choose the latter while also opposing homophobia. Then
       we can be allies. (Also, how can the former call itself
       "anti-racist" but support Israel?)
       
       #Post#: 11338--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Aryanism's hostility towards Russia and Eastern European
       people
   DIR By: guest30
       Date: February 17, 2022, 6:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       --- Quote ---
       > You can choose the latter while also opposing homophobia. Then
       we can be allies.
       --- End Quote ---
       Then in return, United States need to stop spreading wrong
       ideology, don't let the them promote Western democracy and
       liberalism, and also it's pervert Greece-influenced philosophy
       like John Locke, Voltaire (Anti-Islam philosopher), Adam Smith,
       Karl Marx, Nietschze, Stoicism, Aristoteles, Nihilism, and many
       of their immoral and kuffar teachings, and also we don't need
       pyschological teachings from the West to know about morality, if
       psychological teachings from the West are morally correct, then
       Western colonization will end on 19th century
       And promoting opposition to homophobia is not good to the
       Islamic people right now, so better we propose less violence
       treatment to the "homosexuals", most of muslim people around the
       world believe that is required to condemn "homosexuals" to be a
       good muslims
       --- Quote ---
       > ...(Also, how can the former call itself "anti-racist" but
       support Israel?)
       --- End Quote ---
       The false-left people of my nation consider all human are same,
       all religion are same, it teaches same good morality,
       progressivism and Westernization is more good for them rather
       than socialism (Or work together with community for the sake of
       people's empathic living), and also make a good relations with
       Israel is not a problem because it benefit the nation's economy,
       and maintaining peace to the world is correct to them rather
       than against the evil oppressor, because against the evil
       oppressor is considered as "intolerance", "immature", and
       "unproductive"
       And their arguments about Israel is, it just a nation which
       there are also Islamic and Christian people on it, not just the
       Jews, so there is no reason to against Israel, and being hostile
       to Jews are racist according to them, because they are fellow
       human being like us
       And also, they consider people like me who want Islamic values
       rule Nusantara people like before independence, which resulting
       constant opposition to any Western colonialism, is a "backward",
       "Arabized" and "intolerant" people, because Islamic values are
       not compatible with today age which many nations using democracy
       and progressivism as their value, but they have no problem with
       implicit liberalization and Westernization of Nusantara, they
       called it as "tolerance" and "progress"
       @Mazda
       --- Quote ---
       > What came first, the Hebrew Bible or "Dakwah Aktual Menggugah
       Rasa, Membangkitkan Jiwa"?
       --- End Quote ---
       Both Quran and Hebrew Bible contain verse which condemn
       "homosexuals", that is the only explicit similarity between
       Islamic teachings and Jewish teachings
       #Post#: 12285--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Aryanism's hostility towards Russia and Eastern European
       people
   DIR By: Musso
       Date: March 26, 2022, 2:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There were absolutely zero friendly relations between Zionists
       and NS... ZERO !
       Even the Jews who fought for Hitler refused to leave Germany
       before, during and after the war. The Jews have even made up a
       coin and claim that it is a proof of cooperation between NS and
       Zionist. On the coin it says "Nazi" which none of the NS people
       would ever call themselves the coin also just says 'Angriff' on
       it instead of 'Der Angriff' -- which was the full/official title
       of a newspaper so, yeah; the coin is fishy as hell they also
       claim that there were something like 7 articles written about it
       in the newspaper that accompanied the coin, but I have yet to
       see a single one of these alleged 'articles' anywhere
       #Post#: 12484--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Diplomatic decolonization
   DIR By: Dazhbog
       Date: April 4, 2022, 4:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
       > Green Ukraine
       --- End Quote ---
       Green Ukraine (as in the projected state) was directed against
       Russia (the colonizer), not against China (the victim). How does
       that constitute colonialism on par with what Russia was
       originally doing?
       Even more interesting: what would you have liked the local
       Ukrainians to do? Kill themselves in atonement for piggybacking
       on Russian colonialism? Alright, I might see your point,
       however, at the moment the local Ukrainians tried to secede,
       neither China nor even Japan (as far as I am aware) were
       claiming this territory, so the only alternative to Green
       Ukraine would have been continued Russian colonial rule.
       Last but not least: who exactly should never be forgiven? Modern
       Ukraine and their citizens? Neither the Ukrainian People's
       Republic, nor Skoropadsky's Hetmanate, nor Petliura's Directory,
       nor the Ukrainian Soviet Republic, nor Nestor Makhno's anarchist
       entity, nor the Kholodny Yar Republic, nor any other (attempted)
       state battling for control of Ukraine proper around that time
       which can be linked to modern Ukraine in at least a geographical
       sense ever claimed that territory. (Heck, most Ukrainians,
       modern ones as well as contemporaries of Green Ukraine, likely
       aren't/weren't even aware it was actually a thing!)
       That leaves you with whatever descendants of the original
       Ukrainian settlers can be found, who seem to be largely absorbed
       into the surrounding Russian population (if not straight up
       extinct), at which point singling them out as "Ukrainians" is
       pretty **** redundant, as you're effectively punishing Russians
       anyway (not that I have a particular problem with that).
       Just to not leave the wrong impression: Outer Manchuria must be
       given back to China and no one else (except maybe Japan, should
       they prove themselves as the better anti-Duginists).
       #Post#: 12485--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Re: Diplomatic decolonization
   DIR By: rp
       Date: April 4, 2022, 5:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Green Ukraine (as in the projected state) was directed against
       Russia (the colonizer), not against China (the victim). How does
       that constitute colonialism on par with what Russia was
       originally doing?
       Even more interesting: what would you have liked the local
       Ukrainians to do? Kill themselves in atonement for piggybacking
       on Russian colonialism? Alright, I might see your point,
       however, at the moment the local Ukrainians tried to secede,
       neither China nor even Japan (as far as I am aware) were
       claiming this territory, so the only alternative to Green
       Ukraine would have been continued Russian colonial rule."
       But did the Ukrainians have the intent of returning the
       territory to it's original owners? If not, then they complicit
       in colonialism as much as anyone else. Although I understand if
       you are suggesting that Green Ukraine would have served as a
       temporary buffer against Russia, with the settlers effectively
       being used as cannon fodder against the Russians, after which
       the Chinese could easily reclaim their territory once the
       Russians/Ukrainian settlers were exhausted from fighting
       (similar to what we are aiming to achieve with Ukraine today).
       I agree though that not all modern day Ukrainians should be held
       responsible for this, so perhaps @90sRetroFan could clarify his
       stance on that.
       #Post#: 12487--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Re: Diplomatic decolonization
   DIR By: guest55
       Date: April 4, 2022, 8:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Past Ukrainian colonialisms aside, I too have noticed that
       several Ukrainian soldiers are much closer to the Aryan
       phenotype than anything I've seen coming out of Russia. The fact
       that Ukraine is also a major cereal crop provider, and one of
       the biggest producers of sunflowers, also makes me see Ukraine
       differently than Russia. Some Ukrainian soldiers have recently
       been stating things such as, "We will never see Russians as our
       brothers ever again!", as well....
       #Post#: 12489--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Re: Diplomatic decolonization
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: April 4, 2022, 9:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Green Ukraine (as in the projected state) was directed against
       Russia (the colonizer), not against China (the victim)."
       Also, Israel was directed against Britain, not against
       Palestine.
       "what would you have liked the local Ukrainians to do? Kill
       themselves in atonement for piggybacking on Russian
       colonialism?"
       Voluntarily refraining from reproducing would be enough.
       "That leaves you with whatever descendants of the original
       Ukrainian settlers can be found, who seem to be largely absorbed
       into the surrounding Russian population (if not straight up
       extinct), at which point singling them out as "Ukrainians" is
       pretty **** redundant"
       Note this:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/msg11491/#msg11491
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/msg12084/#msg12084
       If hypothetically China were to reclaim Outer Manchuria, there
       will doubtless be Chinese Eurocentrists eager to reproduce with
       the present-day Russians there. This can hopefully be countered
       with enough anti-Russian propaganda, but if the Chinese
       Eurocentrists (whom for the sake of argument anti-Russian
       propaganda has convinced to not reproduce with a Russian) then
       encounter present-day Russians who say, "My ancestors were
       Ukrainian!", that could be all it takes to make the Chinese
       Eurocentrists decide to reproduce with them after all. We must
       prepare to counter this also.
       #Post#: 12500--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Re: Diplomatic decolonization
   DIR By: Dazhbog
       Date: April 5, 2022, 5:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
       > Also, Israel was directed against Britain, not against
       Palestine.
       --- End Quote ---
       The thing is that Israel turned on Britain because to my
       knowledge, they went the extra mile in terms of ignobility,
       perpetrating colonial violence on a scale even the British
       didn't endorse. Was that the case with Green Ukraine as well?
       --- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
       > Voluntarily refraining from reproducing would be enough.
       --- End Quote ---
       Keep in mind that I was talking about the time Green Ukraine
       actually tried to secede, when neither China (nor Japan as
       another local anti-colonial power) seemed to be interested in
       seizing it (to my knowledge; I might be mistaken of course). If
       you would have preferred the local Ukrainians to voluntarily go
       extinct at that time, would you then have preferred Russian
       colonial rule to continue instead?
       --- Quote from: rp link ---
       > If not, then they complicit in colonialism as much as anyone
       else.
       --- End Quote ---
       To be clear, I'm not trying to deny or downplay the Green
       Ukrainians' complicity. I'm just interested in knowing whether
       90sRF would have preferred Russian colonial rule to continue
       instead.
       --- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
       > If hypothetically China were to reclaim Outer Manchuria, there
       will doubtless be Chinese Eurocentrists eager to reproduce with
       the present-day Russians there. This can hopefully be countered
       with enough anti-Russian propaganda, but if the Chinese
       Eurocentrists (whom for the sake of argument anti-Russian
       propaganda has convinced to not reproduce with a Russian) then
       encounter present-day Russians who say, "My ancestors were
       Ukrainian!", that could be all it takes to make the Chinese
       Eurocentrists decide to reproduce with them after all. We must
       prepare to counter this also.
       --- End Quote ---
       Fair enough.
       *****************************************************
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